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Doodads on your carry pistol

Whatcha typically got on your carry pistol to aim with?

  • Basic irons only

    Votes: 73 31.2%
  • Night sight irons only

    Votes: 77 32.9%
  • Electronic optic

    Votes: 33 14.1%
  • Irons of any type with light and/or laser

    Votes: 20 8.5%
  • Optic with light and/or laser

    Votes: 31 13.2%

  • Total voters
    234
I don't know if Col. Cooper coined "hammered pair" versus "controlled pair", but I think he may have popularized them way back before most folks on NES were born...
I searched his Commentaries for those terms and that yielded zero results.

He has other writings of course, just not easily searchable by me.
 
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A Joy to carry. The smoothest DA trigger pull this side of a custom Python.

I bought a second mag for mine. But since my gun was all hand made, the mag didn't work. I called Seecamp and told Larry Jr. that I only lived 25 minutes away. He invited me to drop by and assured me they could get it set up. They fixed it while I waited.

Olde Schoole. Before they had CNC machines.
I know this guy Art who did videos and tech sessions at Seecamp. He said Larry was one of the good people. Put everyone else before himself. Seecamp today should adopt his customer service practices, although I also bought a new magazine that didn’t work. They offered to fix it if I sent it in. I never did because I had 2 mags already. I guess they had issues with the magazine manufacturer.
 
There's going to be a lot of fudd lore in this thread...

Modern optics are fantastic and superior to iron sights. WMLs are also good to have. Personally though, I like to roll with a minimalist setup so I have neither on my carry guns.
If I had an optic on my carry gun it would basically be borderline unusable because right now the tv screen would be filled with lint/dust/detreitus. 🤣 I'd have to get in the habit of taking all the dust off the gun like 1 to 2 times a week.
 
Not gonna lie, this thread/poll is interesting to me. I suspect im on the extreme low end of the age spectrum on this forum, which means ive got the youngest eyes, i cant believe there arent more people carrying guns with optics on them.

Its 2024 guys, the future is now. The verdict has been in for like a decade now... red dots on pistols is superior in every single way.
I'm overwhelmed by the choices and options in the optics market to make an informed decision.
 
I'm overwhelmed by the choices and options in the optics market to make an informed decision.

Before you dive into the red dot world. Ask yourself...do you front sight focus or target focus irons? If you front sight focus irons, then a red dot will have a larger impact compared to target focus. Because more than dot or irons, its the target focus that makes the bigger difference.
 
Not gonna lie, this thread/poll is interesting to me. I suspect im on the extreme low end of the age spectrum on this forum, which means ive got the youngest eyes, i cant believe there arent more people carrying guns with optics on them.

Its 2024 guys, the future is now. The verdict has been in for like a decade now... red dots on pistols is superior in every single way.
Your statement suggests one of two things.

You are young and you aren't yet a very good shooter. So learning with a dot sight is a no brainer.

If you are a good shot with irons, you have not yet tested yourself with a dot under less than ideal conditions. Strong hand, weak hand, compromised positions, behind concealment, under stress of a shot timer, while moving, etc .

If you have reached a point where shooting fast (defensive shooting is all about balancing speed with accuracy) with irons is instinctive, it will take many any thousands of rounds to equal that proficiency at LIKELY DEFENSIVE distances with a dot.

At 25 yards, I'm better with a dot. About the same speed as irons, and more accurate.
At 25 ft, I'm much faster with irons and accurate enough.
At 10 ft, I'm pretty much just pointing the gun. and pressing the trigger as fast as I can (which gets me about an 8" group) so the style of sight is absolutely irrelevant. My speed/accuracy compromise is dependent on my ability to control recoil and work the trigger.
 
Before you dive into the red dot world. Ask yourself...do you front sight focus or target focus irons? If you front sight focus irons, then a red dot will have a larger impact compared to target focus. Because more than dot or irons, its the target focus that makes the bigger difference.
I change up based on distance. At likely defensive distance I'm target focused. At 25 yards, I'm hard focus on the front sight. That's how most people who have achieved instinctive proficiency work it. Without even noticing it.

Based on past history, my memory is that you are a pretty good competitive shooter. I'm mid pack at best. What do you do?
 
I change up based on distance. At likely defensive distance I'm target focused. At 25 yards, I'm hard focus on the front sight. That's how most people who have achieved instinctive proficiency work it. Without even noticing it.

Based on past history, my memory is that you are a pretty good competitive shooter. I'm mid pack at best. What do you do?
I target focus at every distance. Even when I am doing accuracy work like 3" plate at 50y. If I focus on the front sight, I lose the target in the background
 
Your statement suggests one of two things.

You are young and you aren't yet a very good shooter. So learning with a dot sight is a no brainer.

If you are a good shot with irons, you have not yet tested yourself with a dot under less than ideal conditions. Strong hand, weak hand, compromised positions, behind concealment, under stress of a shot timer, while moving, etc .

If you have reached a point where shooting fast (defensive shooting is all about balancing speed with accuracy) with irons is instinctive, it will take many any thousands of rounds to equal that proficiency at LIKELY DEFENSIVE distances with a dot.

