Dry Fire comes to the rescue

JimConway

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In a class for security guards this past weekend, we had a problem.
The security company did not send the amount of ammo needed to shoot the course as planned.
In fact, they only had about 60% of the needed ammo.
Mike and I decided that the only way to make the class work was to add a lot of dry firing to the course curriculum. There were three students in the class. Two were typical shooters, in that they owned handguns and shot occasionally. These two students had no real grasp of shooting basics.( Stance, grip, trigger manipulation, etc.) The third student had severe arthritis in his hands and his finger was bent at an odd angle. We knew that we had a problem that had to be solved. Mike spent all of his time with the third student. The student could not hold the gun or manipulate the trigger in what most folks would describe as a normal fashion. Mike solved that problem be coming up with a very unorthodox grip and trigger manipulation method.

To make a long story much shorter, The students dry fired a lot and learned to call their shots. They not only learned to call their shots but did it very well. They all had to shoot and pass the MPTC handgun test which requires a minimum passing score of 80 out of 100 possible points. The result was that their scores were a 98, a 96 and a 92. That translates to a class average of 95.3 We were impressed and will be including a lot more dry firing in all of our classes from now on.

Comments??
 
I like it. Teaching them form and technique BEFORE wasting ammo. Even before reading this, I had intended to work on some dryfire with my daughter. (10 years old) She's not hitting the target and we need to find out why.
 
Pete
She must understand that she must get and hold an acceptable sight picture and then press the trigger (while holding the sight picture) In Vicky Farnam's book on teaching women she stresses that many women get the sight picture and then press the trigger, without holding the sight picture. When she gets the sight picture, be sure to tell her that there will be some movement or wobble and that she should just ignore it because no one can hold it perfectly still.

The best way that I have found to check her sight picture is to have her aim the gun with her finger off the trigger, while you gently press the trigger. If the bullets are going where she aimed, you now know that she is sighting correctly and can focus on the pressing of the trigger correctly.

I hope that this helps
 
At Appleseed shoots I've encountered a few shooters who have told me they don't get a chance to get to the range as often as they'd like so they will do a fair amount af dry fire pratice.

It's reflected in their scores.

Granted Appleseed is a different kind of training but the results of adding dry fire are the same.

It works.
 
What do you think of laser grips on a pistol, combined with dry firing? It seems to me that if you can avoid 'cheating' by looking only at the laser spot, and actually try to align the sights, that it would be a very effective way to learn how to aim the pistol.
 
Dry fire offers huge advantages when mixed with live fire. Probably all the top USPSA/IDPA shooters practice dry fire. Only draw back it it's not as fun.... but it is cheaper!
 
Most of the top shooters do it every day for an hour or two. here on the job we put aside a few hours a week to get down and do some in the weps cage.
 
Sometimes we learn new and interesting teaching techniques through adversity or change. This feels like one of those moments.
 
In this case, it should be noted that Neshooters has been stressing and using dry fire in classes for a while.. In the class that I mentioned we just used a lot more with dramatic results.
 
Thank you for the link to the wall drill. I've been trying to put in a couple of days a week and I've found I am getting better. Between this and the ball and dummy drill my flinch is slowly going away. I'm not sure if this should be a thread on it's own or not but one of the other problems I've found in my technique is poor follow through. I have a Browning Hi Power, how do I practice my follow through? When I dry fire, the trigger releases the hammer but does not go all the way to the rear unless the slide cycles so what would you suggest?
 
Afere the hammer falls, hold the trigger back and rack the slide with your support hand, eniough to recock the hammer. Then put your support hand back on the gun, reacquire the front sight and allow the trigger to go forward enough to reset the sear. You will know when it is reset when you hear and feel a click. Now all you have to do is dry fire another perfect shot.
Repeat as necessary
 
Thanks [grin]. That's kind of what I thought of doing but didn't know if that would be effective/proper or not. Not that I thought it would hurt the gun, obviously doing it by hand is a lot less stress than a round going off, but more from a repeatable learning process standpoint.
 
The only problem is that the hi power trigger moves differently in dry fire than live. The trigger actually moves farther to the rear when the hammer is re-cocked. Dry fire is still very helpful, but it does feel different.
 
Thank you for the link to the wall drill. I've been trying to put in a couple of days a week and I've found I am getting better. Between this and the ball and dummy drill my flinch is slowly going away. I'm not sure if this should be a thread on it's own or not but one of the other problems I've found in my technique is poor follow through. I have a Browning Hi Power, how do I practice my follow through? When I dry fire, the trigger releases the hammer but does not go all the way to the rear unless the slide cycles so what would you suggest?

The wall drill is all about trigger control. Doesn't matter what pistol you use. You do need to be able to see the sights when the hammer falls.

Hope that helps,
 
Teej
To deal with follow through, do the following:
Hold the trigger to the rear after the shor breaks
Rack the slide with your support hand
After you reestablish you two handed grip, reset the trigger by allowing the trigger to move forward until you hear and/or feel the sear reset
Shoot again
repeat as necessary
 
I too agree that dry fire practice is very useful. Dry fire is not just pulling the trigger on an empty gun. So much can be practiced with dry firing such as your draw and presentation, target transitions, reloads and malfunction clearing. I dry fire regularly especially when I can't get to the range as often as I would like.

