Double checking on FOPA & Requirement to Inform

Rockrivr1

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I'm going to be driving down to Georgia in a three weeks and I'm bringing my CCW with me. My gun will be locked up in one hard shell handgun container and the ammo will be locked up in a separate small container. One question I have is can the empty magazines be in the same container as the gun or should I store them in with the ammo? I'm reading the FOPA rules and it's not clear on that point. Also unclear, but I'm fairly certain that I can store both gun and ammo in the storage area of my SUV without issue. That sound correct?

As to requirement to inform, trying to confirm what state is and isn't is a huge PITA. My route will be MA, CT, NY, PA, VA (Stopping for the night), TN and then GA. Potential trip to South Carolina as well. My permits allow me to CCW in all but NY and PA and no way am I stopping in NY. From what I can tell all of the states I'm driving through do not have a clause for me to inform them of my gun in the car. That sound right to everyone or am I missing something?

Thanks for the help. Want to make sure I get this right.
 
You can have loaded mags right next to your guns, according to FOPA.

As far as duty to inform, it's not a FOPA requirement so check handgunlaw.us for specific state laws. There are definitely some states along your route that have said duty, I remember trying to wrap my head around it years back for a road trip.
 
I'm going to be driving down to Georgia in a three weeks and I'm bringing my CCW with me. My gun will be locked up in one hard shell handgun container and the ammo will be locked up in a separate small container. One question I have is can the empty magazines be in the same container as the gun or should I store them in with the ammo? I'm reading the FOPA rules and it's not clear on that point. Also unclear, but I'm fairly certain that I can store both gun and ammo in the storage area of my SUV without issue. That sound correct?

As to requirement to inform, trying to confirm what state is and isn't is a huge PITA. My route will be MA, CT, NY, PA, VA (Stopping for the night), TN and then GA. Potential trip to South Carolina as well. My permits allow me to CCW in all but NY and PA and no way am I stopping in NY. From what I can tell all of the states I'm driving through do not have a clause for me to inform them of my gun in the car. That sound right to everyone or am I missing something?

Thanks for the help. Want to make sure I get this right.

FOPA says firearms and ammo separate, doesn't say anything about magazines. I generally travel with unloaded firearm and loaded mags, (in separate containers). Both of those containers can be stored in the storage area of your SUV. They have to be out of reach of driver/passenger.

NC and SC have duty to inform.

I run between GA and CT a couple times a year; I have GA resident permit, CT, UT, NH & FL non-resident permits.

These are my notes for travel based on my path(s), my permits, and my research; YMMV:

GEORGIA
Georgia Permit; Open Carry
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: Churches unless specifically permitted, WMAs

SOUTH CAROLINA
Georgia Permit; No Open Carry
** Duty To Inform **
OFF LIMITS: Hospitals, Medical offices, airport terminals,
** any place clearly marked **
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
Pepper Spray: YES, no more than 50cc

NORTH CAROLINA
Georgia Permit
** Duty To Inform **
OFF LIMITS: protests, picket lines, state fair
** any posted place **
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
Pepper Spray: YES, no more than 150cc

VIRGINIA
Georgia Permit; Open Carry
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: airport terminals
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
20 round mag limit otherwise it's an "assault weapon"; 7 round shotgun mag limit

WASHINGTON, DC
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

MARYLAND
***FOPA ONLY***
No Duty To Inform
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

DELAWARE
Florida Permit; No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: State/National Forest, State Parks
Okay to carry in bars
Pepper Spray: YES, (no statute?)

PENNSYLVANIA
Georgia Permit
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: Philadelphia city parks
Pepper Spray: YES, (no statute?)

NEW JERSEY
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF HOLLOWPOINTS
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 15

NEW YORK
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

CONNECTICUT
Connecticut Permit; No Duty To Inform
Magazine in firearm may be "high capacity" but must have no more than 10 rounds in it.
Magazines on person must have capacity of 10 or less.
Assault Weapons and High Capacity Magazines must have been previously registered.
Pre-Ban Assault Weapons can still be sold/transferred.


FLORIDA
Georgia (or Florida); No Duty To Inform
 
I'm going to be driving down to Georgia in a three weeks and I'm bringing my CCW with me. My gun will be locked up in one hard shell handgun container and the ammo will be locked up in a separate small container. One question I have is can the empty magazines be in the same container as the gun or should I store them in with the ammo? I'm reading the FOPA rules and it's not clear on that point. Also unclear, but I'm fairly certain that I can store both gun and ammo in the storage area of my SUV without issue. That sound correct?

