Dementia and Firearms Safety

MaverickNH

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I saw this book mentioned in NRA’s Rifleman magazine and just sent for it from Amazon. Recently visiting an estate attorney, my wife and I enquirer about how one might handle a situation where one of us becomes sufficiently mentally disabled that guns should be removed by the home for storage elsewhere. The NH lawyer said they don’t deal with such issues and made recommendations wrt healthcare proxies - not much help. We plan to formalize a document where the family can limit access if a mental healthcare professional finds one of us mentally incompetent to do other common stuff safely, like driving, walking in the woods, cook, etc.

My father-in-law always said, if his wife predeceased him, that when his time came, he’d take a last long walk in the woods with a gun - and we shouldn’t come looking for him too quickly, so the wildlife could scatter the evidence. Sadly, he went first from kidney failure. But I have the same sentiments.

I had reviewed a manuscript for Annals of Internal medicine in 2020 that reported on caregiver surveys on guns and dementia - two reviewers gave it an unequivocal thumbs up, as it recommended more medical intervention and training on the dangers of guns. I pointed out that the survey actually indicated the caregivers overwhelmingly felt that things were being dealt with well enough by family members, whether the caregiver was a family member or an external party. The editor rejected the paper. It got re-worked to remove that data and analysis and published in JAMAOpen with several big-name gun control academics on the author list. They only kept the parts about caregivers having little no training on guns and their opinion that professionals should be involved, not the parts where no intervention seemed necessary. I wrote editors of both journals, both of whom did nothing…as expected.


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Not only that if you have been invoked and still own your guns I don’t think you can legally sell/ transfer them to anyone.
 
Problem with dementia is that one can't self assess.
You need trusted people around you to help

This.
If you're at the point of seeing things that aren't there. You've become a risk if you have neighbors.

It's a juggling act. You don't want to act too soon as they're still themselves. For the most part. But you can't really do that, from a personal safety perspective. One person can degrade faster than another. Unless you live with them, you'd never see it.

I do agree w/ @MaverickNH that taking the long walk is, in mind. The simplest way to handle things once you start seeing dead pets/relatives in your kitchen.
 
I do agree w/ @MaverickNH that taking the long walk is, in mind. The simplest way to handle things once you start seeing dead pets/relatives in your kitchen.
Taking a long walk with a gun is a final gift of statistical ammo to the interdictionists who would deprive us of our gun rights.

There are less messy, painless ways to accomplish the same goal - and if you are concerned about posthumous indictment, you can travel to a state where you can pay thousands for the medical consult and overpriced Rx to do the job.

The often try to hang a death on a spouse, so anyone doing such a thing because of incurable illness with a painful decline needs to go to extensive lengths to document that there was no fou play for the sake of any survivor who stands to benefit from your death.
 
Taking a long walk with a gun is a final gift of statistical ammo to the interdictionists who would deprive us of our gun rights.

There are less messy, painless ways to accomplish the same goal - and if you are concerned about posthumous indictment, you can travel to a state where you can pay thousands for the medical consult and overpriced Rx to do the job.

The often try to hang a death on a spouse, so anyone doing such a thing because of incurable illness with a painful decline needs to go to extensive lengths to document that there was no fou play for the sake of any survivor who stands to benefit from your death.
Or travel to Canada and tell ‘em you have the flu. They’ll provide euthanasia as an option ✅
 
Or travel to Canada and tell ‘em you have the flu. They’ll provide euthanasia as an option ✅
I thought that was only if you were on the Canadian socialized health plan, and it would save the system money. For a visitor, it would be an expense to the government, not a cost savings.
 
Problem with dementia is that one can't self assess.
You need trusted people around you to help
It depends on how f***** up someone is I think the scariest part of the whole thing is that most people are self-aware at least at the beginning .....watching someone slowly lose their shit upstairs isn't pretty, imho its one of the most depressing things ive ever witnessed.

In a lot of ways it's infinitely scarier than just dying. You end up being this animatronic meat puppet that may not even be able to remember your own name.
 
Taking a long walk with a gun is a final gift of statistical ammo to the interdictionists who would deprive us of our gun rights.

There are less messy, painless ways to accomplish the same goal - and if you are concerned about posthumous indictment, you can travel to a state where you can pay thousands for the medical consult and overpriced Rx to do the job.

The often try to hang a death on a spouse, so anyone doing such a thing because of incurable illness with a painful decline needs to go to extensive lengths to document that there was no fou play for the sake of any survivor who stands to benefit from your death.

Having spoken to first responders who've seen and have had to clean up after things like this are done inside a home. Returning to the earth, so to speak. Is the better alternative.

I fully appreciate the legal side of the scenario. I live alone. I don't worry about those things.

I guess that when we eventually get our Maid pods we get to be statistics in the inverse and will grow that industry, because it's so much more compassionate.
 
It depends on how f***** up someone is I think the scariest part of the whole thing is that most people are self-aware at least at the beginning .....watching someone slowly lose their shit upstairs isn't pretty, imho its one of the most depressing things ive ever witnessed.

In a lot of ways it's infinitely scarier than just dying. You end up being this animatronic meat puppet that may not even be able to remember your own name.
Watched the pain in my mother in law's eyes when my wife and I walked in and she greeted me but couldn't remember my wife's name.
She knew she should know her, knew I was her son in law and knew we were married. But she couldn't put together that my wife was her youngest child.
It only.got worse as she became scared and combative because nothing was familiar anymore.
 
I misspoke.. Sorry.

