DUI/OUI a deal breaker?

If you have a CONVICTION you are a Federally Prohibited Person, even if somehow you got someone to issue a LTC, you would never make it past the 4473 form, and if you bought privately and were ever found to be in possession of the weapon or have access to one you are FUBAR'd

Not if you obtained relief from the FLRB first.


There are instances where MA has issued FID cards to people that were Fed disqualified, it is a Catch 22 situation.

Agreed. But in the light of Caron, it's not advisable to possess any firearms in such a case.

If someone has a first time DWI conviction there must have been other charges involved or they had really lousy counsel, or went in pro se and took it up the backside.

99.9% of all first time DWI's are CWOF'd with drunk school, license suspension, and a stiff fine agreed to.

Not true. The person could have had a long criminal record or a very high breathalyzer that prevented the Judge from allowing a CWOF (or the prosecutor from not agreeing to the plea). Also, a first offense conviction could result from a defendant that brought the case to trial and was found guilty. While I agree that most first offense OUI's result in a CWOF, it's certainly not 99.9%.
 
I was about to disagree and say that the FLRB could not reinstate your federal rights however, if you read the exception below, if certain stipulations are met, one of them being your right to possess a firearm in the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred the person is not prohibited, you may no longer be federally prohibited.
ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Part I
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for morethan one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?
EXCPTION to 11.c. and 11.i.:A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or
the person has had their civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) taken away and later restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 11.c. or 11.i., as applicable
 
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The federal government does not recognize the restoration of 2A rights by the FLRB. There are people in Massachusetts who have post '94 OUI convictions, have sought and received FRLB relief, have an LTC and are still federally prohibited. They cannot pass a NICS check, even after having pursued the UPIN and VAF routes. We know this to be true and have fully tested it.
 
1) When did these laws get put in place?

The change in MA law that raised the potential penalty for first offense OUI to 2.5 years, consequently rendering one a Federally prohibited person, took effect on 5/26/94.

2) What if the person had a LTC at the time of the OUI?

Prior to 5/26/94 it was not a statutory disqualifier, but there was the risk of revocation via "unsuitability".
 
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The federal government does not recognize the restoration of 2A rights by the FLRB. There are people in Massachusetts who have post '94 OUI convictions, have sought and received FRLB relief, have an LTC and are still federally prohibited. They cannot pass a NICS check, even after having pursued the UPIN and VAF routes. We know this to be true and have fully tested it.
That is what I thought, but seeing the exception gave me hope. I should have known someone else would have already been all over that one.

Perhaps if they were able to get the OUI expunged? I know it would still show up on the background check, but I am talking about restoring federal rights.

Just another reason I tell people all the time not to mess around with drinking and driving. The likelihood of actually killing someone is low, it's the crap you will lose legally if caught that will affect you for the rest of your life. This of course isn't to say killing someone while drinking and driving is not bad, just not as likely as the other bad stuff.
 
There is not mechanism in Massachusetts to expunge a criminal record and if there were I'm not sure that would help on the federal end. The only option I'm aware of is a pardon or vacation of conviction.

It's ironic that an OUI conviction will get you a lifetime firearms ban, but you can get your driver's license back in as little as 6 months.
 
The change in MA law that raised the potential penalty for first offense OUI to 2.5 years, consequently rendering one a Federally prohibited person, took effect on 5/26/94.

So after 1994 anyone convicted of an OUI could no longer get a LTC in MA.



Prior to 5/26/94 it was not a statutory dis-qualifier, but there was the risk of revocation via "unsuitability".

I was more thinking of a situation where after 94 a person obtains an LTC, then gets caught for an OUI. So basically that would be an automatic dis-qualifier for renewal.
 
So after 1994 anyone convicted of an OUI could no longer get a LTC in MA.

I was more thinking of a situation where after 94 a person obtains an LTC, then gets caught for an OUI. So basically that would be an automatic dis-qualifier for renewal.

Not only that, but they also become a federally prohibited person. Meaning they cannot legally posess firearms, even if they move to a free state.
 
So after 1994 anyone convicted of an OUI could no longer get a LTC in MA.

I would put it a little differently. If you get convicted of a first time OUI in MA after 1994, you are a federally prohibited person. It is not just that you can't get an LTC but that it would be a federal felony for you to possess a firearm or ammunition.

In contrast, if you were convicted of a first time OUI in MA prior to that date in 1994, you are not a federally prohibited person.

I was more thinking of a situation where after 94 a person obtains an LTC, then gets caught for an OUI. So basically that would be an automatic dis-qualifier for renewal.

I think you are missing the point. If they get convicted of an OUI, the police chief would send officers over to revoke their LTC and confiscate their guns and ammo. They could never possess a gun or ammunition again inside or outside of MA.
 
The federal government does not recognize the restoration of 2A rights by the FLRB. There are people in Massachusetts who have post '94 OUI convictions, have sought and received FRLB relief, have an LTC and are still federally prohibited. They cannot pass a NICS check, even after having pursued the UPIN and VAF routes. We know this to be true and have fully tested it.

