Dillon powder bar issues

paul73

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So, as i keep rediscovering America with my new XL750 press - i got to a conclusion that a powder bar design there is not adequate for what i need.
I ran a 11 batches of 10rd packs yesterday, and re-adjusting the powder amount it was just crazy how inconsistent from load to load it went. a task was not that complex - do a series of loads with 3 different seating depths using 24, 24.5, 25, 25.5 gn powder loads. Sounds easy enough but became a major struggle as the set for 24.5 would be producing in test measures anything from 24.1 to 24.8. It would mostly settle to 24.6 something after a dozen throws, but, still, it was a pain.

So i started googling today morning and came to several videos suggesting same approach - to ditch the fecking rod and use springs or rubber bands to return the powder bar back. i tried it - see below, and it seemed to sort of fix the issue as i see now the amount of powder to deviate from 24.0 to 24.1 only.
I need to run it for more to see if it will do as good as it seems or not, but, so far it looks like this, below.

Is it a common thing to do for 650/750? Is it indeed supposed to be more accurate or am i expecting too much? d1.jpg
 
So, as i keep rediscovering America with my new XL750 press - i got to a conclusion that a powder bar design there is not adequate for what i need.
I ran a 11 batches of 10rd packs yesterday, and re-adjusting the powder amount it was just crazy how inconsistent from load to load it went. a task was not that complex - do a series of loads with 3 different seating depths using 24, 24.5, 25, 25.5 gn powder loads. Sounds easy enough but became a major struggle as the set for 24.5 would be producing in test measures anything from 24.1 to 24.8. It would mostly settle to 24.6 something after a dozen throws, but, still, it was a pain.

So i started googling today morning and came to several videos suggesting same approach - to ditch the fecking rod and use springs or rubber bands to return the powder bar back. i tried it - see below, and it seemed to sort of fix the issue as i see now the amount of powder to deviate from 24.0 to 24.1 only.
I need to run it for more to see if it will do as good as it seems or not, but, so far it looks like this, below.

Is it a common thing to do for 650/750? Is it indeed supposed to be more accurate or am i expecting too much? View attachment 540437
What powder are you using?

Are you sure the powder bar was moving all the way in both directions? Or was it short stroking at all?

The old style powder measured all came with springs instead of fail safe linkage. I still have a couple of them and they work fine.

That being said I’ve only had inconsistency issues with Universal Clays. I found out that rapping my hand on the side of the measure a couple dozen times would settle the powder in and all of the charges after that were super consistent.

Prior to that every time I made and adjustment I would chase it around and it the powder charge would keep going up every throw till it was a 1/2- 3/4 grain more.
 
, , , re-adjusting the powder amount it was just crazy how inconsistent from load to load it went.
My experience is that it’s not the powder bar per se but rather the coarse-threaded screw used to adjust. But firstly, make sure you’re making changes with the powder bar fully extended so it’s empty while adjusting (pull the press handle down and hold it while making a change). Then throw 10 or even 20 loads and dump them before verifying any loads with a scale; seems silly but ultimately helps prevent eternal frustration.

However, even better — and best money spent ever on this, in my opinion — is a UniqueTek micrometer adjuster installed in the powder bar. It allows small adjustments that can be quickly and visually verified and repeated.
 
What powder are you using?

Are you sure the powder bar was moving all the way in both directions? Or was it short stroking at all?

The old style powder measured all came with springs instead of fail safe linkage. I still have a couple of them and they work fine.

That being said I’ve only had inconsistency issues with Universal Clays. I found out that rapping my hand on the side of the measure a couple dozen times would settle the powder in and all of the charges after that were super consistent.

Prior to that every time I made and adjustment I would chase it around and it the powder charge would keep going up every throw till it was a 1/2- 3/4 grain more.
powder is AA2520 and, yes, all was moving perfectly fine, spring on the rod compressing as it should be, all was operational, and, not quite consistent at all.
 
UniqueTek micrometer adjuster
thx for the tips, but, the 20 (twenty) manual try out throws of powder after each turn of the screw - it is quite insane. i tried it with rubber band now, did may be 5 throws and it seems to be stabilizing now after a second-third throw well.

about micrometer - is it really helping anything? i understand it uses same bolt thread just with the different head - what is actually improved there? i could see a point if they had much smaller thread step, to make more turn for more precise movement, but i just get a feel the moving part of the bar itself is floating too imprecise in there and it results in powder amount deviation. may be i am wrong.

as of grinding the bar - i was afraid to do that, as it seems it already has a bit of play, so i went other way using a soft pencil to put as much graphite on the bar as possible and it also seemed to improve movement quite a bit.
 
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It does not use the same bolt. I don’t recall the thread pitches, but the UniqueTek device is significantly finer threaded. Go look it up at uniquetek.com.
just looked, but, with baffles those 2 bars with micometers order came to a $300 - yikes. i will consider that, but cannot do it now, it is too much atm.
 
I found the measure does not settle in and remain consistent until you go through 15-20 rounds. There is something about the action of the machine that settles the powder in the hopper and then things get good. Dialing in little batches all slightly different will drive you crazy. Recommend not accepting the first 15 of a batch (throw the powder back in the bottle) and save the primed case. Also, shoot 50-75 of any new load to get a more realistic representation of the load and accuracy. Good luck.
 
Recommend not accepting the first 15 of a batch (throw the powder back in the bottle)
yikes. ok.
yep, it is indeed insane to do that many and measure them on scale, i guess i will do now at least 10 pulls before measuring a new setting. difficult to explain it rationally, what is the deal there i wonder, to take that many cycles to set the chamber?
 
yikes. ok.
yep, it is indeed insane to do that many and measure them on scale, i guess i will do now at least 10 pulls before measuring a new setting. difficult to explain it rationally, what is the deal there i wonder, to take that many cycles to set the chamber?
No, not "at least 10 pulls before measuring." Do 20 and then weigh one.

