Cross-Country Riding w/Firearm - FFL Questions

[mannydog]

Greetings,

I do 2 or 3 mid-distance to longer-distance rides (3k - 6k miles) a year on a motorcycle. I have MA LTC and both Florida and Utah non-resident carry permits. Bike is garaged in FL so I don't need to ride through 2A-hostile states in the Northeast.

I've considered Colorado, California, and a few other States that I might otherwise want to ride through as off-limits on past rides and I've stayed out of them. FOPA wouldn't apply, as I'd likely be stopping and spending at least a night in those States.

These are my questions:

• Would an FFL in an adjacent State to California, I'm thinking Nevada, let me "check" my firearm in with him and then allow me to retrieve it on my way back from CA?
• Is this a highly irregular practice that most reputable FFLs typically wouldn't want to be part of?
• Would the FFL be required to log the firearm into his books, as if it were a transfer, and then do the same upon my retrieval of the firearm?
• Would a local MA FFL need to contact and make an introduction on my behalf to an out-of-State FFL to make this work? (I'm certainly not going to just show up at some LGS in Nevada and ask them "can you hold onto this for me for a week?").

I'm hoping there might be a way to pull this off because I'm thinking of doing a "pretty daughter ride" to see my three girls and they're in south Florida, Texas, and northern California. I'm sure that some people would say just do it (concealed-means-concealed) and all that but even if I was doing everything right as far as the riding goes, and was to get lit up at a stop light by some distracted driver in CA, a few broken bones would be the least of my problems.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Best regards. mannydog.

 

[appraiser]

once a FFL takes a weapon in it gets logged in their book and they have to transfer it back to you.

Correct me if I am wrong guys/girls.

 

[drgrant]

If a dealer is willing, , they could log a gun in as a repair and log it back out to you. "I need you to clean my gun and ill pick it up in 2 weeks when I get back".

ETA: THIS ASSUMES OF COURSE, that theres no dumb overriding state law in the state you're doing in, that mandates some other action on top of that, eg, like in a free state that isn't f***ed up or retarded at all.

But frankly most of this is mental masturbation. Just bring guns that are legal where you're going, or don't bother. Or use something simplistic like a self storage center to leave
junk there and then pick it up on the way back, etc.

-Mike

 

[mannydog]

once a FFL takes a weapon in it gets logged in their book and they have to transfer it back to you.

Correct me if I am wrong guys/girls.

This. I'm wondering if there is any distinction between transfer of ownership as opposed to transfer of possession.

 

[drgrant]

once a FFL takes a weapon in it gets logged in their book and they have to transfer it back to you.

Correct me if I am wrong guys/girls.

On a "repair" there is no 4473 or transfer for it to go in and out of the book.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Also if your only commie state is Cali, what the hell are you even worried about? Just bring something compliant (no AWs, no mags over 10 rnds etc) if it's just a handgun just lock that shit up on your bike when in CA, done. not rocket science. It's not like we're talking NY state, NJ, etc here.

ETA: contrary to popular belief, unloaded, secured possession of most basic guns in CA isn't a big deal.

-Mike

 

[mannydog]

If a dealer is willing, , they could log a gun in as a repair and log it back out to you. "I need you to clean my gun and ill pick it up in 2 weeks when I get back".

ETA: THIS ASSUMES OF COURSE, that theres no dumb overriding state law in the state you're doing in, that mandates some other action on top of that, eg, like in a free state that isn't f***ed up or retarded at all.

But frankly most of this is mental masturbation. Just bring guns that are legal where you're going, or don't bother. Or use something simplistic like a self storage center to leave
junk there and then pick it up on the way back, etc.

-Mike

The "clean my gun" and self-storage opinions make some sense. As far as bringing what's legal or don't bother, sure, I get that and in the past that's exactly why I've stayed away from CA but in CA not much of anything is legal and I'm not riding through all the southern border states unarmed. This thread has gotten ahead of me on my responses but as far as CA not being NY or NJ, I dont think it's much better.

 

[drgrant]

The "clean my gun" and self-storage opinions make some sense. As far as bringing what's legal or don't bother, sure, I get that and in the past that's exactly why I've stayed away from CA but in CA not much of anything is legal and I'm not riding through all the southern border states unarmed. This thread has gotten ahead of me on my responses but as far as CA not being NY or NJ, I dont think it's much better.