The logic the feds are using is that "Federal law provides for the restoration of gun rights if the individual's civil rights have been restored by the state. Since an individual convicted of a misdafelony (including OUI first offense) in MA never lost their right to vote, that person never had his/her civil rights taken away, therefore, a FLRB relief is not restoration of civil rights and thus does not restore gun rights."

This logic was originally fabricated so the feds could refuse to recognize the restoration of gun rights that CA will grant, under certain circumstances, to persons with domestic violence misdemeanors on their record.
 
I was about to disagree and say that the FLRB could not reinstate your federal rights however, if you read the exception below, if certain stipulations are met, one of them being your right to possess a firearm in the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred the person is not prohibited, you may no longer be federally prohibited.
ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Part I
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for morethan one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?
EXCPTION to 11.c. and 11.i.:A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or
the person has had their civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) taken away and later restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 11.c. or 11.i., as applicable

This line I hilighed in red is the key. The feds position is that an OUI convict in MA never lost their right to vote, sit in a jury, etc. therefore, the FLRB is not "restoring civil rights".
 
It's related, but he should still get the FLRB relief and then sit tight and call us. Sorry, I forgot that little tid bit.

If I could add to this - follow Terraformers advice and seek FLRB relief, but do not attempt to purchase a gun without first talking to COMM2A. FLRB restoration doesn't mean you're out of the woods and attempting a purchase could compromise your case.
 
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Thanks all for providing clarity on the laws. It is absolutely ridiculous that the exact same offense can be handled differently even if they only occurred a month apart.
 
Any light at the end of the tunnel?

If you have a CONVICTION you are a Federally Prohibited Person, even if somehow you got someone to issue a LTC, you would never make it past the 4473 form, and if you bought privately and were ever found to be in possession of the weapon or have access to one you are FUBAR'd


There are instances where MA has issued FID cards to people that were Fed disqualified, it is a Catch 22 situation.

If someone has a first time DWI conviction there must have been other charges involved or they had really lousy counsel, or went in pro se and took it up the backside.

99.9% of all first time DWI's are CWOF'd with drunk school, license suspension, and a stiff fine agreed to.

I was 20 years old at the time and there was a zero tolerance for the breathalyzer(had 2 beers), I would of passed if 21. I even passed the field sobriety test which I guess is un heard of. And to think I was pulled over because a good Samaritan called the police because my friend in the passenger seat was waiving at people he knew on the highway(arm out the window). I remember it vividly "I know that the evidence is in your favor but you sir will be my example case" Conviction! Did I mention the good Samaritan was buddies with the local judge, yeah awesome. 13 years later and the rest of my life could be affected due to this, my 1st, only and last OUI offense. So it looks like I'm that .01% lucky me.[crying]

Moving forward I have done countless hours of research on this and hope there will be some light at the end of the tunnel. I Just paid for and sent in my application which will be denied and I will take that to the FLRB. Once there, appeal the denial and receive relief then contact comma2 and see what I have to do from there.

Hopefully this isn't the end for me with my 2A and there is a way to be restored. Any info, suggestions and or recommendations would be great. Thank you to all that have replied and for future comments good or bad.

Nick K
Unfortunate Mass Resident[sad]
 
Not so hypothetical,

2 events:

- DUI in ME (pre '94) while living in MA, and
- DUI in Bermuda in 2008 (living in Bermuda while spouse was employed as an "ex-pat"), then subsequently moved back to MA. My understanding is that this individual had dual drivers licenses (Bermudian International and MA License)

The first event I gather the individual might get a "pass", but what about the second item? Would Bermuda share this info with MA and, if so, shit-out-of-luck on an LTC (or worse)?
 
I remember it vividly "I know that the evidence is in your favor but you sir will be my example case" Conviction!

What exactly were you convicted of? What does your BOP/CORI show?

.02 will let them pull your license if you're under 21 (an administrative action), but .08 is still required for an OUI conviction (criminal conviction).
 
- DUI in ME (pre '94) while living in MA, and
- DUI in Bermuda in 2008

The 1994 date is only relevant to a Mass conviction, because, in 1994, Massachusetts changed the laws to make a dui conviction punishable by 2 1/2 years in jail. Under Federal law, that makes it a felony.

It depends on whether Maine and/or Bermuda convictions count as felonies.
 
I was 20 years old at the time and there was a zero tolerance for the breathalyzer(had 2 beers), I would of passed if 21. I even passed the field sobriety test which I guess is un heard of. And to think I was pulled over because a good Samaritan called the police because my friend in the passenger seat was waiving at people he knew on the highway(arm out the window). I remember it vividly "I know that the evidence is in your favor but you sir will be my example case" Conviction! Did I mention the good Samaritan was buddies with the local judge, yeah awesome. 13 years later and the rest of my life could be affected due to this, my 1st, only and last OUI offense. So it looks like I'm that .01% lucky me.[crying]

Moving forward I have done countless hours of research on this and hope there will be some light at the end of the tunnel. I Just paid for and sent in my application which will be denied and I will take that to the FLRB. Once there, appeal the denial and receive relief then contact comma2 and see what I have to do from there.

