Combo Guns

[tuna]

I've always loved the style of European drillings. Preferably with 16ga over some type of .30(ish) caliber rifle. They just seem like a well designed gun built for a great purpose.

For a while I had a Savage 24. It was light and handy, and a fun gun during bird / small game season, but was really limited by being a .410.

Over the years I've seen a few combo guns along the lines of the Savage 24 that were "real guns". 20 and 12 gauges underneath .223 and .30-30. These are rare as hen's teeth, and when I see them they're usually priced out of reality for what they are.

Yesterday, I saw a new production (Chiappa?) .22/.410 in the LGS. Again, a cute gun - but why so underpowered? I'd gladly trade away my repeating shotguns and rifles for a decent combo gun that would work on game up to deer ethically. (Yes, you can kill a deer with a .410 slug, but I don't want to.) I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Sure, they'll never be as popular as bolt guns or ARs, but I bet they'd sell very well among people who don't feel the need for multiple rounds in the gun. Plus, you can still enjoy small game while having a round ready in case a deer is spotted.

Why don't they make these combos in real calibers? It can't be that much more expensive to treat a receiver for .223 or .308 instead of .22, can it? It can't be that difficult to regulate the two barrels. The shotgun at shotgun ranges should be pretty much on with wherever you sight the rifle, right? I get the difficulty of regulating two rifle barrels, but this should be a snap.

 

[Quantavious G]

there's only one caliber - .40

everything else is superfluous.

 

[Boghog1]

NEF used to produce a 12ga/44mag combo but you could only run one barrel at a time, I tried to find one maybe 10 years ago but the FFL had no luck. I thought it would be a fantastic gun for hunting in New England

 

[SDG]

I have some shotgun adapters that slip into a 12G over under. 44Mag, 30/30 and 45LC and 22lr on the bottom. Pretty accurate out to 100 yards.

 

[Stape]

My guess is that sales declined to the point of it not being profitable.

Also, most people that go hunting, go hunting for a particular game animal and carry accordingly.

Sure it makes perfect sense for a utilitarian purpose of only affording one gun and going afield to feed the family with whatever you can, but that scenario just doesn't embody most sportsman today.

Just my .02.

I like those guns myself and appreciate them, and I agree they are priced fairly high for what they are.

Or maybe they're not, as they get scooped up pretty quick when they do surface.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

German and Austrian drillings come in cartridges like 16 + 16 + 8x57JRS because they use the rifle cartridge to shoot black grouse or chamois or deer at longer range than shotshells would allow. There's a lot of mountain hunting there. And while there are smaller rifle cartridges used in German and Austrian drillings, it's usually something that can at least humanely kill a deer.

That kind of hunting doesn't exist here in numbers enough to justify actual customers not just buying German and Austrian guns. If someone actually wants a drilling, they'll buy an imported gun. The market for both 16-gauge and 8x57JRS (or other Euro rimmed rifle cartridges) is basically dead; why would a US gun company put two dead cartridges together in one expensive, super niche gun, that very few will buy?

If you want a drilling, pony up the cash for a quality import.

 

[tuna]

I'm not suggesting companies start making drillings. I get that they are high quality guns and they are priced accordingly.

My dream is a simple O/U that has two decent cartridges. A ton of companies make new .22/.410 (Chiappa, M6 scout, Savage 42) so why not up the ante and put out something useful?

 

[Sparkey]

I have a Savage 22mag over 410
And a 30/30 over 20 gauge I like for the fact if I am going for a casual walk at camp in the Adirondacks I can kill grouse along the log road and if happen upon a buck I have the 30-30 for serious deer hunting I grab the BLR in 308

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I'm not suggesting companies start making drillings. I get that they are high quality guns and they are priced accordingly.

My dream is a simple O/U that has two decent cartridges. A ton of companies make new .22/.410 (Chiappa, M6 scout, Savage 42) so why not up the ante and put out something useful?

Because in the US, .22/.410 has a purpose for small game and varmint. Or, .22 RF Mag + .410. A lot of states don't even allow rifles for deer and such hunting, like in southern NH, Mass, RI, etc.

