Charlie Activates the National Gaurd

How do you define armed? Does carrying an empty weapon with no ammo on the soldiers person armed?

Unlike police, it is not about everyone going home at night regardless of the cost in human life. It is not uncommon for national guard members to be ordered to carry unloaded firearms (with no ammo in possession) as a symbol of authority rather than an actual defensive tool. Someone in the guard please correct me if I am wrong about this.
As I said have been activated probably 8 tiles for natural disasters. Never once been issued a weapon .....loaded or unloaded. Only issuing of weapons for a disaster was the Springfield tornado and it was just mp doing presence patrols and they were loaded side arms.

As far as carrying an unloaded weapon......only time I ever did that was for training or transport from armory to the base to use when we got there. Was NEVER told to carry an unloaded weapon for ""posture" or to show "authority". Now....there are threat levels taken into consideration for missions with weapons. No mag in weapon. Mag in weapon not chambered.....and loaded and chambered. Take it from me ......if you see troops out there doing actual disaster relief missions (not training) and they have a rifle or side arm there is ammo present.

My experience runs 25 years in the national guard. 12 enlisted and made e6 then the rest as an officer and retired as a major. Held company command as a captain for 2 different units total time as company commander was 4.5 years. I'm fairly knowledgeable lol.
 
Let us also not forget that Pvt. Snuffy is earning your hard earned tax dollars to hand out supplies, filter water and curb stomp you; otherwise, he may be home bored because his job laid him off for the time being. So that's good, right?[pot]
 
Let us also not forget that Pvt. Snuffy is earning your hard earned tax dollars to hand out supplies, filter water and curb stomp you; otherwise, he may be home bored because his job laid him off for the time being. So that's good, right?[pot]
State active duty for disaster relief doesn't pay shit. It's a totally different system if pay......they don't get full pay and benefits for state active duty. Last time I had access to the system an e4 or below was $110 a day for state duty and a day is 24 hours.
 
What's your bet? Feds know about an asteroid? Aliens coming? Super-volcano about to erupt? o_O I don't think this is a drill for anything, but you can be certain that officials are taking notes and will be conducting very in-depth analysis to take away lessons learned from this.

I'm thinking aliens...
 
How do you define armed? Does carrying an empty weapon with no ammo on the soldiers person armed?

Unlike police, it is not about everyone going home at night regardless of the cost in human life. It is not uncommon for national guard members to be ordered to carry unloaded firearms (with no ammo in possession) as a symbol of authority rather than an actual defensive tool. Someone in the guard please correct me if I am wrong about this.

I cant really add to what was already mentioned because those are the facts. What youre suggesting hasnt been the case since I enlisted in 2005. If we're issued weapons and ammo on state land it was to protect property from looting and for deterance.
 
State active duty for disaster relief doesn't pay shit. It's a totally different system if pay......they don't get full pay and benefits for state active duty. Last time I had access to the system an e4 or below was $110 a day for state duty and a day is 24 hours.

Right. No BAH. But to Joe it's still money and healthcare for his family in the mean time.

Edit: i may be wrong on the BAH, its been awhile.
 
This is very logical. 7 days ago Trump declared a national emergency, since then the virus has exploded and shows no signs of slowing until half the country is infected. When college aged druggies are ignoring the social distancing calls and the hardest hit nations in Europe are in lockdown then it's obvious we will be in lockdown soon.

Can't initiate a lockdown without enforcement and the military/guard is who will enforce the lockdowns, but they had to be called up, outfitted, given ROE's and training on what to expect and how to react, and then all the equipment and men have to be put in position.

California has a lot of bases, lot of soldiers already stationed there, local and county departments already have the surplus APC's from the Iraq War (as do many departments in the US thanks to the militarization of police here) so them declaring lockdown first was not a surprise, but it really should have been NYC to be first given they are the hottest hot zone in the US right now.

Can't say it will be a full nationwide quarantine, no need for it to be, but the highly populated areas, all towns/cities with more than 10k people, yes.

BTW, it's not going to be 2 weeks, that's just the number people are being told because 2 weeks isn't so bad. It'll be a minimum of 4 weeks, but we won't be told until a few days before the 2 week point that it will be extended.

Biggest cities will be locked down 6 weeks. So many people, can't risk someone who gets symptoms 3 weeks into the lockdown, thinks it's a common cold, then spreads it after lockdown is over and back to square one.
 
I cant really add to what was already mentioned because those are the facts. What youre suggesting hasnt been the case since I enlisted in 2005. If we're issued weapons and ammo on state land it was to protect property from looting and for deterance.
I was thinking of when acting Gov Swift activated the NG at logan to do ID checks. From the reports I read, I think the guardspeople stationed at the airport were wearing unloaded M9s but, those reports could have been wrong.

Was the guard authorized to shoot to stop looting? That's the only way a loaded gun would offer protection.

My thanks to those in the BTDT group for the additional info.
 
Right. No BAH. But to Joe it's still money and healthcare for his family in the mean time.
State active duty doesn't pay health care. Listen carefully to what I just told you. It's not "lack of bah". It's a totally different pay system. Falls under MEMA. They get $110 a day paid by the Commonwealth of mass not department of defense.
 
I was thinking of when acting Gov Swift activated the NG at logan to do ID checks. From the reports I read, I think the guardspeople stationed at the airport were wearing unloaded M9s.

Was the guard authorized to shoot to stop looting? That's the only way a loaded gun would offer protection.
The mp units in Springfield had m9 to protect LIFE (theirs or others) not property.
 
