FCAB April 2025 Meeting Notes

GOALJim

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FCAB April 2025 Meeting Notes



Long gun testing and roster:

The EOPSS attorney for the FCAB let us know that Secretary Reidy had approved the Board’s recommendation to exclude long guns from the testing requirements previously designed for handguns. The way this was accomplished was by utilizing the opening sentence in the Massachusetts gun law definition section. (Chapter 140, Section 121)

“Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131Y, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meaning”

The determination was that since the testing requirements in the handgun roster section of law would never work, and was not practical for long guns that the context did not apply. In short – there will be no testing requirements or roster for long guns.

Banned Assault Style Firearms Roster:

This continues to be a point of contention between GOAL and the rest of the FCAB members. GOAL reiterated at the April meeting that the draft did not meet the law nor does anything in the draft represent the current law. All we got was: “Noted” The consensus of the rest of the Board members is that you have to know what is no longer in the law in order to understand what is in the law.

  • There are NO banned ASFs in Massachusetts. There are many that have restrictions on them, but none of them are outright banned. Publishing any such roster would not be keeping with the law that calls for a “banned” roster.
  • The draft prelude to the roster now refers to it as “Prohibited” rather than banned.
  • The draft continually refers to the 1994 date which no longer appears in Massachusetts law as it used to pertain to firearms. (The date still exists for magazines.)
  • The draft treats the 2016 date as if it matters. They believe Chapter 135 “codified” the 2016 Attorney General’s guidance.
Handgun Roster:

The Board is working on a standardized form, potentially an online fill in type, that all the testing labs can use. Currently the labs create their own using the standards they must meet.

There was also a lot of discussion about potentially updating the “functional design equivalent” regulations. This is a path handgun manufacturer can use for models already approved that simply have a different color, grip, etc. While these guns don’t have to go through the rigorous testing, they still have to pay a lab to declare something a functional design equivalent.

There was also discussion surrounding the new Biofire gun that was approved at the March meeting. GOAL had brought several concerns about the testing requirements. Are the current methods of testing suitable for a handgun that has to be powered and will only function on biometrics?

The other glaring issue for the Biofire gun is that each gun is made to order. Unlike traditional handgun models that are, for the most part, manufactured the same in large numbers. So how does the state approve individual models?

Training Mandate:

The Board was informed that the new training requirements should be ready soon. The focus is going to be using the training programs that are already out there (NRA, USCCA, etc.) and just have them add the new requirements. We were told that they would all have to resubmit their course curriculums for approval.

There was also discussion concerning folks who had taken a course after August 1, 2024 but before the new courses were available. Initially the Board was told that before their next license renewal they would have to take some sort of supplemental course to fulfill the new mandates. GOAL suggested that those folks could be grandfathered by guidance or regulation. I was told that the law was very clear. GOAL pointed out that the state either ignores laws or interprets them as it fits their needs every day.

Non-resident Issues:

GOAL asked if the State Police has made any progress in creating a list of states that have “substantially similar” licensing requirements. The absence of this list drastically effects non-residents under Chapter 140, Section 129C (i) & (j).

(i) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor if the nonresident has a permit, card or license issued from their state of residence which has substantially similar requirements to those of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to subsection (l)
(j) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor: (i) to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license or a hunting license or permit lawfully issued from their state of residence, which has substantially similar requirements to those in section 11 of chapter 131, as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to…


The hunting piece of this section is problematic as well. The drafters of Chapter 135 were ignorant of the difference between Massachusetts hunting licenses and the rest of the country. They were basing the language on the standardized Hunter Education nationwide. The problem is that Massachusetts requires anyone over 15 years old that hunts with a firearm to have an FID or LTC.

Handgun Frames:

GOAL inquired about handgun frames. According to the new law, frames (even unfinished) are now a firearm. However, like the long gun context, handgun frames will not be subject to the handgun roster testing requirements. We asked, if that is the case, then can retailers sell any handgun frames they want providing they are not assault style? The answer was yes but it probably doesn’t warrant mention in the guidance letters.

Meeting Venues:

GOAL has asked that future meetings be outside of the Boston area. We suggested using MassWildlife HQ in Westborough as an idea.

New Handguns:

Retay .22 Model: RXP22-BLK-10

Smith & Wesson .380 Model: Bodyguard 2.0

Keltec 9mm Model: P15

Heckler & Koch 9mm Model: VP9F
 
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We asked, if that is the case, then can retailers sell any handgun frames they want providing they are not assault style? The answer was yes but it probably doesn’t warrant mention in the guidance letters.

Well that’s interesting

and of course they won’t want it mentioned in guidance letters
 
FCAB April 2025 Meeting Notes



Long gun testing and roster:

The EOPSS attorney for the FCAB let us know that Secretary Reidy had approved the Board’s recommendation to exclude long guns from the testing requirements previously designed for handguns. The way this was accomplished was by utilizing the opening sentence in the Massachusetts gun law definition section. (Chapter 140, Section 121)

“Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131Y, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meaning”

The determination was that since the testing requirements in the handgun roster section of law would never work, and was not practical for long guns that the context did not apply. In short – there will be no testing requirements or roster for long guns.

