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CMP 1911 News
- Thread starter SPO38
- Start date
Sad to say but banned in MA and C&R FFL is of no help here.
How are 1911's banned in MA?
Whuuuuuut? Just when I thought I've heard the latest idiotic MA gun law.....I shouldn't be surprised though. I know pistols have to meet MA's inspection or "safety" criteria, but how in the hell are you going to say a S&W GI 1911 is GTG, then in the next sentence justify with a straight face that a Colt GI 1911 in a no go? I just can't comprehend that.
45collector
NES Member
I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Please help me understand this:
Colt 1911's are not "banned" in MA. They are just not MA compliant and thus most dealers won't transfer one. OK there's that, but all these CMP 1911's (whether they're Colt, Remington Rand, US&S, Ithaca or Singer) are all WWII and prior manufactured guns. Why then, is a C&R of no help here? Is there some rule with the CMP where they won't ship handguns directly to non-dealer FFL's? Has the CMP ever sold handguns in a program like this in the first place?
Dennis in MA
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Interesting. I don't need one, but would get one if they were the right price. . . . provided they are available in MA.
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As far as I know the CMP has never sold handguns but I could be wrong.
45collector
NES Member
I searched quickly but couldn't find that info. That settles that. What I wonder is, could you just have an out of state FFL get one in, and then ship it to you on your C&R? Then of course you'll probably be paying a markup, handling/ paperwork fee, and shipping.
The consensus in the other thread seems to be that that is one solution.
Also, the law that will allow MA 01FFL's to transfer C&R eligible firearms to 03 FFL's goes into effect on 01/01/2021.
That's 3 1/2 years away, considering that the CMP hasn't even taken delivery of any of these guns, and it's going to take
them at least a year or two to train their armorers and inspectors, sort through and grade them all, they could be
coming on the market at just about the same time as the law goes into effect.
Theres also something like 100,000 of them up for grabs, and they're only going to be releasing 10,000 per
year, there might be little to no problem getting one... just a matter of having to wait, and be willing to pay
whatever their asking. [sad2]
Not that Colt (or other mfr) are banned in MA, just that the way CMP is structured to do this deal (laid out above, after your post), they aren't on the EOPS List and thus MA Dealers will not be able to purchase them (CMP won't ship them to them). The C&R exemption probably won't help as they will likely be sold out before 1/1/2021.
Strong belief is that they will be well North of $1K each and when you add up all the work-around stuff to get one into MA, you are likely to be into it for $1500 or more. Worth it???
See Post #2 here.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/104-EVERY-SHOOTER-Should-Get-a-C-amp-R-FFL!
The 2014 law allows MA Dealers to transfer C&R eligible guns to MA C&R FFL holders, but the enactment date was intentionally pushed out 6 years.
Pricey and beat to shit I'm sure.
How do you think it got pushed out that far?
Seriously a member of NES pushed for that exemption and former Sen. James Timilty (D) had it added. At the last minute enough objections were raised by legistraitors that they modified it to push it out 6 yrs. No bets on what happens to it further down the road.
For those that don't follow CMP actions closely:
If CMP is of the belief that the 1911s aren't on the EOPS List (they aren't) and can't be legally transferred in MA, based on CMP's past behavior, they won't ship any to MA FFLs, period.
And if they limit quantity ordered, most non-MA FFLs won't blow it on a favor for a Mass inmate (to do the FFL to MA FFL transfer of frame work-around).
If CMP is of the belief that the 1911s aren't on the EOPS List (they aren't) and can't be legally transferred in MA, based on CMP's past behavior, they won't ship any to MA FFLs, period.
And if they limit quantity ordered, most non-MA FFLs won't blow it on a favor for a Mass inmate (to do the FFL to MA FFL transfer of frame work-around).
correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be a similar process as if buying a Garand from them with one important difference. They will not ship it to your door, they will send it to an FFL who will do the 4473 and transfer it to you.
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I'm 100% certain that they won't. They wouldn't even sell pre-ban (WWII vintage IIRC) M1 Carbine mags to Mass residents when they got a boatload in. We went round and round with Orest on the CMP Forum about this back then but he wouldn't bend. I'm sure that the new director won't either, probably not even when 2021 rolls around (if any are left).
You are correct. It will be like buying a non-C&R gun from gun broker for those in Free America.
FYI - CMP was selling / shipping to MA pre-ban M1 Carbine mags (CMP# PS103) in July 2015. I had a short email exchange with CMP on applicability of the MGLs to the sale of pre-ban mags to LTC holders and they had responded positively. Has their position changed since then?
45collector
NES Member
Just because you are most likely too lazy to actually go look it up yourself, the "pre-98" exemption only applies when it can be proven that the gun was already legally owned in MA before that date. You are thinking that any gun that was made pre-98 should be eligible to be transferred by an FFL01 to an LTC holder, but that is not how the regulations are written. However, there are some FFL's that interpret it that way, though they are few and far between.
Anyhow, Len, to answer your previous question, no I highly doubt it would be worth it to go the "out of state FFL transfer to my FFL03 door-to-door" if indeed these CMP 1911's are going to be priced where everyone is guessing. You would be better off browsing Gunbroker or Gunboards and looking for a fairly priced gun. Finding stellar deals on old 1911's is a rarity these days. I kick myself eternally for selling my only WWII era 1911A1 to fund other projects years back. A '43 Remington Rand in very good condition. I hate myself for selling it. However I did find a very decent deal on a 1964 Colt commercial a few years back while browsing Gunbroker in the middle of the night. I hit "buy it now" without a second thought.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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It might have been before that or it could have been another item. I haven't been following their forum ever since I ordered .22LR ammo 3+ years ago with no delivery in sight (eventually they did make an offer months ago, different thread here). Perhaps they finally relented, but I don't see that happening wrt the 1911s. We'll see eventually.
Dennis in MA
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OK, what about this work-around. . . . . .
You need to provide it to an 01 dealer. But once it's in the 01 dealer hands, it's a C&R peese. Could you list an out-of-MA dealer than have it shipped on to you afterwards? Or have a buddy in a far far far far far free'er state buy as many as he could then trade you for it after, Cruffler-style?
Again - if these are going to be $1,000 to start, I'm gonna pass. History or no. I'd rather spend that $ on a cool 03A3 instead. (Plus I've got a goodly amount of surplus US made CMP 30-06.)
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LOL
I was on that list. I took myself off of it when I got a two-fer on 2 different Walmart opening-days within months of eachother. It was cheaper than the CMP price. (Granted, range ammo vs. match ammo. But I'm more of a ranger than a matcher.)
I want to say at some point they told me the price was going to go up substantially as well. LOL
You need to provide it to an 01 dealer. But once it's in the 01 dealer hands, it's a C&R peese. Could you list an out-of-MA dealer than have it shipped on to you afterwards? Or have a buddy in a far far far far far free'er state buy as many as he could then trade you for it after, Cruffler-style?
Again - if these are going to be $1,000 to start, I'm gonna pass. History or no. I'd rather spend that $ on a cool 03A3 instead. (Plus I've got a goodly amount of surplus US made CMP 30-06.)
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LOL
I was on that list. I took myself off of it when I got a two-fer on 2 different Walmart opening-days within months of eachother. It was cheaper than the CMP price. (Granted, range ammo vs. match ammo. But I'm more of a ranger than a matcher.)
I want to say at some point they told me the price was going to go up substantially as well. LOL
