Do you HAVE to allow an armed IRS agent in your house?

Nico9283

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I’m sure we’ve all heard by now about how many new irs agents there are, and that they’re now armed. As a small business owner, I feel it’s inevitable that I’ll get audited sooner or later, and was curious if I have any rights to refuse an armed agent entry to my home without a warrant.
I’m not asking how to refuse an auditor into my home, just to tell them they’re not allowed to have a brandished weapon on them while they’re in my home.

I’ve asked some friends who aren’t very pro gun and they responded with “cops are armed, if you call 911 they will be coming into your house armed.” But my response to that is that I called them for help and thereby invited them to my home. A tax auditor is not a welcomed guest, they tell us we HAVE to be audited. I don’t call them and ask them to come audit me.

Do I have a legal right to deny entry into my home and if they refuse to disarm themselves, do I have the right to request my audit take place in a public location outside of my home? I’m not anti-2A in any way.. have a nice collection myself like most of you. I just don’t feel like playing this game with them and plan on taking it to them with whatever legal action I can if that day comes.
 
I’m sure we’ve all heard by now about how many new irs agents there are, and that they’re now armed. is game with them and plan on taking it to them with whatever legal action I can if that day comes.

Have you now???


2100. None of them give two ducks-quacks about you personally.
 
Doesn't the IRS make you come to them for an audit? Do they actually come to you?

Serious question, I've never had to deal with an audit.
 
Nico your tinfoil is wrapped a bit too tight, and please trust me when I say that, because I'm a fellow tinfoiler too.

1st off, they are not all armed, very few are.
2ndly, it would take about a thousand other steps before armed agents show up at your door.

Not saying things may change rapidly from here on out, but in my 30+ years of tax experience, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of agents showing up armed at a persons door demanding entry. I've only met with agents in a persons private residence a handful of times at most, it was all quite amicable.

To answer above: You make arrangements where to meet, usually its a neutral place like our office. In collections however, an agent will want to physically view the work premisis.
 
Question to piggy back off this one: If you just flat out asked any federal agent "Do I have to let you in", are they obligated to answer truthfully? Like even if they lie and say "yes", would any ensuing issues be tossed because they lied?
 
Question to piggy back off this one: If you just flat out asked any federal agent "Do I have to let you in", are they obligated to answer truthfully? Like even if they lie and say "yes", would any ensuing issues be tossed because they lied?

Any .gov agent needs a warrant to enter your property, unless certain circumstances like a crime in progress, investigation of a crime etc. Put it this way, there are more reasons for a .gov agent to NOT enter your property than there is to enter your property.

If given a choice, NEVER invite the man into your life. You could just think that "I have nothing to hide" and invite a LEO in, and he sees an errant round of 5.56 laying around, or a broken down rifle you are cleaning .. insta-felony!!!
 
Have you now???


2100. None of them give two ducks-quacks about you personally.
That’s not really true. There was funding put forward to expand IRS budget by 600%, which would fund 87k agents. Likely not armed ones though.


But 2,100 new IRS criminal investigators is a big increase.
 
Question to piggy back off this one: If you just flat out asked any federal agent "Do I have to let you in", are they obligated to answer truthfully? Like even if they lie and say "yes", would any ensuing issues be tossed because they lied?
You more than likely won’t get a straight answer. If they actually lie, nothing will come of it. It’s your job to know your rights and assert them.

Best course of action is not to answer the door. If they are knocking it’s because they don’t have a warrant to enter. If they do have a warrant, let them bust the door open if they want to take it that far.

As far as the IRS goes, you have no choice but to pay the taxes. It’s best not to be confrontational with the agent as they have some leeway in how they deal with you.

I was told a story from a guy I used to work for how he got in the hole for like 30 grand or so and had no way to pay it. The agent he dealt with wound up forgiving most of the back taxes and he only paid a small amount.

They just want the money, not to put you in jail
 
If they don't have a warrant tell them to beat feet. Do not talk to them. Do not engage in conversation. Everything you say will be used against you, they will try to get you to talk and lure you into conversation. Don't fall for it. No warrant, gtfo. Then close the door and call your lawyer. If they have a warrant you obviously have to let them in. STFU don't say anything and call your lawyer. Record everything you can.
 
Doesn't the IRS make you come to them for an audit? Do they actually come to you?

Serious question, I've never had to deal with an audit.
Many years ago my small proprietorship was surprise-audited. The guy showed up at my office.
As far as the IRS goes, you have no choice but to pay the taxes. It’s best not to be confrontational with the agent as they have some leeway in how they deal with you.

I was told a story from a guy I used to work for how he got in the hole for like 30 grand or so and had no way to pay it. The agent he dealt with wound up forgiving most of the back taxes and he only paid a small amount.

They just want the money, not to put you in jail
Yes, this has been my (limited) experience, as well as advice I've heard from others. On the other hand, you don't want to roll out the red carpet and give them a desk and comfy chair, either.
 
That’s not really true. There was funding put forward to expand IRS budget by 600%, which would fund 87k agents. Likely not armed ones though.


But 2,100 new IRS criminal investigators is a big increase.