The variability after changing can be attributed to several things. Causes include: changing adjustment with the press handle up; powder level in the hopper inconsistently less then 1/2; and/or inconsistency in your scale. Put a baffle in the hopper to address the variable load in the hopper. And make sure you understand how to calibrate your scale and how to get consistent readings. And/or, of course, finicky powder that doesn't drop consistently.
 
This is why I use a Hornady powder measure on my 650.
this one?

how much more accurate is it? the rubber band thing got me i think within 2gn deviation now, mostly doing 1gn diff like 25.0gn and 25.1gn with only occasional 25.2gn.
what level of improvement will the hornady unit provide?

i feel a bit stupid now to be honest as this whole measure costs $90 as i see and the damn micrometer for dillon bar was at $80 apiece. hmm.
actually it is not it - as it also needs this $87 part, right?
 
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this one?

how much more accurate is it? the rubber band thing got me i think within 2gn deviation now, mostly doing 1gn diff like 25.0gn and 25.1gn with only occasional 25.2gn.
what level of improvement will the hornady unit provide?

i feel a bit stupid now to be honest as this whole measure costs $90 as i see and the damn micrometer for dillon bar was at $80 apiece. hmm.
EC, do you use a separate bell die with the Hornady measure? I have the same issue as Editor and Exasperated where once I get the Dillon measure to where I want, it never moves, but it takes longer than it should to get there.
 
as it also needs this $87 part, right?
Yes, as well as this powder die:


I bought extra powder dies and move the measure from toolhead to toolhead.
 
EC, do you use a separate bell die with the Hornady measure? I have the same issue as Editor and Exasperated where once I get the Dillon measure to where I want, it never moves, but it takes longer than it should to get there.
Usually.
 
I think, what you really need to adjust is your expectations. Or possibly your choice of powder. With a ball powder that meters well you should be able to get +/- 0.1 which is up to a .2 gr difference. Other powders are less accurate in the way they meter. Pulling the handle in a nice smooth stroke also helps. Also, is any powder spilling out of the case when the shell plate indexes?
I’m not familiar with your choice of powder but I assume from the volume it’s a rifle caliber. With experimentation and a chrono you may find that the variance you are seeing might not make any noticeable difference in performance.
 
I think, what you really need to adjust is your expectations. Or possibly your choice of powder. With a ball powder that meters well you should be able to get +/- 0.1 which is up to a .2 gr difference. Other powders are less accurate in the way they meter. Pulling the handle in a nice smooth stroke also helps. Also, is any powder spilling out of the case when the shell plate indexes?
I’m not familiar with your choice of powder but I assume from the volume it’s a rifle caliber. With experimentation and a chrono you may find that the variance you are seeing might not make any noticeable difference in performance.
This. With coarse “stick” rifle powders I don’t use the Hornady powder measure and use the Lee perfect powder measure. Aside from the coarse stick powders, the Hornady works great.
 
This. With coarse “stick” rifle powders I don’t use the Hornady powder measure and use the Lee perfect powder measure. Aside from the coarse stick powders, the Hornady works great.
to adjust any expectations you`ve got to get any first, or it`s not much to adjust. :) i am not looking for a custom powder drop accuracy from a progressive press, just getting general idea of different capabilities. just curious to know what this hornady measure contraption actually produces, in average. as, again, without specifics none of this conversation helps much.

@EddieCoyle, what deviation do you typically see this hornady measure to produce, on a powder like AA2520? what would be realistic to expect?


PS. that Lee 'perfect' one -
it seems to look a lot like a hornady unit - is it compatible with hornady case activated drop gizmo?
 
I don't use AA2520, but with 2230 it's about +/- 0.1 grain.

If I'm not loading in volume or working up a load or want really accurate charges, I throw them with an RCBS charging scale.
 
I bought the Arredondo powder bar for my 550 Dillon, No issues to speak of.
Drops as little as .7gr of N310 consistently.
Let the adjustment settle in a few pulls.
Just my 2 cents.
 
i received those $80 micrometers today, installed both, dunno. looks ok as a design but the plastic head was not fitting snugly into the bolt hole - i used loctite as it was prescribed, but, not sure how well it will grab and hold. it looked like it asked for some superglue in there... will see.
installed baffles inserts as well, they simply dropped in with no resistence instead of promised 'will stuck 1/3 way in' - and float free in there - will wait now overnight to see how it all will grab and behave.

so far it seems this reloading setup business sucks out money twice faster than actual guns.

so, did 10 loads now. setting up precise amount with micrometer is indeed much easier. baffles - not sure if helped a ton, but, i can see how measure now gets more consistent, but i sort of reverted to running press in a single cartridge mode measuring each one individually after powder drop - i can see that it runs more consistent now, as long as i do not do longer pauses - but after the pause the next measure is heavier by .3gn or so, so i drop it out and re-measure. frankly it is not very clear it is was worth dropping $198.73 at - but what`s done is done.
 
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kinda need to take back my initial negativity toward those upgrades i did to dillon powder bar. i prepped now 14 packs of rounds to test tomorrow - this time i primed shells first, then would manually weight each one, drop powder in it, weight again - to see how accurate the powder drop was.
so, i got to say, it was pretty damn accurate once settled.

i did it on TAC, CFE223 and AA2520. TAC was measuring the best - once set it really was going at 0.1gn accuracy. the constant deviation of 0.3gn from drop to drop is gone.
 
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