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EVERY SHOOTER Should Get a C&R FFL!

"What we all agree on is that you do NOT have to enter items that you already own that are C&R items."

Don

Thanks Don ....That clears up about the C&R stuff I already have...Gary [grin]
 
I didn't hear back for 6 weeks after I sent out my forms. Just got something in the mail saying my card didn't go through... Or there was a problem with it. o_O So I have to fill it out again and mail it back. *Shrug*
 
Call them back, get the person's name and ask if you send in another copy can they please put it at the top of the pile.

I had a 5320 kick back to me on a NFA firearm because I did not yet have a MA LTC. I spoke to the person, got their name and asked if I could send the new form in "Attn Their Name" after I got my LTC.

They said they would be happy to help. They even let me email scans of the 5320s and my LTC. The person emailed me when it was approved so I could bring the stuff into MA. By the time I had an opportunity to bring anything to the range, the paper copies had arrived.

The guys name was Chaisson. Super helpful. Unfortunately, I found out he is not a civil servant. He's a contractor hired to take up the slack. Too bad. He was awesome in his efficiency.
 
dcmdon said:
If I want to move something out of the A&D book and into my personal collection, a 4473 is not required, but I must do a NICS check on myself and complete any paperwork required by the state I'm in.
Click to expand...

I do not doubt you on this, Don... but it may be one of the most stupid regulations I've ever heard of.
 
dwarven1 said:
I do not doubt you on this, Don... but it may be one of the most stupid regulations I've ever heard of.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I get a good laugh when i fill out the DPS-3 that is required for the transfer.

The seller's signature is right next to the buyers signature, and they are both my signatures.
The NICS check requirement is enshrined in legislation. Not regulation. The ATF does what they can within the law by not requiring me to do a 4473 when i transfer into my personal collection. But there is nothing anyone can doe about the requirement for a NICS check.
 
dcmdon said:
Uncle Griz

Just to clarify. What len and Kevlar have said is that if you buy ANY C&R firearm, even if you didn't buy it with your C&R license. (lets say you just happened to see one at a gun shop you liked and did a standard retail sale with a 4473 and a NICS check) you still have to put it in your bound book.

What I said, was that unless you actually used your C&R FFL to buy the item, you don't have to put it in your book. Len and Kevlar disagree with me, and they are probably right. I'm probably wrong. But I'll bounce it off my friendly local ATF agent on Monday. I'll also ask her to cite the regulation. She's good about looking that stuff up for me.

What we all agree on is that you do NOT have to enter items that you already own that are C&R items.

Don
Click to expand...


They are correct. Think of it as you being licensed, not that you received a paper that you use. YOU are licensed as an 03 FFL, so should you acquire a C&R item during the time that YOU are licensed, you must record it in your bound book.
 
Emoto said:
They are correct. Think of it as you being licensed, not that you received a paper that you use. YOU are licensed as an 03 FFL, so should you acquire a C&R item during the time that YOU are licensed, you must record it in your bound book.
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Yes, but the 03 is the only FFL where that is so. If you are a dealer or a manufacturer, even if its in your name, as opposed to a corp, you are able to differentiate between what is in your inventory and what is in your personal collection. Its inconsistent . . oh wait. Nevermind. We're talking Government here.
 
dcmdon said:
Yes, but the 03 is the only FFL where that is so. If you are a dealer or a manufacturer, even if its in your name, as opposed to a corp, you are able to differentiate between what is in your inventory and what is in your personal collection. Its inconsistent . . oh wait. Nevermind. We're talking Government here.
Click to expand...

True and I was thinking that this was the cause of your believing differently. Dealer/Mfr FFLs have to tag "personal collection" guns or not store them with business stock. C&R FFLs are ONLY allowed to be collectors so all guns are "personal collection" and thus BATFE treats them differently wrt what needs to be recorded or accountable.
 
So what happens when I buy something that may be 50 years old, but I don't have an exact date? For example, I had an older Remington 870 that was around 50 years old. Assuming I bought it after I receive my C&R, do I have an obligation to research this gun and find out the date (I believe you have to call Remington to actually get a date for 870s)? I'm not trying to be obtuse or nitpicky - I just want to make sure I don't do something that could lead to trouble if, God forbid, I ever had my stuff inspected by the government.

Also, they charged my card on April 27th - we'll see how long it takes.
 
You are way way way over-thinking it. If you think its 50 years old, put it in the book. If you don't, don't. If you have doubt, put it in. No harm no foul. The ATF has much better (and sometimes more sinister) things to do than hassle C&R holders over 49 year old guns.
 
I get that and I don't worry about an average ATF visit. I tend to think of these things in a worst case scenario situation - usually, from the standpoint of being investigated in the event that I actually have to use one of my guns in self-defense. We all know Mass will crawl up your ass trying to find something wrong with the fact that you defended yourself, so it's not a stretch to imagine a scenario where the BATFE would do the same.

And yes, I know I am way way over thinking this, but I do think it's a shame how convoluted and difficult to understand these laws are. Trying to do the legal thing is almost impossible because nobody is ever really sure what the hell the laws mean for certain.

In the end, I'll just throw things in the book that I buy that are around 50 years old, but I'd feel better having a clear set of guidelines.
 
Received my first confirmation that my account was upgraded to dealer status at MidwayUSA. Was able to fax them a copy of the license instead of mailing it out. Still have to get a list together of others to send copies too.
 
That Guy said:
I get that and I don't worry about an average ATF visit. I tend to think of these things in a worst case scenario situation - usually, from the standpoint of being investigated in the event that I actually have to use one of my guns in self-defense. We all know Mass will crawl up your ass trying to find something wrong with the fact that you defended yourself, so it's not a stretch to imagine a scenario where the BATFE would do the same.