As to requirement to inform, trying to confirm what state is and isn't is a huge PITA. My route will be MA, CT, NY, PA, VA (Stopping for the night), TN and then GA. Potential trip to South Carolina as well. My permits allow me to CCW in all but NY and PA and no way am I stopping in NY. From what I can tell all of the states I'm driving through do not have a clause for me to inform them of my gun in the car. That sound right to everyone or am I missing something?

Thanks for the help. Want to make sure I get this right.
Sounds like 84 to 81 to 40 to 75 which means you are also passing through a sliver of MD. Last time I made that trip PA was lawful on a NH non-resident but of course with a Dem AG in PA that is no longer true. It flip flops all the time.

I have done the trip TX-AR-TN-VA-MD-PA-NY-CT-MA with a lot of guns and ammo. Everything locked up. No ammo in the same case as a gun. No duty to inform anyone ever of what you have in your car. Duty to inform only applies in some states relative to you carrying, not transporting. They need a search warrant to find out what you have in your car in those locked containers.

Since you are from MA you will not have > 10rd mags so that is good. Since you are not passing through NJ you can have hollow points.
 
FOPA says firearms and ammo separate, doesn't say anything about magazines. I generally travel with unloaded firearm and loaded mags, (in separate containers). Both of those containers can be stored in the storage area of your SUV. They have to be out of reach of driver/passenger.

NC and SC have duty to inform.

I run between GA and CT a couple times a year; I have GA resident permit, CT, UT, NH & FL non-resident permits.

These are my notes for travel based on my path(s), my permits, and my research; YMMV:

GEORGIA
Georgia Permit; Open Carry
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: Churches unless specifically permitted, WMAs

SOUTH CAROLINA
Georgia Permit; No Open Carry
** Duty To Inform **
OFF LIMITS: Hospitals, Medical offices, airport terminals,
** any place clearly marked **
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
Pepper Spray: YES, no more than 50cc

NORTH CAROLINA
Georgia Permit
** Duty To Inform **
OFF LIMITS: protests, picket lines, state fair
** any posted place **
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
Pepper Spray: YES, no more than 150cc

VIRGINIA
Georgia Permit; Open Carry
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: airport terminals
BAR: Yes; DRINK: No
20 round mag limit otherwise it's an "assault weapon"; 7 round shotgun mag limit

WASHINGTON, DC
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

MARYLAND
***FOPA ONLY***
No Duty To Inform
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

DELAWARE
Florida Permit; No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: State/National Forest, State Parks
Okay to carry in bars
Pepper Spray: YES, (no statute?)

PENNSYLVANIA
Georgia Permit
No Duty To Inform
OFF LIMITS: Philadelphia city parks
Pepper Spray: YES, (no statute?)

NEW JERSEY
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF HOLLOWPOINTS
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 15

NEW YORK
***FOPA ONLY***
***NO POSSESSION OF MAGAZINES WITH CAPACITY OF MORE THAN 10

CONNECTICUT
Connecticut Permit; No Duty To Inform
Magazine in firearm may be "high capacity" but must have no more than 10 rounds in it.
Magazines on person must have capacity of 10 or less.
Assault Weapons and High Capacity Magazines must have been previously registered.
Pre-Ban Assault Weapons can still be sold/transferred.


FLORIDA
Georgia (or Florida); No Duty To Inform

I believe NJ lowered their mag limit to 10 within the past year and there are federal lawsuits pending regarding that law similar to Duncan vs becerra in the 9th circuit
 
I believe NJ lowered their mag limit to 10 within the past year and there are federal lawsuits pending regarding that law similar to Duncan vs becerra in the 9th circuit

You are correct about 10 round limit, thank you - I'll update my notes.

According to our criminal code, specifically section N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1, a large capacity magazine is defined as a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm. Thus, is it unlawful for any individual to possess a magazine that holds more than 10 bullets. Any person who knowingly has in his or her possession a large capacity magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3j.
Source: Possession of High Capacity Magazine Charges NJ | High Cacacity Ammo NJ Need Lawyer
 
OP obviously wants to CCW on his permits
while transiting states where he's licensed.

But does any jurisdiction anywhere claim a duty to inform
about guns'n'ammo transported under FOPA?

(Locked up, inaccessible).

After all, guns transported invisibly in a car trunk, etc.
aren't even subject to search or seizure without permission,
or reasonable articulable suspicion of contraband.
 
