duty to retreat in home

5 DOLLAR FOOT LONG

5 DOLLAR FOOT LONG

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Renewed today and had to sign a thing clarifying the justifiable use of lethal force. One of the sections basically said in a home invasion scenario where youre in danger you dont have a duty to retreat. - which is the opposite of what I thought the law was. Kind of surprising. Have not had to sign such a thing on previous renewals.
 
Fencer is correct, but be aware that MA has a very strict definition of "in your home". The BG must be within the 4 walls. Your porch doesn't count. Neither does if the BG has one foot in and one foot out the door. A detached garage doesn't count, and an attached one is questionable.
 
It’s called the ‘Castle Doctrine.’ I was surprised when guys in the Mill in line didn’t know about it. Know your target and what’s beyond it and Keep Calm and Aim Center Mass™.

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

“Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.”
 
cockpitbob said:
Neither does if the BG has one foot in and one foot out the door.
Click to expand...
This.
The cop that I got my basic firearms safety course from told me to drag the perp back in, but I think that advice would be ill advised, state of modern forensics science being what it is.
But I think what it really comes down to is that there are certain circumstances that would require a lethal response, but if you are wrong, you could spend the rest of your life in prison, so you better make damn sure it's worth it.
 
fencer said:
This.
The cop that I got my basic firearms safety course from told me to drag the perp back in, but I think that advice would be ill advised, state of modern forensics science being what it is.
But I think what it really comes down to is that there are certain circumstances that would require a lethal response, but if you are wrong, you could spend the rest of your life in prison, so you better make damn sure it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Back in the day, once I was old enough to have my own handgun in the house both my Dad and local Sheriff advised (separately) if the perp wasn't across the threshold- drag him across. This was down south in a state that is very supportive of 2A. Basically the cop was saying do what you need to do but don't put them in a bad position once they arrive on the scene. There a B&E with you in the residence created the assumption that you were in danger. Not sure how that works in Mass- perp has to be actively shooting or pressing the button to a backpack nuke?

In a larger city, my first night in my very first apartment I had a forced entry with one guy crossing the threshold and two others stopping in their tracks outside the door. They all hauled ass because I knew the door was going to give and I was waiting w/ a S&W 686. Calling 911 would have been pointless, so I didn't. I was well within my rights to pop the first guy but didn't want to deal with the literal and figurative mess.
 
Mountain said:
Back in the day, once I was old enough to have my own handgun in the house both my Dad and local Sheriff advised (separately) if the perp wasn't across the threshold- drag him across. This was down south in a state that is very supportive of 2A. Basically the cop was saying do what you need to do but don't put them in a bad position once they arrive on the scene. There a B&E with you in the residence created the assumption that you were in danger. Not sure how that works in Mass- perp has to be actively shooting or pressing the button to a backpack nuke?

In a larger city, my first night in my very first apartment I had a forced entry with one guy crossing the threshold and two others stopping in their tracks outside the door. They all hauled ass because I knew the door was going to give and I was waiting w/ a S&W 686. Calling 911 would have been pointless, so I didn't. I was well within my rights to pop the first guy but didn't want to deal with the literal and figurative mess.
Click to expand...
You're obviously some kind of subversive plant. You working for FBI or ATF? Fess up.

We all KNOW that firearms were designed to KILL, not prevent bad situations from getting worse. Impossible to use them defensively.

I hate liars.

Hey guys - he knows I'm only joking, right? Right...?
 
Ultrarunner said:
I need to move back to Massachusetts and become a scumbag. I can break into your house and expect to not be ventilated? Heck ya!
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Your assumption would be incorrect. If the homeowner claims that he felt his life was being threatened, he is well within his legal rights to deploy and activate his wireless hole puncher.
 
My home is 2 stories, with the bedrooms all upstairs.
As a family, we have talked about what to do in the event of various emergencies. If someone were to break in, my wife is to arm herself, gather the kids ( only one left at home and she is 21) in the bedroom, and call 911. I will take a position in the bathroom at the top of the stairs.
Perp can leave with whatever he wants, I will not engage, but there is no way he is coming up those stairs.
I don't care if he leaves with the TV, silverware, electronics, whatever.
The wife also has explicit instructions to tell the 911 dispatcher to please refrain from shooting the white guy in his underwear and the Black Labrador Retriever.

But it is pretty unlikely a common burglar would try to enter a house with a barking dog, going ballistic.
 
Mountain said:
Back in the day, once I was old enough to have my own handgun in the house both my Dad and local Sheriff advised (separately) if the perp wasn't across the threshold- drag him across. This was down south in a state that is very supportive of 2A. Basically the cop was saying do what you need to do but don't put them in a bad position once they arrive on the scene. There a B&E with you in the residence created the assumption that you were in danger. Not sure how that works in Mass- perp has to be actively shooting or pressing the button to a backpack nuke?

In a larger city, my first night in my very first apartment I had a forced entry with one guy crossing the threshold and two others stopping in their tracks outside the door. They all hauled ass because I knew the door was going to give and I was waiting w/ a S&W 686. Calling 911 would have been pointless, so I didn't. I was well within my rights to pop the first guy but didn't want to deal with the literal and figurative mess.
Click to expand...

