Concealed Weapon Insurance

[rromano22]

Worth it? Who has it? Thoughts?

Was looking at this one: https://www.concealedweaponins.com/index.php

Thanks

R

 

[dennism]

I recall a similar insurance program that had low regard around these parts. Not sure about this one.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Some may be legit, particularly if backed by AM Best rates insurance companies.

Watch out for:

- Reimbursement after successful defense (remember, most cases, including yours, will likely end in a plea bargain)

- A policy where they "may" grant funds for a defense

- Anything not providing cash up front, or pre-indictment representation

The only flaws I see in a first glance are

1. It is not clear if pre-indictment representation is provided

2. They offer bail bonds, not bail cash. MA is a cash bail state - it's not like a typical state where you post 10% to a bonding company and the court accepts the bonding companies contract it is good for the rest if you don't appear. This is also why MA bails tend to be lower that many other states, as well as why you don't see a bail bond company on every street in the bad sections of town.

 

[the_shootist]

Looks to be something that's not needed. Actually, much of the insurance offered out there is not needed. It's a cash cow for these insurance companies. They don't have skyscrapers in every major city because they pay out lots of insurance claims you know.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Fire insurance is not needed unless your house burns.

I've had a few homeowners claims, but the amount I paid in premiums over the years vastly exceeds what I have collected. I paid cash for my house, so I am not required to have such insurance - but I still do.

 

[rivet_42]

I hear they'll give you a concealed carry sash when you sign up.

 

[rromano22]

Some may be legit, particularly if backed by AM Best rates insurance companies.

Watch out for:

- Reimbursement after successful defense (remember, most cases, including yours, will likely end in a plea bargain)

- A policy where they "may" grant funds for a defense

- Anything not providing case up front, or pre-indictment representation

The only flaws I see in a first glance are

1. It is not clear if pre-indictment representation is provided

2. They offer bail bonds, not bail cash. MA is a cash bail state - it's not like a typical state where you post 10% to a bonding company and the court accepts the bonding companies contract it is good for the rest if you don't appear. This is also why MA bails tend to be lower that many other states, as well as why you don't see a bail bond company on every street in the bad sections of town.

Thanks for the heads up. Have you heard of any companies that you could recommend?

 

[the_shootist]

Fire insurance is not needed unless your house burns.

I've had a few homeowners claims, but the amount I paid in premiums over the years vastly exceeds what I have collected. I paid cash for my house, so I am not required to have such insurance - but I still do.

Some insurance is warranted, some not. It's personal preference based on one's perceived risk

 

[teaser452]

Looks to be something that's not needed. Actually, much of the insurance offered out there is not needed. It's a cash cow for these insurance companies. They don't have skyscrapers in every major city because they pay out lots of insurance claims you know.

This!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Thanks for the heads up. Have you heard of any companies that you could recommend?

The stated benefits of SecondCall seem pretty good, however, I do not know their history of paying, so I am not qualified to recommend.

"Home warranty" insurance comes to mind. A friend had a policy on a house he bought used and, when the had a major claim (AC compressor needed replacement), the company simply refused to pay and it took legal action to get them to honor the policy. They even tried the slease move of sending a $60 check for the diagnostic work with a "contract" on the back "agreeing" that cashing the contract was full and complete settlement to all claims related to A/C.

If a ccw policy refuses to pay, it will be at a time when you are least able (financially, emotionally and logistically) to battle them to force payment.

 

[str8shooter]

If you do purchase insurance, I would also read the fine print to see how an attorney is appointed to you. If the insurance company is using their own attys on retainer in your area, BEWARE! They will hire the cheapest attys, not necessarily the most experienced or qualified attys i.e. you may be getting a real estate atty to defend you in a life altering situation. If they allow you to hire your own atty, there will probably be caps for how much they will pay out and when. Just my own 2¢.

 

[Len-2A Training]

If you do purchase insurance, I would also read the fine print to see how an attorney is appointed to you. If the insurance company is using their own attys on retainer in your area, BEWARE! They will hire the cheapest attys, not necessarily the most experienced or qualified attys i.e. you may be getting a real estate atty to defend you in a life altering situation. If they allow you to hire your own atty, there will probably be caps for how much they will pay out and when. Just my own 2¢.

Pay special attention to the above response. An attorney that is NOT an expert in SD cases and equally knowledgeable of gun laws in your state are a ticket to PP status.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Pay special attention to the above response. An attorney that is NOT an expert in SD cases and equally knowledgeable of gun laws in your state are a ticket to PP status.

+1

Remember, the DA's office never likes to go away empty handed - it hurts their stats. Innocent people may very likely be coerced into a plea bargain as a face saving matter for the prosecution, and many non-gun attorneys don't have a clue as to the PP issue, or the subtleties of how it works in the DPRM.

The Comm2a Plea Bargain Worksheet is a good starting point for info.

 

[mikem317]

There's also USCCA. I get spammed from them often, and if you download any of their "freebie" guides, it takes you to their magazine/insurance page.

So there's a few. Done some research but haven't purchased a policy.

 

[Acujeff]

Getting the best legal services and the money to pay for it, as soon as possible, will usually determine if the aftermath of armed self defense become complicated and catastrophic. Most gun owners are not prepared, legally or financially, to deal with the legal system.

I think Second Call Defense offers the most comprehensive services and coverage. It is managed exclusively by gun rights defense attorneys and advocates. Second Call Defense is backed by the NRA endorsed insurance program, administered by Lockton Affinity, LLC and underwritten by Lloyds of London.