If the market existed, the guns would too.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

The two barrel m24 is a nice little rabbit gun if you find one with properly regulated barrels. It's a pretty expensive task to hand tweek two barrels to hit the same point and Savage didn't always get it right. My last M24 shot like a cross eyed drunk. Real drillings, (drilling means triple in German), are even harder to regulate due to the 3 bbls.

 

[tuna]

I have a Savage 22mag over 410
And a 30/30 over 20 gauge I like for the fact if I am going for a casual walk at camp in the Adirondacks I can kill grouse along the log road and if happen upon a buck I have the 30-30 for serious deer hunting I grab the BLR in 308 View attachment 538791

This is perfect for me. I don't do "serious" deer hunting, and a single shot shotgun is perfect for small game. During the season when they overlap, having the extra 30-30 barrel would give me a decent range for a deer. But for me, deer hunting is usually an armed walk, where I wish I had my shotgun for the small game I see.

This year, maybe I'll let the kids do the deer hunting and I'll just take the shotgun.

Unless you're willing to trade? I've got a JM 336 or a Sweet 16 - take your pick.

 

[Sparkey]

This is perfect for me. I don't do "serious" deer hunting, and a single shot shotgun is perfect for small game. During the season when they overlap, having the extra 30-30 barrel would give me a decent range for a deer. But for me, deer hunting is usually an armed walk, where I wish I had my shotgun for the small game I see.

This year, maybe I'll let the kids do the deer hunting and I'll just take the shotgun.

Unless you're willing to trade? I've got a JM 336 or a Sweet 16 - take your pick.

Ya sorry no trades this was one of my Grail guns and will be passed on to my son. The pop up on Gun broker from time to time $600-$800 price range the 222 over 20 gauge show up more then the 30-30.

 

[Feral]

I have a couple of Savage 24s.
357/20Ga
22/20Ga
fun to shoot with newbies.
Nice to know I'm not the only one on this forum the appreciate them.
NFS....ever!!

 

[greencobra]

....so why not up the ante and put out something useful?

honestly, you're the only person i've heard of that is asking for something like this in the states. i'm sure there are more who long for this type of firearm in more potent calibers than .22/.410 but just not vocal about it. for fun, i'd shoot henry an email. of all the firearm manufacturers, they seem the most open about listening to customers. not their style, but you never know how that dude anthony imperato would react to the idea. hey, i'm just thinking out loud again....

 

[HorizontalHunter]

This is perfect for me. I don't do "serious" deer hunting, and a single shot shotgun is perfect for small game. During the season when they overlap, having the extra 30-30 barrel would give me a decent range for a deer. But for me, deer hunting is usually an armed walk, where I wish I had my shotgun for the small game I see.

This year, maybe I'll let the kids do the deer hunting and I'll just take the shotgun.

Unless you're willing to trade? I've got a JM 336 or a Sweet 16 - take your pick.

In Massachusetts the seasons don’t overlap and yes I realize you are in NH. Everything except the recent expansion of the bear season is closed during deer gun season.

I have always felt the same about the utility of the double guns and wou.d love a good European Drillings but they are too spendy for the use that they would get here in the PRM.

I had no idea that Savage made a 30-30 ofer 20g combo and now I will have to keep my eyes open for one.

Thanks for the info @Sparkey. How does it shoot? POA vs POI?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Sparkey]

In Massachusetts the seasons don’t overlap and yes I realize you are in NH. Everything except the recent expansion of the bear season is closed during deer gun season.

I have always felt the same about the utility of the double guns and wou.d love a good European Drillings but they are too spendy for the use that they would get here in the PRM.

I had no idea that Savage made a 30-30 ofer 20g combo and now I will have to keep my eyes open for one.

Thanks for the info @Sparkey. How does it shoot? POA vs POI?

Thanks,

Bob

So shotgun on the bottom takes some getting used to also rifle sights make it different then traditional bead on regular shotgun you need to aim higher I float the front blade sight above the bird and will be on target. The 30-30 I had to bottom out the rear and am still a bit high at 100 I would need a higher front sight but it works ok for now.
here is a site with good info on Savage 24's

Savage24 Forum | Savage24.com

The main forum.

savage24forum.boards.net

 

[AHM]

Is there some Alaska market (for the beefier calibers)?

