Condition 1 Carry Poll

Do you keep a round in the chamber of your Glock or similar type semi-auto?

  • Yes

    Votes: 261 92.2%
  • No

    Votes: 22 7.8%

  • Total voters
    283

Greg

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I did this test to a friend who didn’t believe I could cover forty feet before he drew his nerf gun.
He knew I was coming. He knew where I was coming from. There was no one else around. I was the only threat.
It wasn’t even close.
The look on his face when I let out a blood curdling scream and started a full speed charge was hilarious.

Why did your buddy just stand there ?

These ninja tests are stupid, like why would a person just stand there and let someone bum rush them ?

You guys aren't cops and are not putting yourself in dangerous situations so stop watching cop training films like you are disarming a person holding a knife lol I swear it like some of you people get an LTC and want to go around arresting people and stopping crimes. Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

Some of you guys would make really shitty hit men.
 
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Grendizer138

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Why did your buddy just stand there ?

These ninja tests are stupid, like why would a person just stand there and let someone bum rush them ?

You guys aren't cops and are not putting yourself in dangerous situations so stop watching cop training films like you are disarming a person holding a knife lol I swear it like some of you people get an LTC and want to go around arresting people and stopping crimes. Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

Some of you guys would make really shitty hit men.
NSIS. Those drills are to show that the “21 ft” rule, which suggests that a charging threat can cover 21’ before you’re able to shoot it, is complete nonsense. Unfortunately, that “rule” has been used in court. For reference, I’ve done [a version of] this drill and was able to cover 70’ before another shooter could draw and put a well placed hit on a target at 21’

I agree with practicing situational awareness and avoidance. And you are entitled to your wrong opinions.
 
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whatluck

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That's because everyone wants to play safety Nazi, and scream about models in magazines with a finger on the trigger. People act like you need two person integrity when moving or handling firearms, and stupid laws don't help. People that are brand new to guns are probably intimidated into thinking that if they're not 100% safe, 100% of the time, there is a 100% chance of an accident which will lead them to jail.



3. Planning to put on your motorcycle helmet once you clear the handlebars.
4. Putting on your parachute on the way out the door.
5. Keeping an oxygen tank at the bottom of the lake in case your drowning.
6. Planning on putting gas in the tank in the morning.



I did 25 feet, me with a marker and the guy had to get his hand out of his pocket and say bang. It was about 50-50. I'm also very unathletic and gravity challenged - so my fat ass moving across a room and getting the guy half the time was eye opening, when they realized what someone in shape would do.

I use sidewalk chalk on a rubber knife. I'm 6' an 165 and train for explosiveness. I can close the 21 feet within most people's ~1 second reaction time. One running step gets me halfway there. If we start from relaxed and the other person has to draw from under a jacket I can usually get close enough to stuff the pistol back into the holster while stabbing. Not a pretty thing to watch, but def eye opening for all the whitebelts who havent tried that drill yet.
 

whatluck

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Why did your buddy just stand there ?

These ninja tests are stupid, like why would a person just stand there and let someone bum rush them ?

You guys aren't cops and are not putting yourself in dangerous situations so stop watching cop training films like you are disarming a person holding a knife lol I swear it like some of you people get an LTC and want to go around arresting people and stopping crimes. Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

Some of you guys would make really shitty hit men.

It's really important how you do this drill, that you make sure the person doesn't expect when you're going to move in. You can have a black belt in BJJ and you can't use 80% of your grappling because you need to keep control of your firearm. Don't forget: if your shooting hand gets arm dragged you're ass is getting skewered.
 

Greg

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It's really important how you do this drill, that you make sure the person doesn't expect when you're going to move in. You can have a black belt in BJJ and you can't use 80% of your grappling because you need to keep control of your firearm. Don't forget: if your shooting hand gets arm dragged you're ass is getting skewered.

I never considered that.. What if you are being attacked by a guy with a knife coming at you with the knife in a downward stabbing motion ?
 

