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Technically,no.It(the rifle) was supposed to have left the FACTORY as a complete rifle in 'assault weapon' configuration.The reason behind this was to try to stop people from circumventing the law by buying a bunch of stripped lowers prior to 9/94 and turning them into evil baby killing machines at a later date.
I don't think this little techincality has stopped a bunch of people from doing it though.
I don't think this little techincality has stopped a bunch of people from doing it though.
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Not true. If the gun was assembled in an AW config before the cutoff
date it too is eligible... because the person who assembled it thus has
then created a "rifle with evil features" and not just a reciever. The gun
does not (always) have to be a factory preban in order to have preban status.
-Mike
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icyclefar
NES Member
As the cut-off date for the AWB started getting closer, manufacturers would simply take their lowers, slap an upper on it and remove it. It wasn't unusual for one upper to have been mounted on 100s of different lowers.
How many of those lowers were sold as incomplete rifles after 09/13/94 is anyones guess, but legally, they could be built into a pre-ban configuration
after the AWB went into effect.
Mike is 100% right.
I own one such pre-ban. The original owner had Carl build it up for him pre-9/13/94, subsequently he passed away and Carl liquidated the estate. Perfectly legal.
The part many "intentionally forget" is that pre-9/13/94, it HAD to have been assembled as a pre-ban with evil features! Lots of folks just think that any lower made pre-9/13/94 is an "automatic pre-ban" wrt AWB and this was NOT true for the Fed ban and it is NOT true for the MA ban!!
I own one such pre-ban. The original owner had Carl build it up for him pre-9/13/94, subsequently he passed away and Carl liquidated the estate. Perfectly legal.
The part many "intentionally forget" is that pre-9/13/94, it HAD to have been assembled as a pre-ban with evil features! Lots of folks just think that any lower made pre-9/13/94 is an "automatic pre-ban" wrt AWB and this was NOT true for the Fed ban and it is NOT true for the MA ban!!
Gotcha.
I have heard both versions before,leaving the factory in AW configuration and leaving the factory as a complete rifle.For some reason the AW configuration stuck in my memory.
I would like to see the statistic of how many people were prosecuted for having an AW or LE/MIL mags during the years 94-04.
I have heard both versions before,leaving the factory in AW configuration and leaving the factory as a complete rifle.For some reason the AW configuration stuck in my memory.
I would like to see the statistic of how many people were prosecuted for having an AW or LE/MIL mags during the years 94-04.
icyclefar
NES Member
So I am told ................. ZERO ................ but then again no one has stepped up to volunteer to be the "test case"
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
As long as the letter spells out that it included all evil features ......... good enough for me.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
As long as the letter spells out that it included all evil features ......... good enough for me.
Really? Then YOU be the test case.
The idea of a receiver that did not even exist until AFTER the ban being legally built into a pre-ban configuration is absurd.
As is most "legal advice" obtained from the anonymous wanna-bes on the net.........
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
icyclefar
NES Member
Scrivener ............... I thought we were starting under the premis that the lower was verifiable pre-ban.
when all is said and done my point was:
1. If the lower is verified pre-ban, I'm happy.
2. If the seller of the verified pre-ban lower will certify to me that it existed as a complete rifle with all evil features prior to the ban, then I'm happier.
all in keeping with LenS comment, and as far as I can tell, and the law
You were; I wasn't.
You were right; I was wrong.
I confused this thread with another on this forum, in which an allegedly "pre-ban" gun wasn't:
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18114
In that case, a letter, notarized or otherwise, will not save you. However, it may in this case, where the lower does appear to be "pre-ban."
My apologies for the unwarranted "correction" and any resulting confusion. Sometimes "multi-tasking" just means making more mistakes, while getting less done.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
![[wave]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/011.gif "Wave [wave]")
icyclefar
NES Member
NO, NO, NO ........... I can not consider your minor error as my victory. This is still in many ways a team sport!
In an arena of "grey area" it can take a bit of discussion to color things to black and white.
preban lower with postban upper?
After some searching I have some questions that seem relevant to this thread please:
If you have a preban lower can you put any postban upper configuration you want on it? -Or for that matter any upper you want on it pre/post ban provided your are not turning the rifle into and SBR or something covered by NFA regs.
And to build up a configuration like this legally in MA the preban lower has to come from a rifle that was built and left the factory as a complete unit prior to the 9/94 AWB.......so you effectively need to buy a complete preban rifle first and then you can build up with any upper you like?
I see at the start of this thread it was asked if you had a preban lower with some evidence that it came from a complete rifle which sounds like it also may work but it seems like a somewhat lower risk plan-and more costly![[frown]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/003.gif "Frown [frown]")
-is to buy a complete preban rifle and go from there?
After some searching I have some questions that seem relevant to this thread please:
If you have a preban lower can you put any postban upper configuration you want on it? -Or for that matter any upper you want on it pre/post ban provided your are not turning the rifle into and SBR or something covered by NFA regs.
And to build up a configuration like this legally in MA the preban lower has to come from a rifle that was built and left the factory as a complete unit prior to the 9/94 AWB.......so you effectively need to buy a complete preban rifle first and then you can build up with any upper you like?
I see at the start of this thread it was asked if you had a preban lower with some evidence that it came from a complete rifle which sounds like it also may work but it seems like a somewhat lower risk plan-and more costly
-is to buy a complete preban rifle and go from there?
Please read the past info on this (Stickies and threads) . . . I know it is confusing!
Pre-ban legally means that AT SOME TIME prior to 9/13/94 it was built (or kitted) together with an upper with "evil features". It did not have to leave the factory that way (although proving provenance becomes more difficult).
If it is a legal Pre-ban, you can assemble it any way you wish (other than NFA/SBR issues).
Pre-ban legally means that AT SOME TIME prior to 9/13/94 it was built (or kitted) together with an upper with "evil features". It did not have to leave the factory that way (although proving provenance becomes more difficult).
If it is a legal Pre-ban, you can assemble it any way you wish (other than NFA/SBR issues).
