Dashcam footage shows the moment Florida cops shoot dead two teens aged 18 and 19 after they drove toward a deputy

[SFC13557]

For a thought that is even less scientific: were the driver and passenger of the car posing an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to anyone? If you believe the officer thought so, and was justified in that belief then it is a good shoot. If not, then it wasn't. Everything else does not matter. It does not matter that the kids did not listen to instructions. It does not matter that they may have been hoodlums.

I'm not defending the Cops, I'm saying the teenagers made a fatal mistake whether they were guilty or not. One more time for the intellectually challenged here, If a Cop has a firearm pointed at you it's a good decision to obey simple commands like pull over, shut the ignition off, keep your hands where I can see them, etc.

 

[not new guy]

I try not to be in cars with people committing car robberies, not obeying police or trying to run over police.

The idea the passengers are not culpable for their own actions and decisions is ludicrous. As is the idea that a cop having a car coming at him can somehow magically control every bullet in that situation.

The car wasn't coming at him as he was shooting into it.

The idea that a cop is not culpable for his own actions and decisions is ludicrous. As is the idea that a cop having a car slowly drive around him can't make the decision to refrain from shooting into the side of it in that situation.

 

[HARRYM]

It's a bad shoot.

That is all, carry on.

 

[not new guy]

Your last question is a foolish one. You are trying to conflate ignoring a verbal command with having a deadly weapon driven at you. Its a false equivalence.

Had they pulled over, they'd be alive. You're argument that somehow police have all the responsibility and the people committing crimes have none is insulting.

It's not a foolish question, it is the only question that's relevant here. Did you watch the video, and have you been following the arguments of the esteemed Mr. SFC13557?

 

[SFC13557]

For a thought that is even less scientific: were the driver and passenger of the car posing an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to anyone? If you believe the officer thought so, and was justified in that belief then it is a good shoot. If not, then it wasn't. Everything else does not matter. It does not matter that the kids did not listen to instructions. It does not matter that they may have been hoodlums.

If the kids obeyed simple commands they'd most likely be alive.

 

[not new guy]

I'm not defending the Cops, I'm saying the teenagers made a fatal mistake whether they were guilty or not. One more time for the intellectually challenged here, If a Cop has a firearm pointed at you it's a good decision to obey simple commands like pull over, shut the ignition off, keep your hands where I can see them, etc.

Good shoot then? You say you're not defending the cops, but it sort of sounds like you are.

 

[not new guy]

If the kids obeyed simple commands they'd most likely be alive.

They didn't. Good shoot?

 

[kevin9]

You can see him turning hard right. He’s clearly trying to go around the cop.

Watch this video

Different report. Glean from it what you will.

Here's what I see:

1. 0:12-0:13 - The driver starts driving directly toward the officer
2. 0:14 - The officer then fires at the car coming at him from less than a car length away. At that distance, with a car accelerating at you, are you willing to bet on the driver turning away from you? I would not.
3. 0:16 - The driver then turns further to their right away from the officer firing at him, which is a natural reaction to being shot, or shot at. One cannot say definitively this was the driver's intention when he started the car forward turning toward the officer

Based on the videos seen to date, if I had to make a call right now; good shoot. I reserve the right to change my mind based on further facts yet to be revealed

 

[SFC13557]

It's not a foolish question, it is the only question that's relevant here. Did you watch the video, and have you been following the arguments of the esteemed Mr. SFC13557?

Stupid is, stupid does. new guy obviously has problems with authority like we all do because we live in The Peoples Republic of Ma. and we know how it feels to be abused by your elected officials and the authorities. I don't know if it was a good shoot or a bad shoot, the issue is the kids made a bad/fatal decision not complying. new guy, you are responsible for your actions. Nobody likes having interactions with the Police but if you do no matter the situation YOU OBEY THEIR COMMANDS until the situation gets resolved. Nuff said!