When they're called and have to put the body in the ambulance.
Are they still not cleaning up after the fact?
As far as fire/ems if the person doesn't meet the threshold to get cpr they are left in place and picked up by the coroner most of the time. If its unwitnessed or potentially suspicious in anyway its the polices problem before anyone's allowed to move the body.

Dead people don't go in ambulances unless they have enough signs of life to work on them. Otherwise the ambulance and hospital want nothing to do with them.

As for clean up it depends. Sometimes its minor and the home owner can take care of it. Other times its a horror show and professional cleaning crews have to be brought in and its incredibly expensive...like tens if thousands of dollars.

I am aware of situations where the 1st responders knew the suicide and family who came back after work to help clean. But this is not an on duty task.

Sure, if an old person falls and has a skin tear and bleeds all over we will try to clean that up as we usually have enough man power to clean that while someone else throws them in the ambulance but that's as far as that goes.
 
As far as fire/ems if the person doesn't meet the threshold to get cpr they are left in place and picked up by the coroner most of the time. If its unwitnessed or potentially suspicious in anyway its the polices problem before anyone's allowed to move the body.

Dead people don't go in ambulances unless they have enough signs of life to work on them. Otherwise the ambulance and hospital want nothing to do with them.

As for clean up it depends. Sometimes its minor and the home owner can take care of it. Other times its a horror show and professional cleaning crews have to be brought in and its incredibly expensive...like tens if thousands of dollars.

I am aware of situations where the 1st responders knew the suicide and family who came back after work to help clean. But this is not an on duty task.

Sure, if an old person falls and has a skin tear and bleeds all over we will try to clean that up as we usually have enough man power to clean that while someone else throws them in the ambulance but that's as far as that goes.

Running on insomnia, I'll consult my thesaurus next time.
Colloquial "clean up" vs clean up.
Clear as mud.
(I never meant they're cleaning out the cupboards, or squeegee a floor.)


I do understand your sentiment out being found outside. Either you put a cop through the trauma, or risk a kid and their dog finding you. If a bear didn't finish the task.

We'll just have to wait until we're supplied a booth at every corner.
 
Running on insomnia, I'll consult my thesaurus next time.
Colloquial "clean up" vs clean up.
Clear as mud.
(I never meant they're cleaning out the cupboards, or squeegee a floor.)

When people die theres often a mess. From pee to poop in the simple cases to the person melting into the bed/floor/bathtub/whatever.

All depends on how the person died, where the died and how long theyve been dead.
 
When my Dad passed, my stepmom called me to "get the damn guns out of the house". I took the half dozen firearms out of the safe and she was happy. When she passed and I could finally rummage through and clean up the house I found a handgun locked in an old toolbox in the workshop, and two in different locations in the attic. When we prep'ed the house for sale I gave it another good look and didn't find anything, but I would not bet $1 that I got them all.

Dad the old Boy Scout, Be Prepared
 
Taking a long walk with a gun is a final gift of statistical ammo to the interdictionists who would deprive us of our gun rights.

There are less messy, painless ways to accomplish the same goal - and if you are concerned about posthumous indictment, you can travel to a state where you can pay thousands for the medical consult and overpriced Rx to do the job.

The often try to hang a death on a spouse, so anyone doing such a thing because of incurable illness with a painful decline needs to go to extensive lengths to document that there was no fou play for the sake of any survivor who stands to benefit from your death.

I'd think that pulling into the garage, closing the door, opening the window and leaving the engine running would be one of the less messy ways of doing it. Assuming that one lives alone.
 
I'd think that pulling into the garage, closing the door, opening the window and leaving the engine running would be one of the less messy ways of doing it. Assuming that one lives alone.
Are emissions still deadly enough, or could you just end up in a vegetative state?
 
Dead people don't go in ambulances unless they have enough signs of life to work on them. Otherwise the ambulance and hospital want nothing to do with them.

One dreary morning a while back I was standing at my kitchen sink and noticed some activity across the street. I knew the family that lived there, the elderly widow of a WWII veteran (deceased) and her adult son. IIRC correctly an ambulance (or some other vehicle) left, no lights or noise, just two guys get in and leave.

There was a guy who looked like a plains clothes LEO leaning against his car, just waiting. Soon a station wagon-like vehicle rolled up and two guys pulled a gurney out of the back, wheeled it into the house. Came out 5 minutes later with a long black bag on it. Apparently the woman passed in her sleep.

All very low key, no traffic (dead end street), if I hadn't looked out my window I wouldn't have known.
 
Are emissions still deadly enough, or could you just end up in a vegetative state?
Good question. I imagine if the space is enclosed enough and the car runs long enough it'll work. Wouldn't do it in a yuge garage w/ 1/8 tank of gas...
 
I'd think that pulling into the garage, closing the door, opening the window and leaving the engine running would be one of the less messy ways of doing it. Assuming that one lives alone.
Not that easy with modern emissions controls, unless you use a generator/snowblower/lawn tractor/etc. Your next of kin still has to deal with attendant post mortem drippings and the like.
 
Not that easy with modern emissions controls, unless you use a generator/snowblower/lawn tractor/etc. Your next of kin still has to deal with attendant post mortem drippings and the like.
Good to know. I did mention if you lived alone.
 
I watched my mother from start to end as she suffered dementia/Alzheimer's. If I am going down that road one of you please come and take all my guns and while you're at it put a shot or two right between my eyes and end my suffering. Wouldn't wish dementia/Alzheimer's on anyone.
 
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