To a grossly underfunded, under-employed government agency. Look, I hate the IRS as much as the next guy, but even PRE-pandemic, trying to get in touch with someone there was impossible. They NEED 87,000 workers in teh next 10 years. (87K over 10 years, not RIGHT THIS F'ING minute.)


Funny story about IRS and armed yadayada. So this client of mine is getting one of those PMITA audits - where the guy just reviews everything. And this guy is being a JERK about it. Wife does all the books and has a small business. He's pressing this and questioning that. All sorts of silliness. She probably grossed $50K a year. Not like she's the next Pablo Escobar (who died on this day in 1993, BTW).

Eventually, husband is walking through the dining room as IRS Dude is being condescending again. "You know what? You're lucky you're dealing with her or I'd put you through a wall for talking like that."

Seconds later, IRS agent claims other engagement and hightails it out of there.

About an hour later, this big panel van shows up outside. No lie. SWAT rolls out. Windbreakered IRS agents head for the front door while SWAT stays at the ready in teh driveway.

Knock on door. He opens it up. "Did you threaten Agent X?" "No, I told him if he talked to me that way I'd put him through a wall." "Sir, do you have your firearm on you currently?" "No. . . you know what, why don't you fellows, come on in. Let's talk about this."

It was pretty funny. He explained the situation to the FBI. Eventually, Agent X's supervisor comes in. She apologizes profusely. Agent X was let go. ROFL!!!!

9 times out of 10 when the IRS wants armed agents at your house, it won't be armed IRS agents. It'll be a panel van of SWAT/HRT/Whatever.
 
Do you even operate bro? You know you don't even NEED to talk to them, right?

Meet them at the door with a HARD BLOCK, blade at a 45 degree when talking to them, ensure you're not being detained and exit the property with a tactical roll.

Please post video.
 
I’m sure we’ve all heard by now about how many new irs agents there are,
Yes, we've all heard the 87,000 number. What isn't as widely spoken about is how few of them are auditors, or that they expect 52,000 employees to retire or leave during the same period.

and that they’re now armed.
About 2,000-2,200 of the new hires will investigate tax crimes and carry firearms.

As a small business owner, I feel it’s inevitable that I’ll get audited sooner or later, and was curious if I have any rights to refuse an armed agent entry to my home without a warrant.
I’m not asking how to refuse an auditor into my home, just to tell them they’re not allowed to have a brandished weapon on them while they’re in my home.
IRS audits can be done in mail or in person. If in person, they are sometimes done in your home, but more typically in an IRS office, a place of business, or the office of your accountant or attorney. When you receive a notice of an in-person audit, you can contact the agent and negotiate the time and place. As long as the agent feels you aren't playing games and that you are treating them with respect, they're typically willing to work something out.

"Brandishing" a weapon without cause is illegal pretty much anywhere. If they don't have a warrant, you have the same rights as anyone else who shows up at your door. You can refuse entry or set conditions on their entry, including restrictions on firearms. Doing so at the time of attempted entry rather than when you negotiate the appointment is likely to piss off the agent, though, and that's a bad idea. Auditors have the power to make your life a living hell, but they also have the power to waive a magic wand and make many of your tax issues go away.

If they show up at your door without notice or an appointment, they are going to have a warrant, and no one sane executes a home search warrant unarmed. A "rogue IRS agent" is far more likely to threaten you with legal action than with a firearm.

So don't put aside your fears of an audit. Instead, be prepared by keeping solid records and backups. Should you receive notice of an audit, contact an attorney and, if you have one, an accountant.
 
And just why does someone who deals with numbers need to carry a gun? There has never been a need to arm IRS agents in the past, so why now?

Plenty of IRS agents have been armed for many, many years now. Growing up (in the 80s) one of friends had a father who was an IRS agent. He had a company car with blues, a handgun, badge, etc. I don’t know what exactly he did for them but I’m guessing he wasn’t a staff auditor.
 
Have you now???


2100. None of them give two ducks-quacks about you personally.
ATF is an offshoot of the IRS. I don't understand why the ATF is armed and I sure as heck don't think the IRS needs to be armed.
 
You don't HAVE to do anything.
EXCEPT.... Die and pay taxes, as the saying goes.
And just why does someone who deals with numbers need to carry a gun? There has never been a need to arm IRS agents in the past, so why now?
The IRS has had armed agents for quiet some time.
 
Do you even operate bro? You know you don't even NEED to talk to them, right?

Meet them at the door with a HARD BLOCK, blade at a 45 degree when talking to them, ensure you're not being detained and exit the property with a tactical roll.

Please post video.
No need for this level of aggression. Just meet them at the door with a firm, but polite "SIR, DO YOU HAVE A MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT"
 
Doesn't the IRS make you come to them for an audit? Do they actually come to you?

Serious question, I've never had to deal with an audit.

I have a friend that works for the IRS, he’s the guy that would show up if you don’t answer their letters/calls (same guy who takes your shit) if you default on them.

He ain’t packing heat and he’s not looking for a fight (he would loose every single one).
 
Do you even operate bro? You know you don't even NEED to talk to them, right?

Meet them at the door with a HARD BLOCK, blade at a 45 degree when talking to them, ensure you're not being detained and exit the property with a tactical roll.

Please post video.
You forgot a tactical roll.
 
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