OP obviously wants to CCW on his permits
while transiting states where he's licensed.

But does any jurisdiction anywhere claim a duty to inform
about guns'n'ammo transported under FOPA?

(Locked up, inaccessible).

After all, guns transported invisibly in a car trunk, etc.
aren't even subject to search or seizure without permission,
or reasonable articulable suspicion of contraband.

No.

Duty to inform applies when you're carrying firearm.
Transporting under FOPA, (guns and ammo separate, locked up), is not carrying.

I will note however that lying to a cop about what you may or may not have in your vehicle is a different question.
 
Not sure about duty to inform under FOPA.

I’d surely look it up in the states you are actually ccw in!
 
I traveled to Virginia with a shotgun in July and have many times in the past. I shoot sporting clays with my bil when I'm visiting my wife's family.

Shotgun unloaded in hard case and combo locked (keys get lost).

Ammo in a separate bag.

Shotgun was stored in the back seat of my tacoma with a blanket over it and suit cases on top so there was no way to tell from the outside looking in.

My plan in case pulled over is if I'm asked ill tell.....if not oh well. May not be "legal" in all states I passed through but in my opinion you have to go with a risk assessment in this case.

I'm on the side if the road pulled over for a moving violation

1. Cop cannot see the gun case at all
2. If I tell him I have a gun.......what are the chances things go south? 50/50 I'd say
3. If I don't tell him I have a gun What are the chances I drive away with nothing but a speeding ticket......is say 99.9999%

I ain't saying shit unless asked.

As far as handgun mags etc.....I see these questions all the time about loaded vs unloaded etc....fopa does not give all the details but I'll offer this......if your traveling under fopa......the spirit of that law in my opinion is to TRAVEL with guns from point a to point b through states where gun laws require permits. TRAVEL is the key word. Your not permitted to carry.....so make every effort to store them as your transporting. If I was taking handguns or mag fed rifles the mags would be empty and stored separately from the gun. That sends the message to the po po your transporting under the spirit of fopa. Keeping loaded mags in the same box as the gun seems like your trying to skirt the law a bit.
 
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I traveled to Virginia with a shotgun in July and have many times in the past. I shoot sporting clays with my bil when I'm visiting my wife's family.

Shotgun unloaded in hard case and combo locked (keys get lost).

Ammo in a separate bag.

Shotgun was stored in the back seat of my tacoma with a blanket over it and suit cases on top so there was no way to tell from the outside looking in.

My plan in case pulled over is if I'm asked ill tell.....if not oh well. May not be "legal" in all states I passed through but in my opinion you have to go with a risk assessment in this case.

I'm on the side if the road pulled over for a moving violation

1. Cop cannot see the gun case at all
2. If I tell him I have a gun.......what are the chances things go south? 50/50 I'd say
3. If I don't tell him I have a gun What are the chances I drive away with nothing but a speeding ticket......is say 99.9999%

I ain't saying shit unless asked.

As far as handgun mags etc.....I see these questions all the time about loaded vs unloaded etc....fopa does not give all the details but I'll offer this......if your traveling under fopa......the spirit of that law in my opinion is to TRAVEL with guns from point a to point b through states where gun laws require permits. TRAVEL is the key word. Your not permitted to carry.....so make every effort to store them as your transporting. If I was taking handguns or mag fed rifles the mags would be empty and stored separately from the gun. That sends the message to the po po your transporting under the spirit of fopa. Keeping loaded mags in the same box as the gun seems like your trying to skirt the law a bit.

If I was taking handguns or mag fed rifles the mags would be empty and stored separately from the gun. That sends the message to the po po your transporting under the spirit of fopa. Keeping loaded mags in the same box as the gun seems like your trying to skirt the law a bit.

My understanding of FOPA is that guns and ammo must be separately cased. Ammo can be in mags, as long as it's not in the same case as the firearm.

That being said, here's the statute, (which doesn't say separate cases):
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Link: 18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
 
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If I was taking handguns or mag fed rifles the mags would be empty and stored separately from the gun. That sends the message to the po po your transporting under the spirit of fopa. Keeping loaded mags in the same box as the gun seems like your trying to skirt the law a bit.

My understanding of FOPA is that guns and ammo must be separately cased. Ammo can be in mags, as long as it's not in the same case as the firearm.

That being said, here's the statute, (which doesn't say separate cases):
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Link: 18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
It does not specifically say the need to be separate. That was the point of my post. I would keep ammo and guns in separate places and even unload mags just to be sure I'm sending the message I'm traveling under fopa and not keeping my guns even remotely in a ready condition.