I use a shot timer to practice responding to a stimulis. You can set up full size targets in your basement or down sized targets to simulate targets at a distance. Using the shot timer you can set a "par time" and use it to judge your speed on performing different tasks such as draw and fire one shot on a target, reload from slide lock and fire one shot, and clearing a double feed to one shot. Your imagination is the limit. I shoot double action Sigs and I feel having the long double action pull while dry firing is an asset because it forces you to take a strong non-firing hand grip on the gun and keep it from moving while manipulating the trigger. Single and double action shots with live ammo are much easier after doing the dry fire this way.

Just some food for thought.
 
Wall drill has helped tighten my groupings substantially. All you need is ten minutes a couple of times a week....thanks Chuck!
 
I can attest to dry fire.... when Jim adopted me, he made me dry fire for hours and shoot for minutes! Literally, I would dry fire 50 shots to 1 live shot! It was almost overnight and my trigger control / shooting became 200% better. and dont forget you do not pull the trigger; "You press the trigger" and "every 1 shot should have 2 site pics."

Thanks again Jim!

Bobby Mac -NEShooters Staff - Instructor
[email protected]
www.neshooters.com

NRA Certified: Home Firearm Safety - Pistol - Rifle
 
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Booby Mac's post is very troubling to me and now is the time to put an end to the problem.
I did not ever adopt him and I have never even considered doing so.
Even after a bunch of good beer, I have never considered it
If I did it in a drunken stupor, I would be cursing myself for the rest of my life.

Please understand that Bobby Mac is just a youngster that is kind of like a growth that no doctor can ever cure.
My advice to all of you is to pay no attention to him. IF you do not heed my advice, you will suffer like I do
If you happen to say something nice to him, you will regret it, because he will grab onto you and drive you crazy
 
Mr. Conway:

At first I thought your posting was a joke, and it dawned on me that it doesn't sound at all like you're attempting sarcasm.

Although I do know Bobby, I'm not sure what the history, business or personal, is between you two. However, I do know that it is not acceptable in a polite society to air dirty laundry in public. I took your post to be very disrespectful to Bobby Mac who, as I interpreted his post, complimented your teaching abilities as his mentor, and offered good honest advice to the original poster in the thread.

I sincerely hope that your post was intended as a joke. If it wasn't, I would have expected that you,as an experienced instructor, would have the decency and professionalism to take up your issues with Bobby Mac and his post in private.

Mr. Conway, I am curious, what part of Bobby Mac's advice about dry firing is "very troubling" to you?
 
Mr. Conway, I am curious, what part of Bobby Mac's advice about dry firing is "very troubling" to you?

foghorn.jpg
 
Some of you do not read very well or I was not very clear, so i will try to be
specific.
I have no issues with Bobby's comments on Dry Firing
In fact I applaud him for his comments
If anyone noticed the words "Dry Fire" never appeared in my post.

I consider Bobby as a close friend, but I did not adopt him.
My post was an inside joke between Bobby and I.
Is this clear??
 
Dry Fire

I have a dry fire tool for the Mil .45. It was probably made before WWII. It consists of wooden box holding a brass dowel about .410" in diameter, hollow, with a small shaft through it. On the leading edge of the shaft is a pin point. The back edge of the shaft is a little larger than the size of a primer, smaller than the dowel.

There are small paper targets with scoring rings. Two targets per target, one over the top of the other, barely separated. Pinning the twin targets to a cork bulletin board, one inserts the brass dowel into an empty 45 barrel sliding it all the way in until it contacts the breach face. The brass dowel is as long as the length of the barrel.

The targets are of a small size where when you aim a military 45 at the top target, the muzzle is pointing at the lower target. Because you are 1/2" away from the target and it is small, it appears in the sight picture that you are shooting at a standard size target at 50 feet. When you squeeze the trigger, the pinpoint is driven forward and the dowel moves forward a bit. The pin marks the lower target. Tip the pistol vertical and the dowel slides back into proper position to the breach and the pinpoint resets. Recock the hammer and continue. You even get a target you can score just like a real one.

Pin hole a target to the point they are hard to see where you are hitting them, then flip it over and shoot the other target.
 
Wall drill has helped tighten my groupings substantially. All you need is ten minutes a couple of times a week....thanks Chuck!

Glad to help. I leared about the Wall Drill at the Sig School. It was worth the price of admission alone. You can do wall drills and get tighter groups or go to the range, waste ammo and get frustrated. I wish someone had told me about the Wall Drill when I 1st started shooting. I would have saved a lot of wasted ammo and time.

And you're more than welcome.
 
Years ago a well known Border patrol agent, Bill Jordan, made a comment that he could make anyone an expert shot with only one box of ammunition.
To achieve this they had to follow his instructions, which, of course, included a lot of dry firing.
 
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