Just to be argumentative... if the other two guys represented a threat of serious bodily harm or death, I believe in MA you have a right to defend yourself whether they are inside the threshold or not.
 
fencer said:
My home is 2 stories, with the bedrooms all upstairs.
As a family, we have talked about what to do in the event of various emergencies. If someone were to break in, my wife is to arm herself, gather the kids ( only one left at home and she is 21) in the bedroom, and call 911. I will take a position in the bathroom at the top of the stairs.
Perp can leave with whatever he wants, I will not engage, but there is no way he is coming up those stairs.
I don't care if he leaves with the TV, silverware, electronics, whatever.
The wife also has explicit instructions to tell the 911 dispatcher to please refrain from shooting the white guy in his underwear and the Black Labrador Retriever.

But it is pretty unlikely a common burglar would try to enter a house with a barking dog, going ballistic.
Click to expand...


Boxers or briefs???

:-)
 
fencer said:
My home is 2 stories, with the bedrooms all upstairs.
As a family, we have talked about what to do in the event of various emergencies. If someone were to break in, my wife is to arm herself, gather the kids ( only one left at home and she is 21) in the bedroom, and call 911. I will take a position in the bathroom at the top of the stairs.
Perp can leave with whatever he wants, I will not engage, but there is no way he is coming up those stairs.
I don't care if he leaves with the TV, silverware, electronics, whatever.
The wife also has explicit instructions to tell the 911 dispatcher to please refrain from shooting the white guy in his underwear and the Black Labrador Retriever.

But it is pretty unlikely a common burglar would try to enter a house with a barking dog, going ballistic.
Click to expand...
This, all day long.
Do everything you can to not kill someone. Even it is a totally justified shoot, it will be the start of the worst and most expensive period in your life.
 
fencer said:
Assuming you live in Mass, you have no duty to retreat in your home, and can use deadly force if absolutely necessary, to stop a lethal threat towards yourself, your family or anyone else you have allowed into your home.

That doesn't mean you won't be arrested and have your life ruined.
Click to expand...

Where does the law stand if someone is shooting into your house from the outside, through windows, walls, etc; occupants lives are in danger, and it is too risky to exit? Does Castle not apply? Are you not legally allowed to defend?
 
5 DOLLAR FOOT LONG said:
Renewed today and had to sign a thing clarifying the justifiable use of lethal force. One of the sections basically said in a home invasion scenario where youre in danger you dont have a duty to retreat. - which is the opposite of what I thought the law was. Kind of surprising. Have not had to sign such a thing on previous renewals.
Click to expand...
I would not have signed it. I would instead call a firearms attorney. (worth the money). We go through enough circus hoops for a right.
 
Individualist said:
Where does the law stand if someone is shooting into your house from the outside, through windows, walls, etc; occupants lives are in danger, and it is too risky to exit? Does Castle not apply? Are you not legally allowed to defend?
Click to expand...
You only have a duty to retreat IF you can do so without adding to the danger.

If you're armed and the BG is close and advancing on you, don't turn your back to him and run. Your safest option is to shoot.
 
Individualist said:
Where does the law stand if someone is shooting into your house from the outside, through windows, walls, etc; occupants lives are in danger, and it is too risky to exit? Does Castle not apply? Are you not legally allowed to defend?
Click to expand...
I will be the first to admit that, not being an attorney, I am not 100% sure what the letter of the law says.
But, to be perfectly honest, even if I lived in a state that gave me more broad rights of self defense, my response would be the same. I would not kill someone over a TV or personal property.

Conversely, I really don't care what the law says if someone is trying to kill me or my loved ones. I am going to return fire if capable.

There are some things that are worth spending the rest of your life in prison for. Regardless of what the law says. If someone seriously hurt my wife or kids, or tried to, I really wouldn't care what the law said.
I'm not claiming to be Billy Bad Ass or trying to be an internet tough guy, but the laws of God supersede the laws of man. I believe that when you take a wife and have a family you should be willing to do whatever is necessary to keep them safe. Hopefully, you can do this without breaking the law.
 
Scenario: One story house, in the bathroom across the hall from the master bedroom, wearing just boxers and a T-shirt, brushing your teeth getting ready for bed. Wife and puppy are already in bed in the master bedroom. Your handgun is in the gun safe by the bed. While you are brushing your teeth, you hear a commotion at the bathroom window behind the curtains and you see the lock get popped and the window start to slide up and a gloved hand reaches in on the sill. You immediately retreat across the hall to tell your wife to call 911 and stay put with the puppy and you pop the safe and grab your gun.

If you don't stay in the bedroom, but instead go back out across the hall and into the bathroom to see if the intruder left or continued into the house and you encounter said armed intruder and shoot, is there an argument that you went 'hunting' instead of taking a defensive position in a known safe place away from the intruder and engaged if and only if he breached the bedroom door?
 
Given your hypothetical scenario:
Why not slam the window down on the perp's hand/arm? Broken bones in the hand/arm would definitely slow him down, loss of strength to continue thru the window. Then yell to your wife and arm yourself.
 

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