If so, it would have to be a weight/bulk issue.

I don't imagine Alaskans are rich, but I fancy
that they're too based to skinflint on outdoors guns.
(Not a Parlour Rifle joke. I mean non-target/self-defense).

 

[Mark from MA]

In Massachusetts the seasons don’t overlap and yes I realize you are in NH. Everything except the recent expansion of the bear season is closed during deer gun season.

I have always felt the same about the utility of the double guns and wou.d love a good European Drillings but they are too spendy for the use that they would get here in the PRM.

I had no idea that Savage made a 30-30 ofer 20g combo and now I will have to keep my eyes open for one.

Thanks for the info @Sparkey. How does it shoot? POA vs POI?

Thanks,

Bob

A Drilling would be well suited for Maine, but honestly, I see a lot of guys that are deer hunting northern Maine shoot grouse with their scoped rifle in the head. While that is a waste of a good sized bullet, its almost better than shooting them with a shotgun because they ruin no meat. Most of these guys are either standing or walking along and aren't shooting flushed birds. Same thing with rabbit.

And a lot of the locals with no dog, just road hunt with a .22 for grouse. You can do that when they aren't totally frickin crazy scared like down here.

 

[whacko]

A few years ago I saw a 7.62x39 over 20g which I thought was cool. I believe the manufacturer said "sauer" but I remember specifically it said made in west Germany so well before the wall came down. It was on the rack at kittery trading post and I almost took it home but didn't talk myself into it.

 

[Yazz]

I have a Governor revolver does that count?

 

[MisterHappy]

German and Austrian drillings come in cartridges like 16 + 16 + 8x57JRS because they use the rifle cartridge to shoot black grouse or chamois or deer at longer range than shotshells would allow. There's a lot of mountain hunting there. And while there are smaller rifle cartridges used in German and Austrian drillings, it's usually something that can at least humanely kill a deer.

That kind of hunting doesn't exist here in numbers enough to justify actual customers not just buying German and Austrian guns. If someone actually wants a drilling, they'll buy an imported gun. The market for both 16-gauge and 8x57JRS (or other Euro rimmed rifle cartridges) is basically dead; why would a US gun company put two dead cartridges together in one expensive, super niche gun, that very few will buy?

If you want a drilling, pony up the cash for a quality import.

This

I still have home-made 8x57 cartridges that say, "30-40 KRAG" on the headstamp, as my dad fireformed brass for his drilling, back before the stuff was available in the USA

It's like any "All-purpose tool:" it may do the jobs, but not as well as a specialized tool.

After my dad, hunting in NH, got his deer with a 94 Winchester, or a .30-06 Remington, he'd take the "Triple" out for grouse, with the rifle barrel loaded "In case [he] ran across a bear."

Never did. But he once took two partridges with a .30-'06, by shooting them through the necks!

 

[northny]

The only time I hunted the northern woods of Maine, our guide carried a 12 ga / 30-30 combo. Not only did he have the largest deer mount in the camp ( son of owner). Almost every day he had a fresh killed partridge to cook for lunch.

A decade ago I passes on a 12 gauge / .308 combo in the used rack at Reilly’s. Went back the next week to grab it and it was gone. still kicking myself

the best medicine For porcupines chewing on your camp is the savage .22/410. Both my neighbors have them. On the ground the get the .22 / climbing the tree the .410.

 

[AHM]

A Drilling would be well suited for Maine, ...

Well, Maine is kind of "Alaska lite"; so there's that.

 

[ccm75]

When I was a kid in the 70's I had the Savage .22 over .410. Made in MA.
It belonged to my uncle, the selector switch was a little funky but a cool gun. I carried it on my trap line using the .22 to dispatch and the .410 for the occasional grouse (shoot & miss), pheasant or rabbit....My uncle eventually reclaimed it and apparently sold it as I recently inherited his long guns and that piece and a M1 carbine were missing from the inventory and crossed off his handwritten list....

 

[MisterHappy]

When I was a kid in the 70's I had the Savage .22 over .410. Made in MA.
It belonged to my uncle, the selector switch was a little funky but a cool gun. I carried it on my trap line using the .22 to dispatch and the .410 for the occasional grouse (shoot & miss), pheasant or rabbit....My uncle eventually reclaimed it and apparently sold it as I recently inherited his long guns and that piece and a M1 carbine were missing from the inventory and crossed off his handwritten list of stuff that was lost in the boating accident...