Greg

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NSIS. Those drills are to show that the “21 ft” rule, which suggests that a charging threat can cover 21’ before you’re able to shoot it, is complete nonsense. Unfortunately, that “rule” has been used in court. For reference, I’ve done this drill and was able to cover 70’ before another shooter could draw and put a well placed hit on a target at 21’

I agree with practicing situational awareness and avoidance. And you are entitled to your wrong opinions.

I'll just stick to not carrying out a citizens arrest on someone with a knife and let the cops handle that who have a lot more leeway in the use of a gun in self defense.

My opinions are only wrong in a court of law :)
 

whatluck

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I never considered that.. What if you are being attacked by a guy with a knife coming at you with the knife in a downward stabbing motion ?

Knife defense 101:

There's something called the primary weapon rule. If you're getting attacked by a knife and you have a gun obv you want to make space, you want to be more than 20 feet away. You can throw the good old push kick/front snap/teep to make space but you'll probably not make enough to draw unless your kick disables the attacker.

If you're in knife range and currently getting stabbed and your gun is not out, then drawing is not the right move. There's something called the Primary Weapon Rule. All your attention needs to be on that knife, you're not protecting anyone else, you're not doing anything but trying to get two-on-one, two hands on the attacking hand. You don't move to anything else until you control the knife. You always want to move off of the angle of attack, get your feet out of the way. Keep your hands up, shoulders shrugged, body crunched. Try and cover all your vital organs and your neck and face. Don't extend your hands, keeping them close to your body will help you not get cut. If I'm stabbing and you reach out you open a nice space for me to put the knife into, usually liver, kidneys, or pancreas. Keep the backs of your hands and arms towards the attacker, if you're good you're probably going to only get cut in the hands but you don't want to get cut in the inside of your wrist because you'll bleed out. Crash into the attacker off the line of attack to the outside and get your two on one. You can't have a knife between two people fighting over it, we call this 50/50 because nobody has an advantage, bad news for knife fighting. What you can do is attach the knife to something, the ground, a wall, the ceiling. The best for me is the ground. If someone stabs down and you can crash the knife into the ground, you can step on it freeing your hands, satisfying the primary weapon rule. You can then go to town with knees or elbows or whatever.

There's some really cool drills built around two-on-one fighting. You really want to microtrain that so it's instinctive.

So basically, if you have good open handed skills, within stabbing range you're better off with nothing if your hands. eta (except maybe a baton, or even better a shield)
 
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whatluck

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Lol at tueller tests

I use it more as a drill to teach white belts the hidden secret of combat: We're all at each other's mercy. You don't have to be better than someone to get them, you just have to be good enough. If someone is really determined to do you in, there's pretty much no stopping them. Occam's Razor also applies. This is why we train to not hesitate when someone wants a piece.
 

Greg

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Knife defense 101:

There's something called the primary weapon rule. If you're getting attacked by a knife and you have a gun obv you want to make space, you want to be more than 20 feet away. You can throw the good old push kick/front snap/teep to make space but you'll probably not make enough to draw unless your kick disables the attacker.

If you're in knife range and currently getting stabbed and your gun is not out, then drawing is not the right move. There's something called the Primary Weapon Rule. All your attention needs to be on that knife, you're not protecting anyone else, you're not doing anything but trying to get two-on-one, two hands on the attacking hand. You don't move to anything else until you control the knife. You always want to move off of the angle of attack, get your feet out of the way. Keep your hands up, shoulders shrugged, body crunched. Try and cover all your vital organs and your neck and face. Don't extend your hands, keeping them close to your body will help you not get cut. If I'm stabbing and you reach out you open a nice space for me to put the knife into, usually liver, kidneys, or pancreas. Keep the backs of your hands and arms towards the attacker, if you're good you're probably going to only get cut in the hands but you don't want to get cut in the inside of your wrist because you'll bleed out. Crash into the attacker off the line of attack to the outside and get your two on one. You can't have a knife between two people fighting over it, we call this 50/50 because nobody has an advantage, bad news for knife fighting. What you can do is attach the knife to something, the ground, a wall, the ceiling. The best for me is the ground. If someone stabs down and you can crash the knife into the ground, you can step on it freeing your hands, satisfying the primary weapon rule. You can then go to town with knees or elbows or whatever.

