CRS Firearms Matthew Hoover arrested for selling auto keycards

Wait. They called no witnesses??? Wow.

It's a fascinating case of government overreach for sure. Hoping for a nice global smackdown on the gub'mint on this one. Doubtful, but it would be nice if some panel went on for 15 min of how the ATF was full of morons and how they should be ashamed and such.
They had former ATF technical expert/trainer Dan O’ Kelly retained to testify for the defense but in the final weeks of trial prep the defense decided against after speaking with other council that has defended clients in federal court.

That seems like a huge mistake
 
The card is obviously legally and freely available information.
All that needed to be argued is that fact and the experts at the ATF who are the Subject Matter Experts in making these parts could not reliably produce a working unit.

It's almost like they knew that they would lose and were planning to use the government’s insane argument to kill the entire a simple part is a machinegun part of the NFA.
 
I don't think calling witnesses would have made a difference in this first stage. But yeah, seems like a stupid f***ing strategy.
I didn't follow the trial, and I don't know their strategy.

But I do know that you only get one chance to introduce evidence and testimony, and that's at the initial trial.

Appeals will have to be based on procedural error or standing case law. Meanwhile, he's sitting in jail awaiting sentencing, and then possibly sitting in prison post-sentence while the appeals play out.
 
I'm not smart enough to have an educated opinion on all this, but, after viewing the video, it looks like a pile of horseshit to me.
So you can be arrested for any chunk of metal you have with this outline drawn on it? Not even cut.
That's pretty lame.
Yep. And the ATF agent UNDER OATH admitted it took him over 45 minutes with a Dremel to get it cut out to be used, BUT were they able to get it to actually work?? NO!! 4 different times they tried this and yes, one gun did fire, but not because the auto key card worked the way they portrayed, but because of a malfunction of the gun! This is an expert, right? ATF agent- admitting he could NOT get the key card to work, not once, twice, but 4 different attempts after spending over 45 minutes with a Dremel to cut out this "machine gun"! My question is how tf did the jury watch this "expert" unable to prove the claims and still find "beyond a shadow of a doubt" a guilty verdict?? This absolutely sets the precedence for the future. Will it be illegal to have a drawing of a machine gun? A schematic? MSM isn't going to cover this case at all and the only chance these guys have is if the support is behind them. This is far beyond just guns now, this is government overreach and corruption at its finest.
 
Yep. And the ATF agent UNDER OATH admitted it took him over 45 minutes with a Dremel to get it cut out to be used, BUT were they able to get it to actually work?? NO!! 4 different times they tried this and yes, one gun did fire, but not because the auto key card worked the way they portrayed, but because of a malfunction of the gun! This is an expert, right? ATF agent- admitting he could NOT get the key card to work, not once, twice, but 4 different attempts after spending over 45 minutes with a Dremel to cut out this "machine gun"! My question is how tf did the jury watch this "expert" unable to prove the claims and still find "beyond a shadow of a doubt" a guilty verdict?? This absolutely sets the precedence for the future. Will it be illegal to have a drawing of a machine gun? A schematic? MSM isn't going to cover this case at all and the only chance these guys have is if the support is behind them. This is far beyond just guns now, this is government overreach and corruption at its finest.
A simple printed image would've given him a 1A defense, did he even attempt one?

Instead CRS had the design laser-etched into the metal a lawyer would've warned him that ATF consistently argues that any material removal crosses the line from a simple template to a start at machining a product.

Matt should have sprung a few bucks extra for a silkscreen process.
 
A simple printed image would've given him a 1A defense, did he even attempt one?

Instead CRS had the design laser-etched into the metal a lawyer would've warned him that ATF consistently argues that any material removal crosses the line from a simple template to a start at machining a product.

Matt should have sprung a few bucks extra for a silkscreen process.

It sounds like you missed the part there Matt never made or sold these. He did a YT ad on his channel. The product was not his. He never sold them.
 
To be fair, I could turn any glock or AR full auto pretty quickly. Knowledge doesn't make ordinary items illegal, same goes with the shoestring and coathanger. I believe intent does.
Disagree. The act does. Last time I checked, pre crime (intent) is only in the movies. A card is a card.
 
A simple printed image would've given him a 1A defense, did he even attempt one?

Instead CRS had the design laser-etched into the metal a lawyer would've warned him that ATF consistently argues that any material removal crosses the line from a simple template to a start at machining a product.

Matt should have sprung a few bucks extra for a silkscreen process.
How about a fundraiser?

A screen printed image on a piece of metal.

Somebody should sell that!
 
I have 3d printers, a lathe and a small cnc mill - Am I now a machine gun since I could relatively easily grab a pair of calipers and create a working lightning link design and produce the parts in my basement?
that depends. Do you IDENTIFY as a machine gun?
 
The outline was 20% larger than an actual lightning link and the thickness was not correct intentionally so the cards wouldn’t function. It’s in the trial transcripts.

BUT: as I have said before-
Lol it’s Massachusetts, even 3/4 of NES are bitch ass liberals that are not on “our side”.

Read a few threads here.
 
While this is all BS and Matt is nothing more than a political prisoner he should not of taunted the Feds all the way up to his trial. When you’re on trial for your life you gotta be smarter than that. The female prosecutor used all that against him and got him imprisoned. I hope everything works out for him and this silly mess gets straightened out.
 
The standard now seems to be any game played to even remotely subvert the intent of the NFA machine gun regulations is a crime.

Even if it was just printed, I would expect the feds to argue that the provision of the piece of metal was a "kit". I wonder if they would have obtained a conviction for a rubber stamp with the design.