Banned Assault Style Firearms Roster:

This continues to be a point of contention between GOAL and the rest of the FCAB members. GOAL reiterated at the April meeting that the draft did not meet the law nor does anything in the draft represent the current law. All we got was: “Noted” The consensus of the rest of the Board members is that you have to know what is no longer in the law in order to understand what is in the law.

  • There are NO banned ASFs in Massachusetts. There are many that have restrictions on them, but none of them are outright banned. Publishing any such roster would not be keeping with the law that calls for a “banned” roster.
  • The draft prelude to the roster now refers to it as “Prohibited” rather than banned.
  • The draft continually refers to the 1994 date which no longer appears in Massachusetts law as it used to pertain to firearms. (The date still exists for magazines.)
  • The draft treats the 2016 date as if it matters. They believe Chapter 135 “codified” the 2016 Attorney General’s guidance.
Handgun Roster:

The Board is working on a standardized form, potentially an online fill in type, that all the testing labs can use. Currently the labs create their own using the standards they must meet.

There was also a lot of discussion about potentially updating the “functional design equivalent” regulations. This is a path handgun manufacturer can use for models already approved that simply have a different color, grip, etc. While these guns don’t have to go through the rigorous testing, they still have to pay a lab to declare something a functional design equivalent.

There was also discussion surrounding the new Biofire gun that was approved at the March meeting. GOAL had brought several concerns about the testing requirements. Are the current methods of testing suitable for a handgun that has to be powered and will only function on biometrics?

The other glaring issue for the Biofire gun is that each gun is made to order. Unlike traditional handgun models that are, for the most part, manufactured the same in large numbers. So how does the state approve individual models?

Training Mandate:

The Board was informed that the new training requirements should be ready soon. The focus is going to be using the training programs that are already out there (NRA, USCCA, etc.) and just have them add the new requirements. We were told that they would all have to resubmit their course curriculums for approval.

There was also discussion concerning folks who had taken a course after August 1, 2024 but before the new courses were available. Initially the Board was told that before their next license renewal they would have to take some sort of supplemental course to fulfill the new mandates. GOAL suggested that those folks could be grandfathered by guidance or regulation. I was told that the law was very clear. GOAL pointed out that the state either ignores laws or interprets them as it fits their needs every day.

Non-resident Issues:

GOAL asked if the State Police has made any progress in creating a list of states that have “substantially similar” licensing requirements. The absence of this list drastically effects non-residents under Chapter 140, Section 129C (i) & (j).

(i) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor if the nonresident has a permit, card or license issued from their state of residence which has substantially similar requirements to those of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to subsection (l)
(j) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor: (i) to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license or a hunting license or permit lawfully issued from their state of residence, which has substantially similar requirements to those in section 11 of chapter 131, as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to…


The hunting piece of this section is problematic as well. The drafters of Chapter 135 were ignorant of the difference between Massachusetts hunting licenses and the rest of the country. They were basing the language on the standardized Hunter Education nationwide. The problem is that Massachusetts requires anyone over 15 years old that hunts with a firearm to have an FID or LTC.

Handgun Frames:

GOAL inquired about handgun frames. According to the new law, frames (even unfinished) are now a firearm. However, like the long gun context, handgun frames will not be subject to the handgun roster testing requirements. We asked, if that is the case, then can retailers sell any handgun frames they want providing they are not assault style? The answer was yes but it probably doesn’t warrant mention in the guidance letters.

Meeting Venues:

GOAL has asked that future meetings be outside of the Boston area. We suggested using MassWildlife HQ in Westborough as an idea.

New Handguns:

Retay .22 Model: RXP22-BLK-10

Smith & Wesson .380 Model: Bodyguard 2.0

Keltec 9mm Model: P15

Heckler & Koch 9mm Model: VP9F
If the new law "codified" the 2016 AG guidance into law, wouldn't that infer that the 2016 guidance wasn't a law at the time it was enacted?
 
GOAL asked if the State Police has made any progress in creating a list of states that have “substantially similar” licensing requirements. The absence of this list drastically effects non-residents under Chapter 140, Section 129C (i) & (j).


(j) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor: (i) to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license

The problem is that Massachusetts requires anyone over 15 years old that hunts with a firearm to have an FID or LTC.
Im going with (J) part A, in the gun law and would get a non resident license if I decided to hunt the shithole. Clearly stated in the law.

Where is the part that requires anyone over 15 years old to have an FID or LTC? Is that resident or both? Is there a cite?

If there is then the law conflicts with itself and Im questioning it because there was NEVER a hunting requirement that non residents had to have a non resident LTC to hunt with a firearm in MA.
 
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Im going with (J) part A, in the gun law and would get a non resident license if I decided to hunt the shithole. Clearly stated in the law.

Where is the part that requires anyone over 15 years old to have an FID or LTC? Is that resident or both? Is there a cite?