There's some really cool drills built around two-on-one fighting. You really want to microtrain that so it's instinctive.

So basically, if you have good open handed skills, within stabbing range you're better off with nothing if your hands.

I appreciate your time typing all that out, but I'm just having fun and not being too serious :)

 

Cuthbert Allgood

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I use it more as a drill to teach white belts the hidden secret of combat: We're all at each other's mercy. You don't have to be better than someone to get them, you just have to be good enough. If someone is really determined to do you in, there's pretty much no stopping them. Occam's Razor also applies. This is why we train to not hesitate when someone wants a piece.
No, I agree with your assessment of it and it’s used in that context. I just laugh at the drill in terms of people who think if they are successful at it that it means they are safe.
 

whatluck

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I appreciate your time typing all that out, but I'm just having fun and not being too serious :)



Ehhh I appreciate your levity, but I left that there because there's a lot of people on NES (yourself excluded im sure) that talk about knife fighting but really have no idea how horrible it is.

loser of a knife fight dies on the spot, winner dies on the way to the hospital
 

Greg

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Ehhh I appreciate your levity, but I left that there because there's a lot of people on NES (yourself excluded im sure) that talk about knife fighting but really have no idea how horrible it is.

loser of a knife fight dies on the spot, winner dies on the way to the hospital

I would rather get shot than silced/stabbed, getting attacked by a knife terrifies me

I have no clue about knife fighting and will never berate a person for trying to teach others, just didn't want you to waste any time taking me seriously.
 

whatluck

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I would rather get shot than silced/stabbed, getting attacked by a knife terrifies me

i have an old friend who'se been both shot and stabbed. stabbed in the back next to his spine, and shot in the arm with a .32. He said he didn't even feel the shot, lost control of his arm but kept fighting. When he got stabbed it hurt so bad he fell down and passed out.
 

Cuthbert Allgood

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Ehhh I appreciate your levity, but I left that there because there's a lot of people on NES (yourself excluded im sure) that talk about knife fighting but really have no idea how horrible it is.

loser of a knife fight dies on the spot, winner dies on the way to the hospital
Rule number one, you were going to get cut.

rule number 2 the other guys going to bleed more than you
 

Greg

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Rule number one, you were going to get cut.

rule number 2 the other guys going to bleed more than you

That's my plan, I am going to get sliced stabbed once.

Figure I will just sacrifice my weak hand, kinda like when I got attacked by my Rottweiler.
 

tuna

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Why did your buddy just stand there ?

These ninja tests are stupid, like why would a person just stand there and let someone bum rush them ?

You guys aren't cops and are not putting yourself in dangerous situations so stop watching cop training films like you are disarming a person holding a knife lol I swear it like some of you people get an LTC and want to go around arresting people and stopping crimes. Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

Some of you guys would make really shitty hit men.

I think my situation was we were arguing about why a cop (or citizen) needed to shoot a bad guy with a knife "so far away". When you look at how far away 20' is, our movie calibrated minds don't get that it's way too close for comfort. So me moving my fat ass across a room before he could get his hand out of his pocket made him look at just what a threat could be.

Movies have really REALLY messed with people's concepts of reality. I used to be Air Force Intelligence (I'll wait for the laughter to stop) and would brief pilots on threat systems. Reading countertactic about incoming threats made it seem like these guys have all the time in the world to execute countertactics - couple that with everyone watching missiles on the big screen moving nice and slow, almost dogfighting the aircraft was a bad mindset. I'd show videos of near misses where the missile went from flash to gone in nothing flat ("fast as a rocket" is a saying for a reason) that would really wake pilots up who'd never seen a missile in flight, or at least in flight the wrong direction. More than a few had told me after that they "knew" the missile was fast, just not how fast.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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That's my plan, I am going to get sliced stabbed once.