And what if instead of advertising a firearms blog did a news report of "I can't believe what these guys are doing" .... of course that would not involve an ad payment.

It reminds me of the Maadi-Griffin saga. The feds dynamically expanded the definition of "gun" when Bob Stewart, who was a prohibited person, offered a 50BMG kit and made a good faith effort to follow the guidelines of not selling anything that met the federal definition of firearm. He made the mistake of thinking the law, rather than the system's desire for a particular outcome, was on his side and responded with "Nope, I'm not breaking the law" when the ATF told him to knock it off.

Play any game that even appears to facilitate the violation of NFA and the deck is stacked against you, even if you follow the letter of the law.

Remember the attorney dressed like a riverboard gambler explaining that the Rare Breed trigger was legal?
 
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Yep. And the ATF agent UNDER OATH admitted it took him over 45 minutes with a Dremel to get it cut out to be used, BUT were they able to get it to actually work?? NO!! 4 different times they tried this and yes, one gun did fire, but not because the auto key card worked the way they portrayed, but because of a malfunction of the gun! This is an expert, right? ATF agent- admitting he could NOT get the key card to work, not once, twice, but 4 different attempts after spending over 45 minutes with a Dremel to cut out this "machine gun"! My question is how tf did the jury watch this "expert" unable to prove the claims and still find "beyond a shadow of a doubt" a guilty verdict?? This absolutely sets the precedence for the future. Will it be illegal to have a drawing of a machine gun? A schematic? MSM isn't going to cover this case at all and the only chance these guys have is if the support is behind them. This is far beyond just guns now, this is government overreach and corruption at its finest.
One must always be aware that all the Federal Agencies under the DOJ are corrupt, the agents are corrupt and will do the bidding of their masters. You don't become a Special Agent In Charge (SAC) or a Resident Agent in Charge (RAC) without being a complete whore.
 
It sounds like you missed the part there Matt never made or sold these. He did a YT ad on his channel. The product was not his. He never sold them.
I stand corrected -- reading the details, Kristopher Ervin did the selling, and paid CRS/Matt for marketing?
The standard now seems to be any game played to even remotely subvert the intent of the NFA machine gun regulations is a crime.
Even if it was just printed, I would expect the feds to argue that the provision of the piece of metal was a "kit". I wonder if they would have obtained a conviction for a rubber stamp with the design.
And what if instead of advertising a firearms blog did a news report of "I can't believe what these guys are doing" .... of course that would not involve an ad payment.
Rubber stamp would've put AutoKeyCard on safer ground, or perhaps a booklet of transfer paper templates (temporary tattoos?). The closer one can get to a first amendment protected activity, the better (that's how Bernstein, Zimmerman and Schneier worked around the munitions export law).

Without the youtube promotions, the bundles of cash, and the etching into metal, BATFE's lawyers might've had a tougher time rolling over the jury.
 
some great videos out there of the ATF knocking on people's doors, kinda wish i'd bought one of those from a retailer who'd give up my name....
 
some great videos out there of the ATF knocking on people's doors, kinda wish i'd bought one of those from a retailer who'd give up my name....
unless you pay cash face to face there will always be a paper trail no matter if a company wishes to give up info or not.
 
It sounds like you missed the part there Matt never made or sold these. He did a YT ad on his channel. The product was not his. He never sold them.

A simple printed image would've given him a 1A defense, did he even attempt one?

Instead CRS had the design laser-etched into the metal a lawyer would've warned him that ATF consistently argues that any material removal crosses the line from a simple template to a start at machining a product.

Matt should have sprung a few bucks extra for a silkscreen process.
Correct. Matt only ran ads on his YouTube channel. For a year or close to it. AFTER he called his local ATF office and asked them first if it would be legal for him to do so. Matt is a licensed firearms dealer with a SOT. (He can manufacture machine guns-with the permission of ATF and DOJ of course) I think we all know "permission" is a broad term with lots of alternates such as maybe reach arounds or cash, depending on the mood of the one representing a 3 letter agency that has been given power without oversight.
 
The prosecuting AUSA might be not guilty based on her photo, but she's definitely guilty of being seen next Tuesday.


 
The prosecuting AUSA might be not guilty based on her photo, but she's definitely guilty of being seen next Tuesday.


Would bury.
 
Yep. And the ATF agent UNDER OATH admitted it took him over 45 minutes with a Dremel to get it cut out to be used, BUT were they able to get it to actually work?? NO!! 4 different times they tried this and yes, one gun did fire, but not because the auto key card worked the way they portrayed, but because of a malfunction of the gun! This is an expert, right? ATF agent- admitting he could NOT get the key card to work, not once, twice, but 4 different attempts after spending over 45 minutes with a Dremel to cut out this "machine gun"! My question is how tf did the jury watch this "expert" unable to prove the claims and still find "beyond a shadow of a doubt" a guilty verdict?? This absolutely sets the precedence for the future. Will it be illegal to have a drawing of a machine gun? A schematic? MSM isn't going to cover this case at all and the only chance these guys have is if the support is behind them. This is far beyond just guns now, this is government overreach and corruption at its finest.
What this means is if you have a standard AR lower, and a car - so that you can drive to Lowes - then you are guilty of possessing a machine gun, because that agent was able to drive to Lowes, buy a drill, a bit set, and a router and over the course of 5 days fail to achieve select fire, but he did get his AR to burrrrp and that's only because he remove the disconnector and glued the firing pin in place so that he hand a slam-fire setup. The instructions to the jury had to have literally been, "the ATF says he's guilty, so he's guilty, anyone feel up to dealing with criminal jury misconduct charges otherwise?"
 
Looks like she had an epiphany.

 
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