State active duty doesn't pay health care. Listen carefully to what I just told you. It's not "lack of bah". It's a totally different pay system. Falls under MEMA. They get $110 a day paid by the Commonwealth of mass not department of defense.

Got it. I was CTARNG so it may be completey different wity regard to pay. It's been awhile since I was last activated (Sandy) so Ive forgotten what LES's looked like.
 
Got it. I was CTARNG so it may be completey different wity regard to pay. It's been awhile since I was last activated (Sandy) so Ive forgotten what LES's looked like.
Last time I was activated we were not even getting an Les for state active duty. It was a live check from the state of mass.
 
The mp units in Springfield had m9 to protect LIFE (theirs or others) not property.

I was unfortunately involved in the 2004 Boston DNC run up. Even as a young lad i knew it was sorta f***ed up regarding the states response. MPs (I wasn't one) did carry M9's with ammo in classic not chambered fashion. We had M16A4's but we didnt have them with us, as we were dragged though ~10 days of the MP riot control class, which was super lame and not at all enjoyable. The state put a lot of effort into demonizing and dehumanizing protesters and "young people," while failing to notice that the majority of soldiers were in fact the same age as the evil demographic - and none of us knew what the f*** the state was all worried about. This was the event with the "free speech" zone they had all the protesters packed into.

Looking back this was probably an overreaction by the state to things they found online, specifically message boards and Myspace. Social media was brand spanking new and boy oh boy did the old timers have zero idea how to navigate it.

As for carrying weapons for show of force, I wouldn't allow it if I was commander and the reason is simple: the odds of a weapon being lost or stolen are high. Weapons to the majority of soldiers specifically in the guard are just extra shit that needs to be carried around. And they get misplaced just like that. Theres a reason M9's are on a leash [rofl]. We had a guy drop an M16A4 with an acog on it into a f***ing river somehow while deployed. They somehow got it back, but thats an example of the clock work that is losing things.

I've also seen other things that need not go missing go missing, like AN/CYZ-10's. The shit that fills the radio with encryption. Not only are they quite expensive, they are very sensitive items and our pals over at the PRC would love to get their hands on as many as possible. That wasn't a fun search. Left in a shipping container I believe.

Was the guard authorized to shoot to stop looting? That's the only way a loaded gun would offer protection.

it depends on the ROE. I've had ROE while deployed that authorized lethal force to stop attacks on protected property. I don't think we will see that here domestically, and if we do we wont be on NES talking about it while its a thing as we'll be preoccupied.
 
If they are armed I'm 99.9% sure it's for force protection.....not the offensive of searching house to house for guns.

Agreed, but
...Only issuing of weapons for a disaster was the Springfield tornado and it was just mp doing presence patrols and they were loaded side arms.
....

That’s not force protection. You said 99% chance if they’re carrying, it will be for force protection. But then you say the only time you can remember when MA NG we’re armed in a disaster was to conduct presence patrols. Those don’t jive. I’m not saying they’ll be going door to door like in New Orleans, but presence patrols are an escalation and projection of power. It’s not like providing security for food stores or logistics distribution points.
 
The mp units in Springfield had m9 to protect LIFE (theirs or others) not property.

This is where 'normies' get jammed up.

Question: MP tries to stop a looter, then gets assaulted. What is the crime?





Answer: Assault on the MP, grievous bodily harm, deadly force to stop the assault on the MP would then be in order. With the obvious "depends" clause.
 
Agreed, but


That’s not force protection. You said 99% chance if they’re carrying, it will be for force protection. But then you say the only time you can remember when MA NG we’re armed in a disaster was to conduct presence patrols. Those don’t jive. I’m not saying they’ll be going door to door like in New Orleans, but presence patrols are an escalation and projection of power. It’s not like providing security for food stores or logistics distribution points.
I was privy to the orders the mp units received in Springfield. They were there for patrols to deter looting. Their side arms were issued to protect only life .....not property.
 
It's been over twenty years since I was in the NG, and it was in another (and FAR different) state. Things have changed, clearly.

So @whacko, while Joe is activated on state orders, is he subject to UCMJ or state law? Or some weirdo hybrid? Like, to what extent is he protected in case he has to defend himself against someone?
 
It's been over twenty years since I was in the NG, and it was in another (and FAR different) state. Things have changed, clearly.

So @whacko, while Joe is activated on state orders, is he subject to UCMJ or state law? Or some weirdo hybrid? Like, to what extent is he protected in case he has to defend himself against someone?
It's a hybrid. Very vaguely
 
I was privy to the orders the mp units received in Springfield. They were there for patrols to deter looting. Their side arms were issued to protect only life .....not property.

I’m just saying that presence patrols are not a force protection task. If you’re saying that firearm issuance for protection while in engaging in non-force protection tasks is force protection, then carrying firearms while confiscating civilian firearms would also be just force protection.

Firearms use by NG in the US would always be for protection, it’s not like they’re doing lethal targeting, setting up small kill teams or ambushes.

The decision to issue firearms is based on the level of assessed risk. Presence patrols to prevent looting is an elevated risk, so they were issued firearms in a rare decision. Therefore, issuance of firearms here would also be a rare decision and an indication of intended missions. Missions with higher risk to Soldiers.
 
I've been saying this for years, Combat Troops do NOT make good cops. Been saying it since we deployed them on the SW border. Unless the 'rules' change, don't send them. They are not law enforcement. Maybe MP's, but from friends in the .mil, they said to never trust MPs. [pot]
Spot on .
 
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