Figure I will just sacrifice my weak hand, kinda like when I got attacked by my Rottweiler.
Dude. Anyone comes at you with a knife, you will die based on what you post.

Greg, you grand master of self defense and tactical situations, please, educate us on the proper way of conceal carrying and self defense. Please, teach us your ways great master.
 

whatluck

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That's my plan, I am going to get sliced stabbed once.

Figure I will just sacrifice my weak hand, kinda like when I got attacked by my Rottweiler.

I had a Krav instructor who was really good at the sacrifice block, he'd always get sliced on the arm but then immediately get his hands on you and judo you to death. He never really told anyone but I figured out he had a judo background from his footwork, I was watching him ragdoll people for a few weeks before it clicked. Judo guys don't protect themselves from ankle picks so one time I stabbed slow and waited for the sacrafice block, and then when he set up his kesa-dilla or whatever I'd switch to ankle pick, basically swan dove and grabbed his ankle, and sat on his foot and start stabbing him in the balls. Good times. Only got him once with that, now he sprawls every time I go low with a knife, he learned fast.
 

AJK129

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I think my situation was we were arguing about why a cop (or citizen) needed to shoot a bad guy with a knife "so far away". When you look at how far away 20' is, our movie calibrated minds don't get that it's way too close for comfort. So me moving my fat ass across a room before he could get his hand out of his pocket made him look at just what a threat could be.

Movies have really REALLY messed with people's concepts of reality. I used to be Air Force Intelligence (I'll wait for the laughter to stop) and would brief pilots on threat systems. Reading countertactic about incoming threats made it seem like these guys have all the time in the world to execute countertactics - couple that with everyone watching missiles on the big screen moving nice and slow, almost dogfighting the aircraft was a bad mindset. I'd show videos of near misses where the missile went from flash to gone in nothing flat ("fast as a rocket" is a saying for a reason) that would really wake pilots up who'd never seen a missile in flight, or at least in flight the wrong direction. More than a few had told me after that they "knew" the missile was fast, just not how fast.
20 feet is basically the length of a truck, so it's essentially shooting someone charging you at a gas pump
 

ddraper

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Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

This. Situational awareness will save your ass more than any amount of training in most cases.

My wife and kids used to ask why I never stood near the edge of the platform in the subway but instead a good 10 or more feet back. Look at what just happened to that lady in NY who got pushed in front a train and killed just a few days ago.
 
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Why did your buddy just stand there ?

These ninja tests are stupid, like why would a person just stand there and let someone bum rush them ?

You guys aren't cops and are not putting yourself in dangerous situations so stop watching cop training films like you are disarming a person holding a knife lol I swear it like some of you people get an LTC and want to go around arresting people and stopping crimes. Being aware of your surroundings will get you out of more trouble more than watching YT cop training videos and patterning your training off of them.

Some of you guys would make really shitty hit men.
We can’t all be operators like you?
 

kerryman71

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Situational awareness. When I would pick my son up from school I would park in a CVS parking lot and wait for him. I would watch people completely clueless to their surroundings. You could f*** them up three different ways and be gone before they knew what happened. One time a guy got out of his car and I said to myself "He's going to walk into that sign" Yup. Head right into it, haha. We all hear that the typical self defense shooting is within a few yards, but I bet if people paid more attention they could see it coming sooner, or at least be a little more aware of what might be coming. Hell, they might not even become a target. Some shitbag looking to rob someone, or worse, may actually take their time to pick out the easy target.
 
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In most street fights and brawls these days you don't see anyone using kicks anymore. Just grapple, lunge and punch, or the combination of that with the addition of a knife. Why not learn to strike farther? Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks serve a purpose. Then again, I'm not a tier 1 operator like many of you here are.
 
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