And yes, I know I am way way over thinking this, but I do think it's a shame how convoluted and difficult to understand these laws are. Trying to do the legal thing is almost impossible because nobody is ever really sure what the hell the laws mean for certain.

In the end, I'll just throw things in the book that I buy that are around 50 years old, but I'd feel better having a clear set of guidelines.
Click to expand...

I don't share your sentiments, however no harm could come from putting anything that might be in doubt into the book. If you have to use a firearm in self defense, its doubtful the ATF would ever even be called. The last time I heard of that was in Brookline last summer, when they were trying to figure out if the guys '90s era rifles were AWs and if the threaded pipes he had were suppressors. On another note, isn't it funny that we never herd anything else about that guy.

Don
 
He sounded legitimately wacko. So I'm guessing not.

Richard Becker's attorney actually argued that he had mental health issues. So its unlikely he will ever see them again.

The disgusting thing is that he really did not commit any crimes. All the guns were owned before his "lifetime" FID was cancelled. The "silencers" were obviously fake. Nothing more than barrel extensions. Failure to renew a FID is an infraction.

So what we have is a group of cops bust into a guy's house. Find a bunch of guns and start throwing everything they can at the guy. Its disgusting.
 
I think they made me start all over again when i sent my corrected form back its been 3 weeks since I sent it back and I was charged in Jan will have to call tomorrow
 
In MA, a C&R is pretty much a prerequisite for owning getting a machine gun license.
It was explained to me by a local LEO that you need to either

1) be a collector (which the C&R is adequate proof of that)
2) be someone who trains law enforcement on the use of machine guns

in order to get a MG license. I'm not sure if he's 100% sure, but my C&R was all they wanted to see from me.

Other Class 3 stuff is not affected by you having a C&R.

If you have an 07 Manufacturers FFL, you can lawfully posses silencers.

SBRs, SBS, AOWs and DDs don't seem to have any tie to any type of FFL as far as I can find.

Don
 
Hi. Slowly working my way through the murky mire of ma. Gun laws.
I am a fairly recent mass class a LTC holder. I've been around shooting on and off since age 10 or so, just never on my own as an adult till now.
I'd like to maybe start collecting. My favorite handgun was always a colt 1911. Figured that would be one of my first purchases. Surprise ! Can't buy a new colt. So yeah I could get sw ruger ria etc...and probably will. But...need to have a(several at some point)colt. Mainly ww2 gi vintage and or earlier 1911. So seeing that limits me tremendously in this state...my option would be 50 year old 1911..with a cr..or move! I'd rather move..but wife family job etc. if I only knew when I lived in az and then later Florida ...would of started my new hobby then!
Can someone tell me what the detriments of a c and r are? I tried to read most of this thread but in short? can the "on the radar" be a reason not to get it? I feel I'm already on the radar just being in mass anyway..so not really overly concerned. Is it really as simple to get as I've read to get it?
thanks

Ps where would be good place to post on getting my non res ct carry permit? Already have course just don't know where to go next?
 
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dcmdon said:
In MA, a C&R is pretty much a prerequisite for owning getting a machine gun license.
It was explained to me by a local LEO that you need to either

1) be a collector (which the C&R is adequate proof of that)
2) be someone who trains law enforcement on the use of machine guns
Click to expand...

Unless, of course, you live in Marlborough, where Sgt Moran explains that just because you have a C&R he doesn't necessarily think you're a collector.

ssscamaro said:
Ps where would be good place to post on getting my non res ct carry permit? Already have course just don't know where to go next?
Click to expand...

Call the CT State PD for your application packet. Try this number: (860) 685-8290.

http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/slfu/pistol_permits/dps-769-c.pdf

I have no doubt that dmcdon will be along to correct me if I'm wrong. [wink]
 
Dwarven almost has it.

Follow and read the link he provided.

Then print this out: http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/slfu/pistol_permits/dps-799-c.pdf

Follow the instructions and mail it in.

In a few months you will get a non-resident CT permit.
CT requires a bit more training than MA. They require a NRA Basic Pistol certification. This includes live fire, something not required in MA.

If you took NRA BP, at any time, the certificate is good. It could be 20 years old and it will work.

Don

p.s. SSCamaro - I'm not an attorney, but pretty well versed in CT firearms law, so let me know ifyou ahve any more questions.

p.p.s. CT only cares about prior CONVICTIONS. If charges were dismissed, your charges were Nolle'd or you were acquitted, you do not have to mention anything. In fact CGS 54-142A requires all records of arrest and prosecution be destroyed if your charges are dismissed, nolle'd or you are acquitted. Like one judge explained to me "It didn't happen".


CHAPTER 961a* CRIMINAL RECORDS
 
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Hi thanks no problem with my record etc..
I have the NRA pistol certificate.
So I don't need to drive to ct and get fingerprinted etc at state police barracks?
That link is what I started filling out already but unsure of where To go? Do I need appt Etc for fingerinting or not?
It says need to provide...
  • Completed State of CT and Federalfingerprint card with $50.00 fee and$16.50 fee payable to Treasurer,State of Connecticut for criminalhistory background checks;
  • Firearms Safety & Use CourseCertificate;
  • $70.00 payable to Treasurer, Stateof Connecticut;
  • Completed Application for StatePermit to Carry Pistols andRevolvers form (DPS-46-C);
  • Complete DPS-129-C and attach2x2 color photograph (passportstyle), sign and notarize form;
  • A copy of the permit or license tocarry a pistol or revolver issued toyou by a recognized United Statesjurisdiction;
  • Proof you are legally and lawfully inthe United States (e.g., certified copyof birth certificate, U.S. passport ordocumentation issued by I.C.E.






  • etc....









Ryan
ps sorry to get off topic of c&r that was my main purpose posting in this thread
 
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