Again, unless you're bringing an AK or AR or something like that, there's not really anything to worry about. Bring a handgun with a 10 round (or less) mag. Lock it up before you go over the
border. Done. Read the laws, despite CA being f***ing retarded, it's not nearly as retarded as MA, NJ, NY, etc when it comes to "free by default possession" of whatever guns that are
actually legal. I wouldn't think twice about bringing a handgun with me when I go to CA every year, the only reason I don't even bother doing it is unless I'm going into NV while I'm out there, I have no way to legally carry it anyways.

-Mike

 

[mannydog]

Again, unless you're bringing an AK or AR or something like that, there's not really anything to worry about. Bring a handgun with a 10 round (or less) mag. Lock it up before you go over the
border. Done. Read the laws, despite CA being f***ing retarded, it's not nearly as retarded as MA, NJ, NY, etc when it comes to "free by default possession" of whatever guns that are
actually legal. I wouldn't think twice about bringing a handgun with me when I go to CA every year, the only reason I don't even bother doing it is unless I'm going into NV while I'm out there, I have no way to legally carry it anyways.

-Mike

I do this when riding through SC, unload and lock it up. I will read the CA laws, frankly, I never bothered doing so being under the assumption that their gun laws were just as restrictive as anywhere. Thanks for the input.

 

[grrizzly]

I had a similar concern and discussed it in this thread. Instead of riding, I flew to and from LAX. There were no issues.

 

[Glockster30]

On a "repair" there is no 4473 or transfer for it to go in and out of the book.-Mike

Mike, I don't think this is true with regard to the transfer. According to ATF, if a gun is dropped off for repairs with a gunsmith and it can be repaired and returned on the same business day, then no A&D is needed. However, if the repair is going to take longer than one business day that goes into the next business day or longer, then an A&D is required. I only know this because I went through it a couple of years ago.

Does a gunsmith need to enter every firearm received for adjustment or repair into an acquisition and disposition (A&D) record? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired, or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the A&D record as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the...

www.atf.gov

 

[allen-1]

On a "repair" there is no 4473 or transfer for it to go in and out of the book.

-Mike

I've got a couple of lowers being cerakoted - he entered them into his bound book because he's keeping them more than 24 hours. I don't know what paperwork I'm doing when I pick them up.

 

[drgrant]

Mike, I don't think this is true with regard to the transfer. According to ATF, if a gun is dropped off for repairs with a gunsmith and it can be repaired and returned on the same business day, then no A&D is needed. However, if the repair is going to take longer than one business day that goes into the next business day or longer, then an A&D is required. I only know this because I went through it a couple of years ago.

Does a gunsmith need to enter every firearm received for adjustment or repair into an acquisition and disposition (A&D) record? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired, or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the A&D record as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the...

www.atf.gov

I've never had a repair done that required a 4473 ill just leave it at that. Also how do people send out guns and get them shipped back, they don't sign 4473s either. Yes the gun gets logged in and out of the book, but this is not a stereotypical transfer and all the bullshit that it would normally entail.

ETA: I realize that I probably could have made this a bit clearer in my original response. Regardless, it’s not a transfer in a typical sense, it’s only being logged for compliance purposes.

 

[67ray]

Could you just honor a "don't ask, don't tell" policy? Ride where you want, and don't show anything. It would be the same as not carrying right?

 

[drgrant]

I've got a couple of lowers being cerakoted - he entered them into his bound book because he's keeping them more than 24 hours. I don't know what paperwork I'm doing when I pick them up.

You shouldn't be doing any paperwork other than paying the guy for his services and taking your stuff back. Logging them out of the book is his problem. (and often an operation the consumer doesn't see anyways. )

 

[mannydog]

Just found this on the CA Attorney General's website, my underscore. So, seems it's fine to just lock it up, unloaded, and go for a ride. I never would have thought this would be the case in CA.


Transporting Firearms in California

1. Home
2. Firearms
3. Transporting Firearms in California

HANDGUNS
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 25610, a United States citizen over 18 years of age who is not prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, may transport by motor vehicle any handgun provided it is unloaded and locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container. Furthermore, the handgun must be carried directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while being carried must be contained within a locked container.
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.

 

[bsaks]

this thread is very timely as the wife and I just talked about doing a cross country drive out to CA then driving up and down the coast out there. I didn't think you could bring a gun into CA.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You shouldn't be doing any paperwork other than paying the guy for his services and taking your stuff back. Logging them out of the book is his problem. (and often an operation the consumer doesn't see anyways. )

Like Mike, I've had repair work done, sights installed, cerakote, trigger jobs done, etc. all of which meant leaving (or shipping) a gun for ~1-2 weeks. I've never had to do a 4473 to get my gun back.