At 25 yards, I'm better with a dot. About the same speed as irons, and more accurate.
At 25 ft, I'm much faster with irons and accurate enough.
At 10 ft, I'm pretty much just pointing the gun. and pressing the trigger as fast as I can (which gets me about an 8" group) so the style of sight is absolutely irrelevant. My speed/accuracy compromise is dependent on my ability to control recoil and work the trigger.

I was/am very proficient with irons and was even an iron sights holdout for quite some time after dots started taking over.

I fully switched over about 3-4 years ago when the type 2 RMRs first came out and i haven't looked back.

I choose to reject "likely defensive distances" as a metric. Im already faster and more accurate than the top 90th percentile of gun owners with or without so i start looking at other things like fighting somebody with a rifle with my handgun and making precision shots in crowded places etc. In my line of work its not unfathomable that i may need to fight someone who may have a rifle with my handgun as my carbine is not immediately on my person and extreme accuracy is something i need.

Even outside of work needs however i still prefer a dot gun because im comfortable trading the quarter of a second it may take to acquire a dot for the precision it offers at distance, threat focus, and the dominance in low light.

i do agree with you that inside of 25 yards its kind of irrelevant but i think with training you can easily get first shot times to well below 1.5 seconds at distances beyond 25 yds with a dot and if you can shoot you will have accuracy too. Im to the point where i can make a 50 yard upper thorastic shot in 1.5-2 seconds on command, making shots that quick with irons was less easy.

TLDR, f*** "likely" defensive range, make your glock 19 a pistol cal carbine.

These pistol shots are at 50yds, idk the exact times, not great, but probably sub 2 seconds with quick followups. All that said, im not training to defend my wallet from a mugger. Ymmv.


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/cOm-IWH5d7k?si=yxHZbbODladx2HT9



View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Nc85YqybfPs?si=4AQm51OvuTSQiuqY
 
If you can't find the dot then you're not finding your irons either, you just don't realize it because it's harder to keep track of "equal height, equal light" than just seeing a dot over your target. In other words, if you can look at a spot, draw your gun, and have the iron sights line right up on that spot, then you can do the same thing with a dot; if you can't do it with a dot, then you're not doing it with irons either.
 
I was/am very proficient with irons and was even an iron sights holdout for quite some time after dots started taking over.

I fully switched over about 3-4 years ago when the type 2 RMRs first came out and i haven't looked back.

I choose to reject "likely defensive distances" as a metric. Im already faster and more accurate than the top 90th percentile of gun owners with or without so i start looking at other things like fighting somebody with a rifle with my handgun and making precision shots in crowded places etc. In my line of work its not unfathomable that i may need to fight someone who may have a rifle with my handgun as my carbine is not immediately on my person and extreme accuracy is something i need.

Even outside of work needs however i still prefer a dot gun because im comfortable trading the quarter of a second it may take to acquire a dot for the precision it offers at distance, threat focus, and the dominance in low light.

i do agree with you that inside of 25 yards its kind of irrelevant but i think with training you can easily get first shot times to well below 1.5 seconds at distances beyond 25 yds with a dot and if you can shoot you will have accuracy too. Im to the point where i can make a 50 yard upper thorastic shot in 1.5-2 seconds on command, making shots that quick with irons was less easy.

TLDR, f*** "likely" defensive range, make your glock 19 a pistol cal carbine.

These pistol shots are at 50yds, idk the exact times, not great, but probably sub 2 seconds with quick followups. All that said, im not training to defend my wallet from a mugger. Ymmv.


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/cOm-IWH5d7k?si=yxHZbbODladx2HT9



View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Nc85YqybfPs?si=4AQm51OvuTSQiuqY

I apologize. I didn't realize it was you who wrote that.
I honestly should have been more respectful. We both go way back. Ha.

The funny thing is that we both agree that outside of 25 yards, a dot helps and inside 25 yards it's kind of irrelevant.

We both just draw different conclusions from those sets of facts. I'd rather have the speed up close. Though I'm pretty confident that with more training I can get that.

I did a class at Sig with Jeff Gonzales of Trident concepts. I expected a run and gun type course but it ended up being LOTS of long defensive shots from 20 to 30 yards. The rule was essentially "go as fast as you can, but you can't miss".

I actually think you are selling yourself short. Top 90th isn't much. I'd easily put myself top 95th percentile simply because I shoot roughly 5000 rounds of rimfire each year and probably about the same in 9mm and 223 and regularly push myself with movement, shot timers, and drills that I will never shoot perfectly. Hardly a lot compared to those who train constantly. But far better than most. I'm also a mid pack competitor in almost any gun game I compete in. Whether it's practical shooting, bulls eye, slow fire rifle or sporting clays, I'm never great. Never terrible. My point is not to blow my horn. I suspect you shoot more than I do and better than I do. It's just that the bottom 90% is so SO SO terrible.

I picked up a Bergara B14R and am teaching myself to shoot some PRS Rimfire this spring. I suspect I'll be bottom of the pack there for a while. But practice makes perfect. I can consistently ring a 3" steel plate at 200 yards. Lots more work to do including testing ammunition to find what my gun likes. Hardly competition ready, but better than probably 97% of gun owners overall.
 
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