Destroyed first die - problem with .223 redding premium

paul73

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Well, i got defeated. 6.5CM set and .308 sets worked out ok.

.223 was a disaster. My 20" stealth Larue apparently has much fatter chamber than the 16" pencil barrel one. so, the shot brass from 20" one ends up at .376 3 mm from the rim. new brass is .372 there, and .370 up.
FL redding die was barely setting it to .373, and it made it getting hopelessly stuck in the 16" barrel, it was almost impossible to pull charging handle out.

plus, the brass was getting constantly stuck in the die. it was cleaned, tumbled and sprayed - but it was useless. i got is stuck there twice almost permanently, and got one stem destroyed extracting it. it would only work pretty much only it i would drop hoppes #9 on the shell, rub it around plenty, then it would go up into the die and get out without ripping off the rim and getting stuck. i am pretty sure it is not supposed to be like that, as it is retarded, but, the worst part that even after all that trouble FL resizing would still have shells too large to fit properly into 16" barrel. it is really frustrating.

i am now trying to order cheap rcbs die set and will get dillon original .223 set as well - as redding premium 3 die set for $137 ended up being useless. very frustrating. that i still do not understand is why it was getting stuck so bad and why it would not resize it back to at least .371 and would keep it at .373. sad waste of time.
 
so, i get a feel that the only solution here may be to spend even more $ and end up with 2 heads for the damn .223 - where first head would have to deprime/resize function and second head would be set with powder and priming and bullet seating functions.
the i could setup first head in station 1 with FL die set to go halfway into that stupid brass - as after all the experiments today i established that if i under-screw the FL die by about of 5mm or so it does not get stuck that bad. then a station 2 perhaps would have an another FL sizer die but screwed in properly, so it would take in a half-resized brass and run it again. sounds like an idiocy to me, but i am out of ideas.
i still hope i just got a bad die, as some reviews i just found on that specific redding premium die were complaining about similar issues, some people seems to use 400 sandpaper to polish it - not sure if polishing it would help much. go figure.

the most annoying part was - both 6.5CM .308 FL dies resize perfectly dry brass with no getting stuck at all. and a lubed one goes smooth as butter. what the hell was wrong with .223 is beyond me.
 
Well, i got defeated. 6.5CM set and .308 sets worked out ok.

.223 was a disaster. My 20" stealth Larue apparently has much fatter chamber than the 16" pencil barrel one. so, the shot brass from 20" one ends up at .376 3 mm from the rim. new brass is .372 there, and .370 up.
FL redding die was barely setting it to .373, and it made it getting hopelessly stuck in the 16" barrel, it was almost impossible to pull charging handle out.

plus, the brass was getting constantly stuck in the die. it was cleaned, tumbled and sprayed - but it was useless. i got is stuck there twice almost permanently, and got one stem destroyed extracting it. it would only work pretty much only it i would drop hoppes #9 on the shell, rub it around plenty, then it would go up into the die and get out without ripping off the rim and getting stuck. i am pretty sure it is not supposed to be like that, as it is retarded, but, the worst part that even after all that trouble FL resizing would still have shells too large to fit properly into 16" barrel. it is really frustrating.

i am now trying to order cheap rcbs die set and will get dillon original .223 set as well - as redding premium 3 die set for $137 ended up being useless. very frustrating. that i still do not understand is why it was getting stuck so bad and why it would not resize it back to at least .371 and would keep it at .373. sad waste of time.
The only cases that I ever get stuck in a die is 223, and it's always in my RCBS die. I now take some of the hornady case lube/wax, lube up my fingers, and then smear some on the cases. They don't get stuck. But, case lube sprays and the like, forget about it, stuck case. You have to lube those little suckers up. If you want to borrow the dies, I could meet you at HSC if you'd like.

 
I agree with Tallahassee completely and use the same lube. Smear it all over the case with your fingers and then size. Its messy and occasionally causes a small harmless dent on the shoulder but no stuck cases.
 
The only cases that I ever get stuck in a die is 223, and it's always in my RCBS die. I now take some of the hornady case lube/wax, lube up my fingers, and then smear some on the cases. They don't get stuck. But, case lube sprays and the like, forget about it, stuck case. You have to lube those little suckers up. If you want to borrow the dies, I could meet you at HSC if you'd like.

I used only the spray, so, will get the lube.
Core of the issue still is oversized brass that does not go into my second rifle.

I found this die - Redding small base body.
Redding 223 Remington Body Die Amazon product ASIN B000GU9XLGView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GU9XLG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AP6VEEYCDX7Y3HQRR6WC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Is it safe to run it in station 3 - after priming/powder? Can stress from a sizing die pressure to set off a primer?

