Curios incident with MA DEP

[alcestwo]

Saturday morning driving on Grove Street in Franklin about 11:00 AM, I came up behind two MA Environmental Protection vehicles with a pickup puled over. A forkhorn buck was on the tailgate of the pickup by this time. Franklin State Forest is nearby so there's probably not a trespass issue. The deer was clearly a buck so it's not likely to be an issue of trying to sneak a doe out of the woods.

So, just out of curiosity, what would prompt the DEP (two of them) to pull someone over? This really stood out because sometime back in the late 90's, my brother pulled into a legit parking area at another nearby state forest and a DEP officer was there so he asked to see my brother's license. That's the only time either of us has ever seen a warden in the woods. Any thoughts?

I would prefer this not turn into a thread crapping all over the wardens. In states like MA, I think they have a pretty thankless job.

 

[cams]

Did you see them being pulled over or is it possible someone struck a deer and this was the kill/clean up crew?

 

[whacko]

Saturday morning driving on Grove Street in Franklin about 11:00 AM, I came up behind two MA Environmental Protection vehicles with a pickup puled over. A forkhorn buck was on the tailgate of the pickup by this time. Franklin State Forest is nearby so there's probably not a trespass issue. The deer was clearly a buck so it's not likely to be an issue of trying to sneak a doe out of the woods.

So, just out of curiosity, what would prompt the DEP (two of them) to pull someone over? This really stood out because sometime back in the late 90's, my brother pulled into a legit parking area at another nearby state forest and a DEP officer was there so he asked to see my brother's license. That's the only time either of us has ever seen a warden in the woods. Any thoughts?

I would prefer this not turn into a thread crapping all over the wardens. In states like MA, I think they have a pretty thankless job.

If they see a deer in the truck they can pull someone over and check it out for legality......tag filled out properly, right hunting implement used etc.....just doing thier job. Not sure why you would think this would be odd at all.

 

[MisterHappy]

Transport of a deer is a fine line: in hunter ed, we teach that the deer has to be visible (to comply with the law), but not too visible, so as not to freak out the squeamish.

Lost of reasons possible - perhaps the deer was not properly transported; or it was, but John Woods Law wanted to check; pr someone called in a Bambi Murder.

A few years back, we saw a MassDOT flatbed on 128, with a roadkill deer. When we passed it, my kid tells me to honk the horn. DOT looked over, expecting a crying child, and a p!ssed off parent, but ly kid was giving a thumbs up!

 

[EMTDAD]

not to be picky.. but as an environmental professional, "MA DEP" caught my eye... thought this would be something juicy with MassDEP.

MassDEP is Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection under the Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs (EOEEA).

The Massachusetts Environmental Police are their own entity, also under EOEEA.

Two completely different entities

 

[LakeTrout]

Does the MA DEP legally need a reason to perform a check such as this? I'm curious because Fish and Game around here have the legal authority to perform, what I would consider certain types of searches, without such burden of probable cause that a crime has been committed that other law enforcement agencies are required to have. And I am wondering if these officers were doing just that.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Perhaps just checking to see if their papers were in order.

 

[Marty McFly]

Watch one episode of north woods law. Possibilities are endless

 

[FisherTech]

Does the MA DEP legally need a reason to perform a check such as this? I'm curious because Fish and Game around here have the legal authority to perform, what I would consider certain types of searches, without such burden of probable cause that a crime has been committed that other law enforcement agencies are required to have. And I am wondering if these officers were doing just that.

Hey, the guy doesn't even know the agency's name, how do you expect him to know anything else. Some folks just like to stir the pot.

 

[alcestwo]

Did you see them being pulled over or is it possible someone struck a deer and this was the kill/clean up crew?

Oh, I didn't think of that scenario at all. It's possible. Also, all three vehicles were already on the side of the road when I went by. So I didn't actually witness what provoked the meeting.

 

[alcestwo]

If they see a deer in the truck they can pull someone over and check it out for legality......tag filled out properly, right hunting implement used etc.....just doing thier job. Not sure why you would think this would be odd at all.

Back at the trailhead, none of this would have been surprising at all. The whole thing was probably routine, the location is what made it stand out to me.

 

[alcestwo]

not to be picky.. but as an environmental professional, "MA DEP" caught my eye... thought this would be something juicy with MassDEP.

MassDEP is Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection under the Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs (EOEEA).

The Massachusetts Environmental Police are their own entity, also under EOEEA.

Two completely different entities

My typo. The vehicles said Environmental Police. ETA - Not sure how to edit the title of the thread.

 

[ddeck]

And here I thought this thread was about using a 50 year old gun or any other firearm which derives a substantial part of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or because of its association with some historical figure, period, or event.

It's a strange typo which has a vastly different meaning.

 

[slugworth]

I thought environmental police have more authority than regular police don’t they??

 

[FisherTech]

I thought environmental police have more authority than regular police don’t they??