It's very simple. Unloaded and locked.....separate the ammo......keep it out of sight.....shut the f*** up.
 
Just to emphasize, FOPA does NOT protect you from magazine and ammo laws. It only talks about firearms. For example, it won't protect you from NJ's ban on hollowpoints or high cap mags.
 
Crackpot has the route. Sigh of relief when you reach Matamoras, PA, then hold your breath through that sliver of MD where there is no reason to stop in Hagerstown.
 
I traveled to Virginia with a shotgun in July and have many times in the past. I shoot sporting clays with my bil when I'm visiting my wife's family.

Shotgun unloaded in hard case and combo locked (keys get lost).

Ammo in a separate bag.

Shotgun was stored in the back seat of my tacoma with a blanket over it and suit cases on top so there was no way to tell from the outside looking in.

My plan in case pulled over is if I'm asked ill tell.....if not oh well. May not be "legal" in all states I passed through but in my opinion you have to go with a risk assessment in this case.

I'm on the side if the road pulled over for a moving violation

1. Cop cannot see the gun case at all
2. If I tell him I have a gun.......what are the chances things go south? 50/50 I'd say
3. If I don't tell him I have a gun What are the chances I drive away with nothing but a speeding ticket......is say 99.9999%

I ain't saying shit unless asked.

As far as handgun mags etc.....I see these questions all the time about loaded vs unloaded etc....fopa does not give all the details but I'll offer this......if your traveling under fopa......the spirit of that law in my opinion is to TRAVEL with guns from point a to point b through states where gun laws require permits. TRAVEL is the key word. Your not permitted to carry.....so make every effort to store them as your transporting. If I was taking handguns or mag fed rifles the mags would be empty and stored separately from the gun. That sends the message to the po po your transporting under the spirit of fopa. Keeping loaded mags in the same box as the gun seems like your trying to skirt the law a bit.

^^^^This^^^^

Have been to several gun law seminars over the years. Every single lawyer at these seminars have said to keep the mags unloaded when transporting under FOPA.

So, my method is to unload gun and mags, place gun and mags into gun safe (locked with combo lock) and place all ammo in it's own locked container (small fire safe). All this either gets put under the rear seat or on the rear floor, covered with tons of stuff. Of course, in states that can be carried in, it's locked and loaded time.
 
Q: When transporting ammunition under FOPA,
can I keep ammunition in zip-loc baggies?
Or does it have to be in its original packaging?

What about if I reload?

It does not specifically say the need to be separate. That was the point of my post. I would keep ammo and guns in separate places and even unload mags just to be sure I'm sending the message I'm traveling under fopa and not keeping my guns even remotely in a ready condition.

It's very simple. Unloaded and locked.....separate the ammo......keep it out of sight.....shut the f*** up.
(If a cop finds a longarm case or handgun lockbox in an out-of-state car,
I have faith they'll claim probable cause to search the container
to verify that they're unloaded) but...
Have been to several gun law seminars over the years. Every single lawyer at these seminars have said to keep the mags unloaded when transporting under FOPA.
...next time, ask the lawyer:
if loaded magazines are locked in a container
not suitable for transporting a weapon,
where does the probable cause come from to search the container?

P. S. Searching a container requires probable cause -
not merely reasonable articulable suspicion.

Washington and Lee Law Review:
Reasonable Suspicion And Probable Cause In Automobile Searches:
A Validity Checklist For Police, Prosecutors, And Defense Attorneys
 
Q: When transporting ammunition under FOPA,
can I keep ammunition in zip-loc baggies?
Or does it have to be in its original packaging?

What about if I reload?


(If a cop finds a longarm case or handgun lockbox in an out-of-state car,
I have faith they'll claim probable cause to search the container
to verify that they're unloaded) but...

...next time, ask the lawyer:
if loaded magazines are locked in a container
not suitable for transporting a weapon,
where does the probable cause come from to search the container?

P. S. Searching a container requires probable cause -
not merely reasonable articulable suspicion.

Washington and Lee Law Review:
Reasonable Suspicion And Probable Cause In Automobile Searches:
A Validity Checklist For Police, Prosecutors, And Defense Attorneys
How is he going to find my gun case if it's completely out of sight? On a routine traffic stop he's got no probable cause to search anything unless I open my mouth and tell him I habe guns.....or he can see them.
 
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