Combination Trigger Locks - Any good?

[Rockrivr1]

My Dad is getting of an age where he seems to have issues with his hand coordination when dealing with small things. After watching him wrestle with with his keyed trigger lock for a few minutes I'm thinking of picking him up a few trigger locks that use a combination instead of a key. I'm thinking that will make it easier for him.

Has anyone used these? If so, were they easier to use then the keyed version? Does anyone know a place that sells them? I could order them online, but I could buy him another lock with the price I would pay for shipping.

Thanks for the help

 

[Mr Weebles]

I have some and they're handy since you can set the combo to the same numbers for all of them.

However, if you're Dad is having trouble with hand-eye coordination he may have some issues seeing or manipulating the numbers.

 

[dixidawg]

That is all I use now. They are great. You can set the combo to whatever you want. I have mine all set the same. What prompted me was I went on a hunting trip and when I got there I had the wrong key. Bummer. Had to break the lock off. Wasn't fun.

I got mine on eBay, and they are all Master brand.

 

[Bear]

Personally I think they are great. You can usually set your own combination for them so they really save a lot of aggravation simply by virtue of only having to memorize a combination or two, rather than keep track of a bunch of keys. As far as I know, the meager protection they offer is no less or more than that of keyed locks (basically enough to keep an extra barrier against young children, or satisfy the law for storage or travel purposes)......However, If your Dad's issue is with his eye sight, they may not be the answer. Those little numbered dials are pretty small and close together......

 

[Scrivener]

As far as I know, the meager protection they offer is no less or more than that of keyed locks (basically enough to keep an extra barrier against young children, or satisfy the law for storage or travel purposes)......

WRONG! Trigger locks do NOT meet the statutory requirements for "travel purposes." Transportation requires a locked case or car trunk.

 

[Bear]

I was under the impression that enclosed in a soft case that is unlockable, with a trigger lock on the firearm, satifies the law as written

 

[KMaurer]

I was under the impression that enclosed in a soft case that is unlockable, with a trigger lock on the firearm, satifies the law as written

You impression was incorrect.

Ken

 

[dixidawg]

OK, I will admit, I've always been a bit confused by this. I'm assuming that this is the applicable law:

Chapter 140: Section 131C. Carrying of firearms in a vehicle


Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any state or the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or of the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to carry or possess the weapon so carried or possessed and is acting within the scope of his duties.

(e) A conviction of a violation of this section shall be reported forthwith by the court or magistrate to the licensing authority who shall immediately revoke the card or license of the person so convicted. No new such card or license may be issued to any such person until one year after the date of revocation.


Let's suppose I have a Class A, and I am headed to the range with my Remington 700 (non high capacity rifle).

Where in that law does it say how I have to transport it?

 

[M1911]

I was under the impression that enclosed in a soft case that is unlockable, with a trigger lock on the firearm, satifies the law as written

Nope. See MGL Chapter 140 Section 131c, which reads, in part:

Chapter 140: Section 131C. Carrying of firearms in a vehicle

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131c.htm

A couple notes about trigger locks. I was speaking with a fellow club member last weekend. He lost the key to his trigger lock a while back. It took him 5 minutes to drill it out. A friend lost the combination to his combination trigger lock last summer. It took me 15 minutes to break the combination.

In contrast, see MGL Chapter 140 Section 131l, which reads, in part

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Trigger locks meet the statute for storage but not for transport. Does that make sense? No, of course not. It was written by MA legislators so what did you expect? Logic?

 

[LoginName]

I have all combo locks set to the same number.

Set them to 000, and lock them at 001 or 100.

One flick of the finger and they're off.

Put a dab of dayglo or glow in the dark paint on the magic dial if poor eyesight is a problem.

 

[M1911]

Where in that law does it say how I have to transport it?

Section A does not apply:

No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license

Under MGL, your Remington is NOT a firearm. It is a rifle. See MGL Ch 140 S121 for the definition of the word "firearm" under most of the MGL.

Section B does not apply for the same reason.

Section C does not apply since a Remington 700 is bolt action and therefore is not a large-capacity rifle. So, theoretically, you don't need to lock it up while transporting it in your car. That said, I doubt most patrolmen understand that fine point of the law.

 

[dixidawg]

Furthermore, Chapter 140: Section 121 defines a Firearm:

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.


So in effect, this requirement in Chapter 140: Section 131C. Carrying of firearms in a vehicle:

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

would NOT apply to long guns, since a firearm is defined as a pistol, revolver or short barreled rifle?

 

[M1911]

would NOT apply to long guns, since a firearm is defined as a pistol, revolver or short barreled rifle?

Correct. Although I thought there was a law about how guns needed to be cased while being carried on a public way, but I'm unable to find that at the moment.

That said, are you willing to bet your license that a police officer who stops you understands that fine point and is not going to arrest you when he sees your 700 lying in the back seat? You might get turned loose immediately when you got to the station and they realized the import of the law. Or they might not realize it. Or they might just get creative and they'd make something up to charge you with. Either way, it would ruin your whole day.

Of course, IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and "Some arrogant, anonymous dude on an internet forum told me so" is unlikely to impress a judge...

I suggest you get advice from a competent MA attorney familiar with this particular tar pit in the MGL.

 

[dixidawg]

Correct. Although I thought there was a law about how guns needed to be cased while being carried on a public way, but I'm unable to find that at the moment.

