FA-10 "wording" Re: AR15 Lower in MA

[DrNVP]

so those who got a lower receiver FA-10'd to them thru a dealer should also submit a new FA-10 once they have built a complete firearm (according to the MA definition of firearm), am I correct?

i guess yes

 

[Kisspik002]

It was my understanding that on an ar15 platform the lower receiver was the only thing that needs to be registered or fa-10. So if you buy a stripped lower in ma it's registered once you buy it and if out of state you just need an fa-10 for the stripped lower and that was it

 

[Len-2A Training]

my wife asked me why i needed so many guns, i asked her why she needed so many shoes, she zipped right up!

I've done that a few times too. Pretty effective rebuttal and avoids a lengthy argument.

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It was my understanding that on an ar15 platform the lower receiver was the only thing that needs to be registered or fa-10. So if you buy a stripped lower in ma it's registered once you buy it and if out of state you just need an fa-10 for the stripped lower and that was it

Please read this thread.

Your understanding is wrong.

 

[CIby1012]

Which in itself is good enough reason to NEVER contact your PD about such matters. You just never know how they might react (think "suitability")!!

They don't understand that some people collect guns like some women collect shoes!

Meaning what? Im just outed myself using information they already know?

 

[dwarven1]

Which in itself is good enough reason to NEVER contact your PD about such matters. You just never know how they might react (think "suitability")!!

They don't understand that some people collect guns like some women collect shoes!

Uh... I have fewer shoes than guns.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Meaning what? Im just outed myself using information they already know?

No, the PD does not know what you own. They do have the ability to get a list of what is in the CJIS database, but that is not something they regularly do. If they get "spooked" by the info (quantity), you really never know how they might react.

Uh... I have fewer shoes than guns.

I could live with 2 pair of shoes. I couldn't live with just two guns!

 

[George D]

has to be "on file somewhere" for a particular gun, it states that the resident must submit a FA-10 within 7 days of acquisition, or in this case, upon completion, as it would then constitute a "rifle", as defined below.

It's only a firearm, rifle or shotgun under MA law when it is "...capable of firing a shot or bullet..."...



http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

This is why when I buy a lower private FTF, I don't send an FA-10 until it has a complete upper on it and I list it as "registration" with no seller info. The fact that everyone is doing it differently and no one at CHSB gives a flying forklift shows how messed up the system is.

 

[Terminator03]

I have read through this thread, and now I'm more confused than I was before. It was always my understanding that an FA10 had to be submitted once it was assembled into a complete firearm because the FFL is supposed to list a stripped lower as "other" on the original form. After looking at the actual law sections that were posted, it appears that there is no actual language that states you need to file another form, and the fact that the FFL transferred it to you originally, and the serial number was "registered" should be sufficient by my current understanding after reading this thread. It seems like the police were able to pull up the fact that the serial number was assigned to the poster that mentioned it so they do have it "registered". The reality is that the AR is a modular platform, so once the lower is registered it should cover the law since there are no other parts of the gun that are serialized, or considered a "firearm", and people often have more uppers than lowers anyway, so it would be pointless to even register as any given length since that can, and usually does change over the life of the rifle. Is my logic here flawed?

 

[CIby1012]

The reality is that the AR is a modular platform, so once the lower is registered it should cover the law since there are no other parts of the gun that are serialized, or considered a "firearm", and people often have more uppers than lowers anyway, so it would be pointless to even register as any given length since that can, and usually does change over the life of the rifle. Is my logic here flawed?

This is what I've taken from this conversation. I've decided not to send in a second FA-10, as I was told by my licensing officer not to do so. In the future, I believe I would go about this situation the same way. Because the lower is considered the firearm due to it having the serial number, and the law says that firearms purchased out of state need to be reported within 7 days, so thats what I think should be done.

 

[jasons]

Because the lower is considered the firearm due to it having the serial number, and the law says that firearms purchased out of state need to be reported within 7 days, so thats what I think should be done.

Just to be pedantic, it's a MA law (not a federal law) that requires that firearms need to be reported within 7 days. Since it's a MA law that you're attempting to comply with, shouldn't you use the MA definition of a "firearm?"

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just to be pedantic, it's a MA law (not a federal law) that requires that firearms need to be reported within 7 days. Since it's a MA law that you're attempting to comply with, shouldn't you use the MA definition of a "firearm?"

There you go, confusing people with facts again! <LOL>

 

[dwarven1]

Because the lower is considered the firearm due to it having the serial number, and the law says that firearms purchased out of state need to be reported within 7 days, so thats what I think should be done.

In Massachusetts, which is the entity you're sending that FA-10 to, a stripped lower is NOT considered a firearm. You send in the FA-10 only it's made into a completed firearm.