Or I can try to make a contraption to move powder drop to station 3 somehow. The standard FL die was not sizing base of the brass far enough.
 
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Don't know about others but bottle neck cartridges are a multi pass operation for me
At a minimum
1 - deprime and size On press
2 - trim and deburr
3 - clean to remove lube and shavings from trim/deburr
4 - back on the press to load

If your brass is expanding that much I'd have the chamber cast and checked on the rifle - sounds like a bad chamber - precision rifle should be tight not loose.

I haven't looked up SAAMI chamber specs to go over your numbers but that's the first place I'd start - Cerro cast is relatively cheap and easy to use
 
I use the Lyman pad and lube. Put 20 (?) Cases on the pad and roll the while bunch. Toss into a bag, rinse and repeat. When there are at least 1k, I can start loading. Usually, I do a run of 4k then let the blisters heal before cleaning then trimming on the Giraud. I can then load at whatever pace I choose. I use Hornady dies pretty much for every caliber I load.
 
I used only the spray, so, will get the lube.
Core of the issue still is oversized brass that does not go into my second rifle.

I found this die - Redding small base body.
Redding 223 Remington Body Die Amazon product ASIN B000GU9XLGView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GU9XLG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AP6VEEYCDX7Y3HQRR6WC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Is it safe to run it in station 3 - after priming/powder? Can stress from a sizing die pressure to set off a primer?

Or I can try to make a contraption to move powder drop to station 3 somehow. The standard FL die was not sizing base of the brass far enough.
Like Walter said, you have to let that stuff dry. I was in a rush one time, sprayed, and tried resizing. No bueno.
 
One more annoyance. Is that 6.5CM top of the line competition seating die with a micrometer supposed to leave such scratching marks on the bullet?
I triple checked internals and cleaned/lubed/wiped it - seems visually fine but still does that. Why?
It is only on one side. Can it be fixed? How?
 

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One more annoyance. Is that 6.5CM top of the line competition seating die with a micrometer supposed to leave such scratching marks on the bullet?
I triple checked internals and cleaned/lubed/wiped it - seems visually fine but still does that. Why?
It is only on one side. Can it be fixed? How?

Has that bullet been seated, and then pulled back out?
 
One more annoyance. Is that 6.5CM top of the line competition seating die with a micrometer supposed to leave such scratching marks on the bullet?
I triple checked internals and cleaned/lubed/wiped it - seems visually fine but still does that. Why?
It is only on one side. Can it be fixed? How?
Did you pull that bullet? Are those marks from the neck?
If not, do you have the right seating stem in the die.
 
Did you pull that bullet? Are those marks from the neck?
If not, do you have the right seating stem in the die.
No one pulled it out and it is correct seating stem according to what is written on the pack.
Bullet was on top of shell, pressed in, out - marks as shown.

It has to be that ledge inside of the die where seater piston moves. What the hell.
F7FAEF64-41BA-4C73-9DCA-3C4C2C2B3E34.jpeg
 
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No one pulled it out and it is correct seating stem according to what is written on the pack.
Bullet was on top of shell, pressed in, out - marks as shown.
Good thing with Redding, a person answers their phone. I'd give them a ring in the morning. They will do you right and fix it.
 
Good thing with Redding, a person answers their phone. I'd give them a ring in the morning. They will do you right and fix it.
Dunno. Is there any alternative for a micrometer seater die comparable to that one?
I see people bitching now on forum about that and Redding apparently making them ship it at your own cost. I will try to call them, will see. So far it is quite frustrating- like nothing fecking works as it should. What the… :(

That damn edge had to be machined at 45deg not to score the bullet on its entrance, but it is not done and it’s sharp. I scored it - less but visible - just by trying to push it in by hand. It may be by design, a bad one.

When press pushes it in it scores much deeper.
F1BA5D6B-602F-458D-B373-1B0AF880E4AB.jpeg
 
Reloading for AR's or any gas operated semi auto I use small base dies, I usually lube with hornady one shot or a traditional RCBS lube pad.
 
Dunno. Is there any alternative for a micrometer seater die comparable to that one?
I see people bitching now on forum about that and Redding apparently making them ship it at your own cost. I will try to call them, will see. So far it is quite frustrating- like nothing fecking works as it should. What the… :(

That damn edge had to be machined at 45deg not to score the bullet on its entrance, but it is not done and it’s sharp. I scored it - less but visible - just by trying to push it in by hand. It may be by design, a bad one.