Actually? No. They have full police powers throughout the Commonwealth. The statute is very clear. They have all the powers of police officers and constables, with the exception of civil process. What makes them unique is that the mission is specific and the laws and regulations regarding those activities allows certain abilities.

 

[whacko]

Actually? No. They have full police powers throughout the Commonwealth. The statute is very clear. They have all the powers of police officers and constables, with the exception of civil process. What makes them unique is that the mission is specific and the laws and regulations regarding those activities allows certain abilities.

It's my understanding that those "activities allowing certain abilities" is that they can ask to search you just for being in the act of hunting or fishing. This is where alot of folks make the jump that they have "more authority". For example a local or state cop can't search someone's vehicle because they pull someone over for rolling a sign. They need some other probable cause to search. An epo, warden etc......if someone is in the parking lot of a wma for example with a shotgun the epo can search the person and vehicle looking for game. Am I correct on that?

 

[Asaltweapon]

It's my understanding that those "activities allowing certain abilities" is that they can ask to search you just for being in the act of hunting or fishing. This is where alot of folks make the jump that they have "more authority". For example a local or state cop can't search someone's vehicle because they pull someone over for rolling a sign. They need some other probable cause to search. An epo, warden etc......if someone is in the parking lot of a wma for example with a shotgun the epo can search the person and vehicle looking for game. Am I correct on that?

100% on my understanding. No big deal on traffic issues but god help ya if you were fishing or hunting.
If they suspect fish and game laws were being broken they won’t stop looking.

 

[Bigfudge16]

Mind your own damn business

 

[cams]

100% on my understanding. No big deal on traffic issues but god help ya if you were fishing or hunting.
If they suspect fish and game laws were being broken they won’t stop looking.

I may be misunderstanding the bolded but to clarify EP do have chapter 90 (motor vehicle law) powers in MA and can conduct motor vehicle stops on public roads and highways.

 

[Romokid]

I may be misunderstanding the bolded but to clarify EP do have chapter 90 (motor vehicle law) powers in MA and can conduct motor vehicle stops on public roads and highways.

Yes they can. I car blew by me on route 2 last year and evidently he also didn't see the EPO in the green truck 2 cars in front of me. Within seconds of passing all of us, the blue lights went on and he pulled the guy over. We were probably doing around 60-65 and the car was probably around 75ish.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Curios? Someone hunting Hummels?

Funny thing: one day when I was cleaning up all the litter the pigs leave in the parking lot at Naugy, I found a little figurine - lighthouse maybe - someone tossed in the woods. I'm picturing another relationship gone bad and it was chucked at the guy - at that very lot I've already gotten to witness one of those in progress. I brought it home, gave it a good cleaning, and gave it to my mother for her collection.

 

[FisherTech]

It's my understanding that those "activities allowing certain abilities" is that they can ask to search you just for being in the act of hunting or fishing. This is where alot of folks make the jump that they have "more authority". For example a local or state cop can't search someone's vehicle because they pull someone over for rolling a sign. They need some other probable cause to search. An epo, warden etc......if someone is in the parking lot of a wma for example with a shotgun the epo can search the person and vehicle looking for game. Am I correct on that?

Not really. Articulatable Probable Cause must be established. Such as, was the person seen putting game in the vehicle, was the firearm placed in or on the vehicle. In the case of the firearm, it can be checked to see if it is loaded. If a violation is found, then that may change the circumstances.
Many years ago, I watched a guy look around and then put fish in the trunk of his car and then return to fishing. When he came back to the car with more fish, and got ready to leave, I approached him and told him to display his catch. He got snitty, and was told what I saw. He was given the option to display the catch or I arrest him, and tow the car and get a warrant. His choice. Guess What?? Over limit of trout.

 

[whacko]

Not really. Articulatable Probable Cause must be established. Such as, was the person seen putting game in the vehicle, was the firearm placed in or on the vehicle. In the case of the firearm, it can be checked to see if it is loaded. If a violation is found, then that may change the circumstances.
Many years ago, I watched a guy look around and then put fish in the trunk of his car and then return to fishing. When he came back to the car with more fish, and got ready to leave, I approached him and told him to display his catch. He got snitty, and was told what I saw. He was given the option to display the catch or I arrest him, and tow the car and get a warrant. His choice. Guess What?? Over limit of trout.

Just picking your brain here.....
So....

If I'm coming back to my truck from small game hunting empty handed and an epo is in the parking lot and he asks me if I got anything an I say no.....he has to take my word for it? I mean I don't have any reason to argue with the boys in green and I hunt legal and would always state what I had if I had a successful day. I'm just trying to understand the process for my own knowledge. I did have an epo ASK me one time if he could inspect my vest....I'd been out on a wma stocked with pheasant and didn't get any. He asked if I had any luck and I said no.....then asked "can I check your vest" I said sure.....he took a look in my vest then checked my license then off he went. What would have been his possible response if I said he could not check my vest? He didn't see me put a bird in it (like you said about seeing a guy put fish in his trunk)

 

[Asaltweapon]

I may be misunderstanding the bolded but to clarify EP do have chapter 90 (motor vehicle law) powers in MA and can conduct motor vehicle stops on public roads and highways.