FIFY

 

[Mrbiron]

I just got my replacement stock and Forend to start refurbishing a 40’s Stevens 22-410 if I can ever find the time.

Don’t know what I’m going to do with it when done, but it should be a fun and frustrating project. Haven’t decided yet.

maybe it can be my kids starter gun if my wife will ever let that happen…

 

[Broc]

I love double rifles and want one, I just never understood the appeal to combo guns. You are basically carrying two single shot guns.

Were they designed for shotgun hunters that wanted to hunt in places with dangerous animals in Africa, so they needed the rifle just in case?

Go for a nice double rifle in the same caliber for both barrels. There is a European company that sells some nice ones, even over and under rifles, for around $2-3K.

 

[tuna]

The appeal to me is that I prefer small game hunting over deer. And I typically carry a single shot shotgun when I hunt. I like the light weight, and even more I like the slimness of them. I have really no use for anything over a double barrel, because I have NEVER hit with the 3rd, 4th or 5th shot. When I carry my repeaters, I don't even load the mag with 3 because I'll just waste the rounds and let everyone in earshot know that 1) I suck and 2) come this way for a bird that I missed.

My repeaters don't get the love they deserve, at all. My 1955 Belgian Sweet 16 and 1968 870 both sit gathering dust in the safe. Oddly, the cheapest gun I've got, the early 1900's 520 that I bought for less than $100 and cut the barrel and stock for HD use gets the most use. Not only does it sit behind the door for unexpected visitors, but my 10 year old son discovered with the cut down stock it fits him perfect.

Deer and small game overlap for me here. So, I'd prefer to keep hunting small game, but I'd like the ability to take a deer if I see one. I don't want to use slugs, because I'm finally where I don't need to use them, and I'd prefer to use a rifle now that I can. Besides, a rifle is typically more accurate at longer ranges than a slug, especially a slug fired from an old single shot.

Double rifles are awesome, true works of art. But it takes skill to get them to hit together. Getting a single shotgun and single rifle regulated seems a bit easier. Get the rifle zeroed and the shotgun "shouldn't" be too far off for birdshot range. The companies seem to have gotten it with .22/.410 - I'd just love to see a new rifle out that has a bit more "oomph".

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I love double rifles and want one, I just never understood the appeal to combo guns. You are basically carrying two single shot guns.

Were they designed for shotgun hunters that wanted to hunt in places with dangerous animals in Africa, so they needed the rifle just in case?

Go for a nice double rifle in the same caliber for both barrels. There is a European company that sells some nice ones, even over and under rifles, for around $2-3K.

Depends on the type of combo gun.

A "Cape Rifle" is usually one shotgun barrel plus one rifle barrel. These were popular in the black powder days and were do-everything guns for settlers in places like South Africa. They also showed up here. Rather than have two guns, it's one gun with two options.

A "drilling" is two shotgun barrels and one rifle barrel. Check my other posts here for the explanation.

A double rifle is usually a dangerous game gun in large bore calibers, like say two .450 Nitro Express barrels. Thought process is that (a) two shots with two triggers are faster than a bolt gun; (b) there's less to go wrong with double rifles in crucial moments; and (c) without a repeating action, the guns can handle more powerful cartridges.

Most modern American combination guns are designed for small game or as survival guns.

I'd like to get a 16 x 16 x 8x57JRS gun sometime but it's not a high priority for me.

 

[MisterHappy]

I love double rifles and want one, I just never understood the appeal to combo guns. You are basically carrying two single shot guns.

Were they designed for shotgun hunters that wanted to hunt in places with dangerous animals in Africa, so they needed the rifle just in case?

Go for a nice double rifle in the same caliber for both barrels. There is a European company that sells some nice ones, even over and under rifles, for around $2-3K.

They were designed for European hunting, where you might encounter deer, boar, or birds on any given hunt.

Double rifles' appeal is that you have more-or-less absolute reliability for a second shot, when you are facing down something that will eat or trample you.