When press pushes it in it scores much deeper.
View attachment 537832
Im not familiar with reddings comp seating dies. Why does the seating stem sit so low on the bullet? Figure the seating stem should only contact the ogive ?
 
Dunno. Is there any alternative for a micrometer seater die comparable to that one?
I see people bitching now on forum about that and Redding apparently making them ship it at your own cost. I will try to call them, will see. So far it is quite frustrating- like nothing fecking works as it should. What the… :(

That damn edge had to be machined at 45deg not to score the bullet on its entrance, but it is not done and it’s sharp. I scored it - less but visible - just by trying to push it in by hand. It may be by design, a bad one.

When press pushes it in it scores much deeper.
View attachment 537832
Mac1911 already beat me to it. The bullet shouldn't be making contact with the seater in that area. You might get a ring mark, but not that scratch. Which bullet are you trying to use?
 
Dunno. Is there any alternative for a micrometer seater die comparable to that one?
I see people bitching now on forum about that and Redding apparently making them ship it at your own cost. I will try to call them, will see. So far it is quite frustrating- like nothing fecking works as it should. What the… :(

That damn edge had to be machined at 45deg not to score the bullet on its entrance, but it is not done and it’s sharp. I scored it - less but visible - just by trying to push it in by hand. It may be by design, a bad one.

When press pushes it in it scores much deeper.
View attachment 537832
Its not there Fault (redding) that customers dont read the Warranty BEFORE they buy
Lifetime Warranty


All Redding Reloading Equipment has been carefully inspected prior to shipment and is fully warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for life. SAECO products that are now manufactured by Redding will carry our same warranty.

Any product or parts which prove to be defective will be replaced or repaired without charge if returned prepaid to the factory.

Note: We reserve the right to decline responsibility where misuse or careless handling is evident or where repairs or modifications have been made or attempted by others.
 
Its not there Fault (redding) that customers dont read the Warranty BEFORE they buy
Lifetime Warranty


All Redding Reloading Equipment has been carefully inspected prior to shipment and is fully warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for life. SAECO products that are now manufactured by Redding will carry our same warranty.

Any product or parts which prove to be defective will be replaced or repaired without charge if returned prepaid to the factory.

Note: We reserve the right to decline responsibility where misuse or careless handling is evident or where repairs or modifications have been made or attempted by others.
Based on what people speak off that warranty in reality is a BS.
I do not care of their issues, what I have there is shitty machining with a razor sharp ledge left, I found a matching bit to polish it and take off the edge.

You need to look up what that die is - it has a piston moving in that hole, micrometer pushes piston up and down - that section is polished, almost air tight fit. The edge was not smoothed and is scratching. I think I will be able to sort it out.
 
Mac1911 already beat me to it. The bullet shouldn't be making contact with the seater in that area. You might get a ring mark, but not that scratch. Which bullet are you trying to use?
Hornady eld match 140gr. Bullet fits piston opening fine, dimensions wise it is there, once I smooth out entering edge I think it should work. Will see.

It is a seater die from this set. And a $200 is not a guarantee for anything anymore.
 
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i think i start getting a strong antipathy toward redding.
i just received the cheap non-pretentious set of RCBS .223 dies - $44.
Amazon product ASIN B000KORRLGView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KORRLG/


compared to the $137 redding set its FL die worked flawlessly - nothing got stuck at all on 5 shells i just ran from same batch i prepared earlier that was getting stuck in redding, and the brass got sized to .371 where redding did .373 - so i tried it on my 16" rifle and shell ran into it just fine. so the FL die is set for now, it seems. and no need for that extra small base body die.
will see.

the seater die from rcbs kinda sucks - it leaves very distinctive ring on the 73gr bullet, so, i guess i will have to get back to redding die on that. but not a competition one, as that design seems to suck too - i got a bit of an improvement with 6.5CM die, but it still leaves some SMALLER but still visible marks on the bullet after an hour of polishing and dancing with a tambourine around it - it needs proper machinery to be fixed and i do not have it in the house. it was pretty obvious that was wrong - when i reversed the piston and tried to run it upside down through that chamber all way through - at the lower end it was getting stuck - you cannot see it optically, but, there must be some bulge in there - my guess is the operator pushed the lathe too fast in and it created the unevenness, and then they just polished it and left as is. f***ers. when piston is operated normally it does not reach that spot, but the bullet on the way in gets scraped. lousy job.
maybe i should finally buy myself a little lathe machine - something like that, may be.
i used to be good with that stuff.

anyway, i think the other design seater die i had and sent back with a kit was the best one - one with the micrometer on top but no funky piston in the chamber like a competition model.
it is used in the kits they have for the 'premium' models - but i am failing to find that die to be sold aside, alone.
it has a solid body and no moving tube with the piston like the competition one does. it was setting bullets in .223 perfectly. but the FL sizer die it came with sucked.