 

[mibro]

Watch this video

Here's what I see:

1. 0:12-0:13 - The driver starts driving directly toward the officer
2. 0:14 - The officer then fires at the car coming at him from less than a car length away. At that distance, with a car accelerating at you, are you willing to bet on the driver turning away from you? I would not.
3. 0:16 - The driver then turns further to their right away from the officer firing at him, which is a natural reaction to being shot, or shot at. One cannot say definitively this was the driver's intention when he started the car forward turning toward the officer

Based on the videos seen to date, if I had to make a call right now; good shoot. I reserve the right to change my mind based on further facts yet to be revealed

So did the cops enjoy the shoot, that's the question?

Looks to me like they did.

You don't get an opportunity to execute retarded teenagers every day.

 

[SFC13557]

They didn't. Good shoot?

Don't know but to late for the driver and passenger. We seem to be talking apples and oranges, you are focusing on the actions of the Cop and I'm trying to explain that's not the issue. The issue is the actions of the driver which caused the Cop to open fire. Remember, the Cop will always testify he/she felt their life was in danger..

 

[Palladin]

Wait for it.....






Didn't do nuffin

 

[not new guy]

Don't know but to late for the driver and passenger. We seem to be talking apples and oranges, you are focusing on the actions of the Cop and I'm trying to explain that's not the issue. The issue is the actions of the driver which caused the Cop to open fire. Remember, the Cop will always testify he/she felt their life was in danger..

Of course it's the issue. How can you say it isn't? Why do you think it's even a thread on here, or in the news? Nobody's debating that the kids were in the wrong, the question is obviously whether or not it was a good shoot. But thanks for educating all of us - nobody here could have figured out that it's a bad idea to disobey a cop shouting orders with his gun pointed at you. Thanks for resolving that big issue for all of us though.

 

[kevin9]

So did the cops enjoy the shoot, that's the question?

Looks to me like they did.

You don't get an opportunity to execute retarded children every day.

Such a non sequitur, red herring, feeling-projection reply to something that was not stated at all would imply that you stipulate to facts that were stated, whereupon I rest my case.

 

[HARRYM]

Wait for it.....






Didn't do nuffin

Well, as I understand it there was no probable cause for the stop. They "thought" the car was stolen. They had no evidence to make that stop. Do you want to live in an "I thought you were guilty" society? I don't. AS others have pointed out the car was indeed pulling around them. Get the plate and pick them up later.

 

[Palladin]

Well, as I understand it there was no probable cause for the stop. They "thought" the car was stolen. They had no evidence to make that stop. Do you want to live in an "I thought you were guilty" society? I don't. AS others have pointed out the car was indeed pulling around them. Get the plate and pick them up later.

Two cops have guns pointed at you telling you to stop. You stop, it's that simple

 

[Bonesinium]

I try not to be in cars with people committing car robberies, not obeying police or trying to run over police.

No. Your just the one who mischaracterizes what happens to justify cops killing people when there wasn’t need to. There was no “car robbery” and he wasn’t trying to run over police. But hey, you got one of the three claims right. Maybe if the cop had fired a few more rounds he could have killed all three!

 

[Bonesinium]

All this talk about how they deserved it because they were stupid. Well what’s more stupid then walking in front of a car if you think the driver is going to try and hit you? Especially when police policy says officers should not move in front of cars and should move out of the way rather than shooting. He did neither. In fact watching the video again, he appears to still be shooting after the car has gone by him and is continuing to turn away.

But nah, intentionally creating a situation that allows you to plausibly justify your use of deadly force, and killing two people is the way to go.

 

[SFC13557]

whether a good shoot or not will be adjudicated either by Police Dept or jury, new guy thinks cops have ESP and can read minds. Since I have been on both sides of the issue, as a dumb ass kid in the 70's driving around in my shitbox GTO with my buddies drinking beer and blasting Hendrix and being pulled over by the local Cops and as a Soldier in Bosnia dealing with heavily armed civilians and as a Soldier manning the front gate on a Military Base pulling over and searching cars/trucks you learn to give clear. concise commands and if not immediately obeyed to go to plan B which is violence.. You have a split second to react and then you have to live with it.