If there is then the law conflicts with itself and Im questioning it because there was NEVER a hunting requirement that non residents had to have a non resident LTC to hunt with a firearm in MA.
Near as we can tell the over 15 piece is an interpretation of the FID Card law. If you are under 15 you can't possess a rifle or shotgun without an adult. If you are over 15 you need an FID Card to hunt with your own gun.

Non-residents never needed a gun license to hunt in Mass, but that is only one of the many changes in the new law.
 
Jim,
I think that EVERYONE here is still trying to figure this one out. Can you speak to this point?
I think they've been consistent in maintaining the 7/16 date stands as law relating to " duplicates and copycats" because it was codified in 135. 8/1/24 would simply be the grandfather date for any ASF not considered a duplicate or copycat.
 
I think they've been consistent in maintaining the 7/16 date stands as law relating to " duplicates and copycats" because it was codified in 135. 8/1/24 would simply be the grandfather date for any ASF not considered a duplicate or copycat
So to be clear, the pre 8/1 AR's would still be allright to possess ? (and dont laugh I'm still not clear on it....
 
Allright, open question, so "AR15's" bought b4 8/1 ARE legal to possess?
Or do we need to call the physic hotline?

There is no hotline to answer questions. The law is ambiguous and conflicting and there is no “correct” answer. There is guidance which conflicts with the written law, there is written law which conflicts itself, and there is written law and guidance which conflicts prior law and prior guidance.
 
You first have to decide if you buy into the 2016 date bs or not.
It's ON 8/1 not before.

You're missing the most important aspect about the random 8/1 deadline. It must have been LAWFULLY owned on 8/1.

It is the State's implied position that AR's purchased post Healey legislation-by-press conference are/were NOT "lawfully owned" on 8/1.

What they can/will/plan to do about those AR's is where the rubber meets the road.
 
You're missing the most important aspect about the random 8/1 deadline. It must have been LAWFULLY owned on 8/1.

It is the State's implied position that AR's purchased post Healey legislation-by-press conference are/were NOT "lawfully owned" on 8/1.

What they can/will/plan to do about those AR's is where the rubber meets the road.
exactly, and I don't believe they will even address the point.
 
You're missing the most important aspect about the random 8/1 deadline. It must have been LAWFULLY owned on 8/1.

It is the State's implied position that AR's purchased post Healey legislation-by-press conference are/were NOT "lawfully owned" on 8/1.

What they can/will/plan to do about those AR's is where the rubber meets the road.
"adverb: lawfully 1) In a way that conforms to or is permitted or recognized by the law."

I think we need to remember that Maura said that the meaning of the AW law in effect at the time was incorrect and that she (and only she) had figured out the real meaning of the AW law and that the law really meant that all those previously "MA-compliant" ARs & AKs were, in fact, illegal to possess under the existing AW law.

In other words, she would say she didn't make-up a new law with her press conference. Rather, she feels that she merely gave us the correct meaning of the existing law.

It's a subtle difference, but consider that point when trying to figure out this completely insane anti-constitutional mess.
 
"adverb: lawfully 1) In a way that conforms to or is permitted or recognized by the law."

I think we need to remember that Maura said that the meaning of the AW law in effect at the time was incorrect and that she (and only she) had figured out the real meaning of the AW law and that the law really meant that all those previously "MA-compliant" ARs & AKs were, in fact, illegal to possess under the existing AW law.

In other words, she would say she didn't make-up a new law with her press conference. Rather, she feels that she merely gave us the correct meaning of the existing law.

It's a subtle difference, but consider that point when trying to figure out this completely insane anti-constitutional mess.

But IF she tries to argue that the common interpretation of the law was innacurate she will have to explain why every f*cken "post ban" AR sold since the 1994 Ban was passed were decreed to NOT be "assault weapons" (owing to the lack of evil "features") and 100% allowed by the Federal government to be LAWFULLY sold all across the country.
 
But IF she tries to argue that the common interpretation of the law was inaccurate she will have to explain why every f*cken "post ban" AR sold since the 1994 Ban was passed were decreed to NOT be "assault weapons" (owing to the lack of evil "features") and 100% allowed by the Federal government to be LAWFULLY sold all across the country.
I understand, but that ship has already sailed for us... a long time ago (2016). :(

My post above was just a reminder for those folks trying to figure out Chapter 135 and what the FCAB is putting forth as an implementing document.
 
I understand, but that ship has already sailed for us... a long time ago (2016). :(

My post above was just a reminder for those folks trying to figure out Chapter 135 and what the FCAB is putting forth as an implementing document.
Let them

Jsut another avenue of attack , no “lol 1st amendment” bullshit like back in 2016
 
I guess the prior AG's must of been stupid and got it wrong too.
Everybody got it wrong... in all 50 states... until Maura told us in 2016 what the words taken verbatim from the 1994 Federal AWB really meant. She was right and the rest of the country was wrong all those many years. But remember how fast every anti-2A DimocRAT pol & clergy in Massachusetts jumped on the bandwagon and proclaimed that Maura was right! [puke]
 


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