Hopefully this isn't the end for me with my 2A and there is a way to be restored. Any info, suggestions and or recommendations would be great. Thank you to all that have replied and for future comments good or bad.

Nick K
Unfortunate Mass Resident[sad]

Go to the courthouse and request a copy of your docket. Find out the exact charge and desposition on the charge. I'd still think you'd have to be over MA Legal limit to get a OUI but IANAL. I'd got get your docket before you worry.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
What exactly were you convicted of? What does your BOP/CORI show?

.02 will let them pull your license if you're under 21 (an administrative action), but .08 is still required for an OUI conviction (criminal conviction).

Minor possession alcohol: Conviction
Operating under Influence of Liquor: Conviction.
 
If you have a guilty conviction and was denied an LTC... what are your odds for receiving an FID? OUI was over 10 years ago just for reference and only CORI issue. Or would it be a better option to pursue an attorney and present a case in front of the review board? Thanks
 
If you have a guilty conviction and was denied an LTC... what are your odds for receiving an FID? OUI was over 10 years ago just for reference and only CORI issue. Or would it be a better option to pursue an attorney and present a case in front of the review board? Thanks
You should pursue an LTC. If you're unable to obtain an LTC you should apply for an FID as that is 'shall' issue.

That said, be aware that if you have a post-94 OUI conviction you are still prohibited federally, even if the state gives you an LTC or FID. This may seem pointless, but if you want to have your rights fully restored you need to start somewhere and take advantage of whatever remedies are available to you at this time.

PM Sent
 
Any light at the end of the tunnel?



I was 20 years old at the time and there was a zero tolerance for the breathalyzer(had 2 beers), I would of passed if 21. I even passed the field sobriety test which I guess is un heard of. And to think I was pulled over because a good Samaritan called the police because my friend in the passenger seat was waiving at people he knew on the highway(arm out the window). I remember it vividly "I know that the evidence is in your favor but you sir will be my example case" Conviction! Did I mention the good Samaritan was buddies with the local judge, yeah awesome. 13 years later and the rest of my life could be affected due to this, my 1st, only and last OUI offense. So it looks like I'm that .01% lucky me.[crying]

Moving forward I have done countless hours of research on this and hope there will be some light at the end of the tunnel. I Just paid for and sent in my application which will be denied and I will take that to the FLRB. Once there, appeal the denial and receive relief then contact comma2 and see what I have to do from there.

Hopefully this isn't the end for me with my 2A and there is a way to be restored. Any info, suggestions and or recommendations would be great. Thank you to all that have replied and for future comments good or bad.

Nick K
Unfortunate Mass Resident[sad]
 
Hello kick , I feel your pain. My oui was 20 years ago. Another lifetime ago ! I have been threw hell with this LTC business in mass !! It has cost me thousands to defend myself and keep fighting for my 2a rights !! I have grown up around guns and at the gun club. I was found to be “ suitable “ by the flrb and obtained my license to Cary concealed. It lasted 2 1/2 years before the shit hit the fan last month. Now I’m back to to zero. Thousands spent on legal fees , ammo and legally purchased guns , gone. I pray Jason and the rest of the boys get with cavanaugh and get this squared away. It’s my only hope. Has anyone reached out to you from comm 2a ???
 
Did you have competent counsel? If so, were you offered the standard CWOF + 24D alcohol diversion program?

Comm2A is working on this issue, but it is a long, slow process ... complicated by the fact that the federal court denied standing on Heller issues because of the erroneous assertion by the AG that a PTP+FID allowed one to buy and maintain a handgun in the home. Just proving that federal decision wrong is a long, complicated process - because we have to convince a court that very much wants to find against us at every turn.

I have seen many screw jobs with gun rights in MA, some public, and some not. This FLRB voidification by the feds is by far the largest and furthest reaching.
 
Did you have competent counsel? If so, were you offered the standard CWOF + 24D alcohol diversion program?

Comm2A is working on this issue, but it is a long, slow process ... complicated by the fact that the federal court denied standing on Heller issues because of the erroneous assertion by the AG that a PTP+FID allowed one to buy and maintain a handgun in the home. Just proving that federal decision wrong is a long, complicated process - because we have to convince a court that very much wants to find against us at every turn.

I have seen many screw jobs with gun rights in MA, some public, and some not. This FLRB voidification by the feds is by far the largest and furthest reaching.
I did 2weeks in Tewksbury in the “dual “ program. No cwof. No personal injuries or otherwise when I got poped. I was on rt 3 in Quincy.
 
Perhaps if they were able to get the OUI expunged? I know it would still show up on the background check, but I am talking about restoring federal rights.
MA does not have "expungement". The options are governor's pardon with explicit restoration of firearms rights or having the case re-opened, the guilty plea or finding withdrawn, and a different disposition entered. The courts are much more likely to do this for an illegal immigrant facing deportation for a criminal record than they are for an upstanding citizen with the proverbial youthful indiscretion.
 
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