 

[HARRYM]

Two cops have guns pointed at you telling you to stop. You stop, it's that simple

I would yes, they didn't, but there is no visual evidence the Cops were in any danger. At that point, you only think the car is stolen. Let them pass and pick them up later.

 

[not new guy]

you learn to give clear. concise commands and if not immediately obeyed to go to plan B which is violence..

That's a pretty shitty approach to police work.

 

[SFC13557]

All this talk about how they deserved it because they were stupid. Well what’s more stupid then walking in front of a car if you think the driver is going to try and hit you? Especially when police policy says officers should not move in front of cars and should move out of the way rather than shooting. He did neither. In fact watching the video again, he appears to still be shooting after the car has gone by him and is continuing to turn away.

But nah, intentionally creating a situation that allows you to plausibly justify your use of deadly force, and killing two people is the way to go.

Nobody said they deserved it, they made a fatal mistake.

 

[not new guy]

whether a good shoot or not will be adjudicated either by Police Dept or jury, new guy thinks cops have ESP and can read minds.

What does mind reading have to do with the video and whether or not it was a good shoot?

 

[StevieP]

Best way to keep your car from getting stolen is to have a manual transmission.

Modern yutes have no idea what a clutch pedal is for

 

[not new guy]

not rocket science, obey Police commands. Ignore them and all bets are off.

When a cop has a gun drawn on you and you ignore/refuse his commands there's a good chance you get shot.

I do, especially when they are threatening a Cop or refusing simple commands like STOP! Any other stupid comments?

why is this so hard for you to understand? Were you taught to obey Police commands no matter what the situation? Were you taught to keep your hands on the wheel if pulled over by a Cop and to reply Yes Sir, No Sir? Not rocket science. YOU are responsible for your actions.

Actions have consequences and they made the wrong decision.

I'm not defending the Cops, I'm saying the teenagers made a fatal mistake whether they were guilty or not.

If the kids obeyed simple commands they'd most likely be alive.

the issue is the kids made a bad/fatal decision not complying. new guy, you are responsible for your actions. Nobody likes having interactions with the Police but if you do no matter the situation YOU OBEY THEIR COMMANDS until the situation gets resolved.

The issue is the actions of the driver which caused the Cop to open fire.

Nobody said they deserved it

What are you saying then? That they don't deserve the consequence of their fatally stupid actions? I think that's exactly what you are saying and you're getting all contorted because you're doing your damnedest to avoid criticizing the cop for killing the two people because... you're a former cop of some kind?

 

[mjbff]

Over kill

 

[SFC13557]

That's a pretty shitty approach to police work.

How so? It's a shitty job dealing with arrogant a**h***s and the dregs of society. So you want to debate a cop when he has a weapon drawn on you? One more time, not a smart move and actions have consequences.

 

[Bonesinium]

whether a good shoot or not will be adjudicated either by Police Dept

Lol. Yes, let’s leave it to the people who did the shooting to judge whether or not the shooting was justified.

This really says it all.

You’re not wrong. Cops indeed get to eat their cake and have it too.

 

[not new guy]

How so? It's a shitty job dealing with arrogant a**h***s and the dregs of society. So you want to debate a cop when he has a weapon drawn on you? One more time, not a smart move and actions have consequences.

Because violence isn't necessarily the right response to non-compliance? Because shooting someone isn't necessarily the right reaction to someone not obeying a cop's commands?

 

[Bonesinium]

No. Non compliance will be met with death. Haven’t you been paying attention to 2020? Soon this will apply to all things.

Don’t comply with mandatory mask wearing? Death.

Have Thanksgiving? Death.

Walk your dog? Death.

Eat at a restaurant? Death.

Exercise? Death.

Go outside past 10pm? Death.

Not watch CNN or follow Obama and AOC on Twitter at least 12 hours a day? Death.