That said, are you willing to bet your license that a police officer who stops you understands that fine point and is not going to arrest you when he sees your 700 lying in the back seat? You might get turned loose immediately when you got to the station and they realized the import of the law. Or they might not realize it. Or they might just get creative and they'd make something up to charge you with. Either way, it would ruin your whole day.

Of course, IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and "Some arrogant, anonymous dude on an internet forum told me so" is unlikely to impress a judge...

I suggest you get advice from a competent MA attorney familiar with this particular tar pit in the MGL.

Absolutely agree. I was looking for some clarity. 2 previous posts said that transporting a gun with a trigger lock in a soft case was a no no. As I always had questions around this, I thought I would ask what law prohibited this. So far the answer is none?

 

[Scrivener]

Absolutely agree. I was looking for some clarity. 2 previous posts said that transporting a gun with a trigger lock in a soft case was a no no. As I always had questions around as the statute expressly states,this, I thought I would ask what law prohibited this. So far the answer is none?

HARDLY.

What part of

...shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.

did you not understand?

IF - again, IF - the gun in question is:

1. ANY handgun; or

2. A "large capacity" long arm; then,

a locked CASE or car trunk is required. PERIOD.

Note the complete absence of any reference to a trigger lock.

 

[dixidawg]

IF - again, IF - the gun in question is NOT:

1. ANY handgun; or

2. A "large capacity" long arm; then,


transporting it in a soft case with a trigger lock

WOULD meet the statutory requirements for "travel purposes." and Transportation WOULD NOT require a locked case or car trunk.

No need to be snippy. I'm only asking for clarity of your statement sir.

 

[icyclefar]

I use the combo trigger locks also ...........

The one downside (If you see it that way) is that once you dial them in to open, and set the two parts aside, anyone who picks it up now knows your combination. Depending upon who you travel with, that may or may not be a good thing!

I bought mine on E-Bay, they are "The Club" brand

 

[Scrivener]

IF - again, IF - the gun in question is NOT:

1. ANY handgun; or

2. A "large capacity" long arm; then,


transporting it in a soft case with a trigger lock

WOULD meet the statutory requirements for "travel purposes." and Transportation WOULD NOT require a locked case or car trunk.

No need to be snippy. I'm only asking for clarity of your statement sir.

Really? Because you've done a simply stellar job of missing the point - yet again.

Once MORE:

TRIGGER LOCKS DO NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSPORT.


Put another way, in case that helps, trigger locks are for STORAGE ONLY.

NOW do you get it?

If not, do explain to us the distinction between "travel purposes" and "transportation........"

 

[icyclefar]

So Scriv ..........

What are the transport requirements for a non large capacity long arm?

(you might as well close the loop)

 

[LoginName]

I use the combo trigger locks also ...........

The one downside (If you see it that way) is that once you dial them in to open, and set the two parts aside, anyone who picks it up now knows your combination. Depending upon who you travel with, that may or may not be a good thing!

I bought mine on E-Bay, they are "The Club" brand

Matters little.

Anyone with a pair of vice grips can remove it just as quickly and just as easily.

 

[icyclefar]

Matters little.

Anyone with a pair of vice grips can remove it just as quickly and just as easily.

A paper clip or a small screw driver works equally as well, but thats another story.

 

[dixidawg]

So are you saying that someone with a Class A transporting a NON large capacity rifle in a soft case with a trigger lock DO NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSPORT.?

Again, I'm just trying to understand your statement earlier:

"WRONG! Trigger locks do NOT meet the statutory requirements for "travel purposes." Transportation requires a locked case or car trunk. "

I understand that statement does apply in some circumstances. I am trying to understand whether or not it applies to ALL circumstances. Please help this mere peon grasp the finer points of the law.

 

[Scrivener]

So Scriv ..........

What are the transport requirements for a non large capacity long arm?

(you might as well close the loop)

Since they are wholly absent from the statutory criteria, NONE!

When my trunk is filled with all those statutorily-required guns, I throw the -'03 or Garand on the back seat. Of course, I'm going directly to/from the range, which is in my town, so my exposure to cops who don't know the law is, shall we say, minimal.

I don't recommend it to those not as well situated. You might want to have a copy of the statute in the glove box, as well as the guns in cases, even if unlocked. As was noted, there are cops who don't know the law - and some who just don't care.

 

[zenprop]

This was on the mass.gov public safety section in regard to transporting:

"Q: Do I need to lock my non-large capacity rifles and shotguns in a case while transporting them in a vehicle?

A: No. They must be transported unloaded, but are not required to be in a locked case while transporting."

Full link here: http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopster...&b=terminalcontent&f=chsb_frb_faqs&csid=Eeops

 

[icyclefar]

Give the man a cookie!

 

[Mr Weebles]

When I lived in Mass I transported ALL of my longarms and handguns to and from the range in locked containers and equipped with trigger locks.

Why take a chance?

 

[Reptile]

Is this ok?

Can I used a case that has a combination lock for transport?

 

[Scrivener]

When I lived in Mass I transported ALL of my longarms and handguns to and from the range in locked containers and equipped with trigger locks.

Why take a chance?

Indeed.

While the gun rack in the truck may look trick, there is much to be said for stealth.

Same reason I take the engine and sport model tags off my cars as soon as I get them home. Let the losers find out the hard way!

 

[icyclefar]

Can I used a case that has a combination lock for transport?

Yes .......... as long as it's locked

 

[M1911]

Can I used a case that has a combination lock for transport?

Yes.