PS. i am just frankly astonished how retardedly inferior all those tools are. i am just an engineer, but, f***, i just see all the things they did cut costs on, how a may be 10 more minutes of more work could have fixed all those issues on shit they sell for 200 bucks, and it is infuriating. it is always easy to criticize, i know, but, damn, an every time i get into something new DIY kind stuff it just strikes how half-ass things get done. and it is not just about guns, it is a pretty much general statement.
and i am frankly not even inclined to make a fuss with them, as i can afford my failed experiments, to start a never ending correspondence with some chinese mothrf***ers who will rather die and gut their mothers than to spend $3 on fixing their failed product - f*** them, i do not care.

it is not too different with car racing gear, when you can get set of dogbones for $350, but you do not do that and get a set for $2500 - as it comes from a 65yr old dude from indiana who actually honors his name and product and makes it in such a way that does not make you to hate your life and spend more time and $ to give it to local shop for resizing and adjustments, as it is exactly 3mm bigger than the actual dimension of your car.
rant over, weekend over, thanks to all, i gonna get another beer.

it is a fun thing, this reloading, i think i am almost there. :) now i know it is an another field where premium price does not mean shit and gives you same chinisium fecal matter that needs to be refinished, remilled and reprocessed to make it work as expected.
 
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HA! i won.
so, i had no way to polish the f@ckers chamber, or resize it properly - and after one more beer before this one now i finally got it - this is how:
i pulled the bullet a bit out of the brass. then in the vice pressed it just a smidge at the base, so it would be fitting under solid pressure into the die tube.
into the drill - polish solution on - and it is fixed. no more marks on the bullet as it gets into the die. damn, i am getting rusty with this shit.
the thinking of ways of how it is supposed to be done 'correctly' is totally counterproductive.
just smash damn space station with the hammer, it deserves it.

1635740739949.png
 
Based on what people speak off that warranty in reality is a BS.
I do not care of their issues, what I have there is shitty machining with a razor sharp ledge left, I found a matching bit to polish it and take off the edge.

You need to look up what that die is - it has a piston moving in that hole, micrometer pushes piston up and down - that section is polished, almost air tight fit. The edge was not smoothed and is scratching. I think I will be able to sort it out.
Sadly even though redding is a small company IIRC they fall under a larger ownership. So im sure production quality suffered over production out the door.
Hopefully when or if you call and can present your pictures they will ship one out FOC. Lee has done this for me a few times. Although they charge shipping . As we move forward in the crazy cost increases . Asking companies to eat shipping costs is going to completely fade.
I do have reading dies, basic die sets though and they are very nice. Sadly I feel like so many other industries we are loosing good knowledge and interest in the product they are producing.
Would not shock me if even 20 years ago readding was close to all employees being interested in the shooting sports to less than half today.
 
Hornady eld match 140gr. Bullet fits piston opening fine, dimensions wise it is there, once I smooth out entering edge I think it should work. Will see.

It is a seater die from this set. And a $200 is not a guarantee for anything anymore.
Been saying this for the past 20 years. “NEW Means Nothing”
Only thing we can hope for is the manufacture corrects the problem.
 
HA! i won.
so, i had no way to polish the f@ckers chamber, or resize it properly - and after one more beer before this one now i finally got it - this is how:
i pulled the bullet a bit out of the brass. then in the vice pressed it just a smidge at the base, so it would be fitting under solid pressure into the die tube.
into the drill - polish solution on - and it is fixed. no more marks on the bullet as it gets into the die. damn, i am getting rusty with this shit.
the thinking of ways of how it is supposed to be done 'correctly' is totally counterproductive.
just smash damn space station with the hammer, it deserves it.

View attachment 537983
F’n Hack [thumbsup]
My dad used to say ….the right way, the wrong way and then there is the get it done way.
 
F’n Hack [thumbsup]
My dad used to say ….the right way, the wrong way and then there is the get it done way.
Yeah, that thing pissed me off good yesterday :)
It is a good design, theoretically, but obviously requires tolerances their manufacturing is incapable to maintain.
 
This may sound like a dumb question but are you sure you're using the correct shell holder or shell plate? The one for 9mm will sometimes work but is a loose fit and can result in stuck cases and ripped rims. The correct one is the .380.
 
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