 

[Rancho]

So did I screw up?
I purchased four built lower receivers from a place in Ohio transferred to FFL. When we went to pick them up,one of the guys wasn't at the store to get it so I ended up taking possession of his and then transferred it to him via FA-10 which I filed with the board.

 

[fubar]

Last winter the gun store dude at Reilly's ( New Hampshire ) told me the new LAW was that stripped lowers were to be treated as handguns and shipped only to another FFL for out of state sales. ...

I left thinking he didn't know what he was talking about. But wanted to look into it further one day ....

 

[jasons]

Last winter the gun store dude at Reilly's ( New Hampshire ) told me the new LAW was that stripped lowers were to be treated as handguns and shipped only to another FFL for out of state sales. ...

I left thinking he didn't know what he was talking about. But wanted to look into it further one day ....

My understanding is that's not a new law so much as new guidance from the feds. Basically if it's something that ~could~ be made into a handgun they're advised to follow the rules for handguns, meaning it has to go to an in-state FFL. (Even if it's going to be turned into a rifle.)

None of which has anything at all to do with FA-10 forms by the way....

 

[Nicole]

Last winter the gun store dude at Reilly's ( New Hampshire ) told me the new LAW was that stripped lowers were to be treated as handguns and shipped only to another FFL for out of state sales. ...

I left thinking he didn't know what he was talking about. But wanted to look into it further one day ....

He was correct. That is the new federal view of things.

 

[fubar]

He was correct. That is the new federal view of things.

... by that line of thinking all shotguns can be cut down , and all AR's can be SBR'd. Oh , well. I gave up trying to figure out the " reasoning " of gun laws a long time ago. It's hard enough just trying to keep abreast of them.

 

[Nicole]

... by that line of thinking all shotguns can be cut down , and all AR's can be SBR'd. Oh , well. I gave up trying to figure out the " reasoning " of gun laws a long time ago. It's hard enough just trying to keep abreast of them.

Never said it was logical. *sigh*

 

[Kevlar]

Last winter the gun store dude at Reilly's ( New Hampshire ) told me the new LAW was that stripped lowers were to be treated as handguns and shipped only to another FFL for out of state sales. ...

I left thinking he didn't know what he was talking about. But wanted to look into it further one day ....

As jasons said, it's a "new" (2009) interpretation from the BATFE...

Age Restriction & Interstate Transfer Reminders

Licensees are reminded that firearm frames, receivers, and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns) are considered “Other Firearms.” They cannot be sold or delivered by a licensee to any person under 21 years of age. Additionally, 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3) states that a licensee shall not sell or deliver any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person who does not reside in the State in which the licensee’s place of business or activity is located; this restriction includes handguns, pistol grip firearms utilizing shotgun ammunition, and frames and receivers.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

 

[swampy]

Yeah same, I had never heard anything about registering again after a build. Delta - can you provide a source for this info?

I got 2 zombie lowers and did the federal paperwork at the transfer but was told the FA-10 doesn't need to be done until the rifle is completed.

 

[swampy]

It was my understanding that on an ar15 platform the lower receiver was the only thing that needs to be registered or fa-10. So if you buy a stripped lower in ma it's registered once you buy it and if out of state you just need an fa-10 for the stripped lower and that was it

The NEW lower is the only thing getting registered but it doesn't need to be registered until it becomes part of a completed rifle. Once it was part of a completed rifle then the FA-10 is needed even for a lower without an upper on it. That is what I was told before I aquired my lowers. I'd guess the best way to state the caliber is as MULTI. That is what I believe my lowers say. Imagine how you'd register a contender with a dozen or more barrels in various calibers? I'd list it as Multi also.

If you buy a stripped lower out of state it needs to be transfered by a MA dealer because it could be built as a pistol. IIRC once built as a rifle it cannot be made into a pistol. That is why we needed to have the zombie lowers shipped to FFLs.

 

[FreeWillie]

Uh... I have fewer shoes than guns.

Yup.

 

[Nicole]

Uh... I have fewer shoes than guns.

Me too!

 

[Duxprep]

Can someone define 'built as a rifle'? that the lower is attached to an upper? What if I own these parts but they arent attached. say I own 2 lowers and one upper? Are both lowers considered complted rifles because they could be attached?

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rob Boudrie]

putting a lower parts kit together and adding an upper is NOT "manufacturing" a firearm.... a completed (fully machined) stripped lower is a firearm already.....

Under federal law, yes.

Under Massachusetts law, no.

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Me too!

Impressive to hear that from a woman.

I think I have more guns that pairs of socks, but I have never bothered to count either.