Yes. I realize that but it’s a pretty rare occurrence.
A very long time friend retired from MSP as a Capt. He told me straight out when he got his first cruiser that the EP’s in MA had more power than he did.
Here in Maine the wardens will stop for blatant MV infractions but it’s rare. They have more than enough to do with all the other stuff they manage. They are also thicker than thieves around here with the Greenville office a short 5 miles south of me so I see them all the time but never on a MV stop.
In fact the head warden is at a neighbors house now where a youngster (out of state renter) discharged a rifle on a 8pt. that appears to be the one I posted last week in my back yard. My neighbor who was born, raised and hunts here is a tad upset with the closeness of the shot being well short of the 300 foot law at 659 this morning. Unlike my side of the street where there’s lots of acreage the houses are much closer together on much smaller lots.

I should add in the over 27 years I’ve owned property up here only once was I stopped at a roadblock being conducted by the MWS. He asked if I had any fish or fishing gear in the car. I replied no. He then asked if I was carrying a firearm. I replied a loaded .45 in the console. He stepped back away and said you can proceed have a nice day and it was over.

 

[FisherTech]

Just picking your brain here.....
So....

If I'm coming back to my truck from small game hunting empty handed and an epo is in the parking lot and he asks me if I got anything an I say no.....he has to take my word for it? I mean I don't have any reason to argue with the boys in green and I hunt legal and would always state what I had if I had a successful day. I'm just trying to understand the process for my own knowledge. I did have an epo ASK me one time if he could inspect my vest....I'd been out on a wma stocked with pheasant and didn't get any. He asked if I had any luck and I said no.....then asked "can I check your vest" I said sure.....he took a look in my vest then checked my license then off he went. What would have been his possible response if I said he could not check my vest? He didn't see me put a bird in it (like you said about seeing a guy put fish in his trunk)

When I was on the job, I never asked to check a vest. I am sorry but if the Officer can't see some kind tell tale that something is in vest,,, Well you can already figure out my answer. For me though it would be, have at it. I will tell you this you can be asked to display your ammo. That is in the statute. I used to tell the guys and gals, "Remember that is most likely the only day the week that these folks have to themselves, Don't be a jerk! I not saying don't do your job".
For me, I never walked up to a deer stand or a duck blind unless I knew that there was violation there. Every time I did, I already knew about the violation, usually a baiting issue, or I was in my canoe watching the duck hunting area for late shooters. Enbloc already vouched for me as to how I worked.

 

[whacko]

When I was on the job, I never asked to check a vest. I am sorry but if the Officer can't see some kind tell tale that something is in vest,,, Well you can already figure out my answer. For me though it would be, have at it. I will tell you this you can be asked to display your ammo. That is in the statute. I used to tell the guys and gals, "Remember that is most likely the only day the week that these folks have to themselves, Don't be a jerk! I not saying don't do your job".
For me, I never walked up to a deer stand or a duck blind unless I knew that there was violation there. Every time I did, I already knew about the violation, usually a baiting issue, or I was in my canoe watching the duck hunting area for late shooters. Enbloc already vouched for me as to how I worked.

I don't doubt you were one of the good ones.
I did just like you said you would have done and said take a look I don't care.

 

[chris_1001]

not to be picky.. but as an environmental professional, "MA DEP" caught my eye... thought this would be something juicy with MassDEP.

MassDEP is Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection under the Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs (EOEEA).

The Massachusetts Environmental Police are their own entity, also under EOEEA.

Two completely different entities

 

[Mark from MA]

I don't doubt you were one of the good ones.
I did just like you said you would have done and said take a look I don't care.

I have a decent guy. I've been shooting the shit in a wma parking lot or in the middle of Barre Falls road, and been asked to show my license twice to him when he rode by on separate occasions.

One time my gun was on my tailgate (pump) and wasn't open, and i had two birds in my vest. He looked over but didn't say a thing.

I fully expected him to make me open my gun and check to see if it was unloaded which of course it was, and check my vest. But he didn't.
My gun is usually open and cased in the truck backseat, but some guy was talking to me while I was loading up, and derailed my normal procedure.

Its been my only interactions with a game warden in 35 years of hunting. Bowhunting....never seen a warden. Shotgun deer.....one left a hat on my truck once, but never saw the EPO.
I took it off and hung it on a tree branch within view, it was gone the next day.

 

[Admin]

Watch one episode of north woods law. Their powers are endless

FIFY

 

[Mark from MA]

Watch one episode of north woods law. Possibilities are endless

Gonna catch us a pocha tonight boys!

Meanwhile for the most part what it seems like is they are just off road revenue collectors for unregistered atv's and sleds, and giving trail speeding tickets.