For more info:
http://www.secondcalldefense.org/?affiliate=20084

Browse around their website - there is a lot of good articles on the aftermath of armed self defense. If you join via the website you get a rebate of your first month payment.

 

[Jorg]

I got referred to Second Call by a NES member & their attorneys have experience in firearms law.
Wouldn't make any sense for them to refer us to an immigration lawyer.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I got referred to Second Call by a NES member & their attorneys have experience in firearms law.
Wouldn't make any sense for them to refer us to an immigration lawyer.

Do you get a new bar member with a struggling practice or someone like Reddington?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Keep in mind that NRA's Second Call pays their instructors to promote Second Call.

When this program was created, they pushed us hard to sign up to be an "affiliate" referring students to sign up for the insurance program. For each person who signs up we would get a small commission. So look carefully at what people recommend. Personally I don't like peddling other people's/company's wares unless it is a true recommendation with no compensation to me. Others feel differently about this.

Also note carefully Rob Boudrie's point, you can't afford to settle for second best to represent you in a SD situation, there is too much at stake to take the second string.

 

[powerman]

my father has recommended Uscca

http://www.usconcealedcarry.net/join-now/

looks like they meet some of the concerns brought up such as bail cash and local attorneys?

 

[MrJones79]

I've heard Larry Vickers peddle CCW Safe: http://ccwsafe.com/mobile-home/

Have no clue as to their reputation or results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RG Sports]

The liability portion of your homeowners or renters insurance normally covers any kind of civil defense as long as it was a legal act. Some may even pay for legal defense. Read your policy.

 

[DPR]

The liability portion of your homeowners or renters insurance normally covers any kind of civil defense as long as it was a legal act. Some may even pay for legal defense. Read your policy.

And you can add more $$ coverage easily. I'd recommend talking to your agent prior before jumping to a 3rd party group.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One important thing to check is if the policy provides for up to defense or "reimbursement upon acquittal". Even if you are innocent, you WILL take a plea bargain to stay out of the big house and thus lose any chance of "reimbursement". Underwriters know this . Watch them weasel words.

And, if the insurance company simply refuses to pay, you will not be in a position to successfully litigate the issue.

 

[MrJones79]

The liability portion of your homeowners or renters insurance normally covers any kind of civil defense as long as it was a legal act. Some may even pay for legal defense. Read your policy.

That may be well and good if an incident takes place at your residence, but obviously still need something to cover you in the event something happens outside your home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rob Boudrie]

That may be well and good if an incident takes place at your residence, but obviously still need something to cover you in the event something happens outside your home.

"Homeowners liability insurance" and "umbrella policies" (generally adders to homeowners policies) are usually "all purpose" policies covering non-business activity at home or away. For example, if someone claims you tripped them in the checkout line at a supermarket, that would be covered even though it occurred outside the home.

 

[MrJones79]

"Homeowners liability insurance" and "umbrella policies" (generally adders to homeowners policies) are usually "all purpose" policies covering non-business activity at home or away. For example, if someone claims you tripped them in the checkout line at a supermarket, that would be covered even though it occurred outside the home.

Well that's good to know. I thought my homeowners only covered events occurring on the property (and it may, guess I'd have to read it in depth). At that point it probably goes back to the quality of counsel brought up earlier if it's indeed covered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Well that's good to know. I thought my homeowners only covered events occurring on the property (and it may, guess I'd have to read it in depth). At that point it probably goes back to the quality of counsel brought up earlier if it's indeed covered.

Keep in mind homeowners insurance is only for civil cases, not criminal. It is rare for claims to be resolved outside policy limits (attorneys like judgments that are paid immediately without asset traces; fraudulent conveyance trials; etc.) so the quality of counsel is more about the insurance company's liability than yours.

 

[DPR]

Well that's good to know. I thought my homeowners only covered events occurring on the property (and it may, guess I'd have to read it in depth). At that point it probably goes back to the quality of counsel brought up earlier if it's indeed covered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely consider adding umbrella coverage. It's easy and cheap to greatly increase limits for all your policies.

 

[Acujeff]

Most homeowners and umbrella policies specifically exclude coverage for injury or damage intentionally caused by the insured. If your policy includes a "reasonable force" exception, you may have a certain amount of civil liability coverage, but the law prevents an insurance company from offering coverage for any illegal activity. In other words, you are considered the defendant and ineligible for any insurance coverage until you prove your innocence using the affirmative defense of self defense. Before assuming your conventional insurance covers intentional armed self defense, contact them to verify.

All the organizations offering services and/or benefits for armed self defense were started by pro-2A organizations precisely due to the fact that conventional insurance coverage does not adequately cover these needs. Almost all gun groups, columnists and legal experts recommend gun owners have a plan not just for self defense but also for the aftermath.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Most homeowners and umbrella policies specific

ally exclude

coverage for injury or damage intentionally caused by the insured.

Mind excluded "intentional" acts except those intended to protect life or property. While I don't think this is intended to cover self defense civil litigation, it might. The real purpose of such an "except for" inclusion are claims like injuring someone when pushing them out of the way of an oncoming bus or cracking ribs while giving CPR (sometimes separately covered under good samaritan statutes),

Definitely consider adding umbrella coverage. It's easy and cheap to greatly increase limits for all your policies.

Well worth it if you have assets. The downside is that it makes you a BIG target if someone hits you in an auto accident (fault is largely irrelevant if one party is well insured and the other party has competent counsel).