Filing NFA Trust

expedition03

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Do we have to send copies of the trust to the BATFE if we just created one and assigned a lower to it? If so does it have to be postmarked by July 1st? Or do we get it notarized and all the stuff and send it in when we want to acquire a NFA item.
 
You need to do a bunch of reading on the NFA.

If a trust acquires or makes an NFA item, a copy of the properly signed/notarized/etc. trust must be submitted to the BATFE as part of the transfer/make process. If you wish to follow the existing guidelines regarding a trust acquiring or making an NFA item, the Form 4 (acquire) or Form 1 (make) must be eFiled/postmarked by July 13. After that date, the new guidelines outlined in Section 41 apply. (SPOILER ALERT: They're a PITA compared to the current method)

If you just establish a trust and assign something to it, whether it's a house, or a car, or a non-NFA item, that's no one's business but yours.
 
When you submit the forms to purchase or make a SBR you will submit to trust forms with it. "Assigning a lower" to the trust is meaningless.
 
Do we have to send copies of the trust to the BATFE if we just created one and assigned a lower to it? If so does it have to be postmarked by July 1st? Or do we get it notarized and all the stuff and send it in when we want to acquire a NFA item.

Some say you should put something in your assignment sheet. You'll hear a few different responses as to why,when I formed my NFA trust I just added a $1 bill and wrote down the serial # so my trust was "funded"

July 13th is when the new rules become active I believe
 
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on form 1 do I check off other legal entity that means I wouldn't have to have my CLEO sign off, right? I read a lot and get conflicting and confusing info. thanks.
 
on form 1 do I check off other legal entity that means I wouldn't have to have my CLEO sign off, right? I read a lot and get conflicting and confusing info. thanks.

Yes. For a trust, in Block 2, Application is made by: you should check Corporation or Other Business Entity.

I can't believe you've seen conflicting info on that. A trust is neither an Individual nor a Government Entity, which are your only other two choices.
 
This again?

Assigning the lower to the trust is anything but "meaningless" but thanks for playing. The trust is effective when it is funded by owning property. That lower you are registering is property plain and simple. Furthermore, the lower must be assigned to the trust in order for the trust to be approved as the owner on the form 1.

In order for the trust to own something and be funded, it must be executed. This means signed, witnessed, and notarized. BEFORE you submit anything on July 13th.
 
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Your trust vendor hopefully provided you with basic instructions on execution, funding and submission of a Form 1. If you purchased a trust using NFAPRO then this information was included in your trust package.

Once you've gotten past the execution and funding steps, I would recommend using the following tutorial for a step by step guide to submitting a Form 1 to make an SBR:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/4...l_out_a_Form_1_using_EFORMS__New_Thread_.html
 
I think I used your site Rockmaple NFAPRO.COM, I just wanted to make sure I was correct in what I was doing. I don't want to f it up.

Your trust vendor hopefully provided you with basic instructions on execution, funding and submission of a Form 1. If you purchased a trust using NFAPRO then this information was included in your trust package.

Once you've gotten past the execution and funding steps, I would recommend using the following tutorial for a step by step guide to submitting a Form 1 to make an SBR:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/4...l_out_a_Form_1_using_EFORMS__New_Thread_.html
 
Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but when you execute a trust wouldnt you typically assign all your title I firearms to it? I have an assignment template that lists all my firearms except my lower. When I send in the Form I I'll list just that lower when applying for the tax stamp.
 
Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but when you execute a trust wouldnt you typically assign all your title I firearms to it? I have an assignment template that lists all my firearms except my lower. When I send in the Form I I'll list just that lower when applying for the tax stamp.

It's not obvious at all. Not everyone assigns their Title I firearms to the trust. Some people do. A lot of people keep them separate. It all depends on the individual and their specific situation, and their reasons for establishing a trust.
 
It's not obvious at all. Not everyone assigns their Title I firearms to the trust. Some people do. A lot of people keep them separate. It all depends on the individual and their specific situation, and their reasons for establishing a trust.

Is there some inherent disadvatage to not assigning them that I'm missing? My main reason for creating a trust was to protect my assets; building an SBR was just a matter of the F-its.
 
Furthermore, the lower must be assigned to the trust in order for the trust to be approved as the owner on the form 1.
.

What? I have done several form 1's in my life and I have had a trust for many years never done this nor heard this one before.
 
Is there some inherent disadvatage to not assigning them that I'm missing? My main reason for creating a trust was to protect my assets; building an SBR was just a matter of the F-its.

RockMaple will hopefully chime in here, as he's the actual Legal Eagle, but a trust is essentially an estate-planning tool. From an NFA perspective, it allows multiple users of the item, streamlines the acquisition process (until 41F in Jul), and simplifies the process of passing them on in the eventual death of the Settlor. In what way to you think assigning assets to a trust will protect them? Trusts are not corporations or LLC's.
 
RockMaple will hopefully chime in here, as he's the actual Legal Eagle, but a trust is essentially an estate-planning tool. From an NFA perspective, it allows multiple users of the item, streamlines the acquisition process (until 41F in Jul), and simplifies the process of passing them on in the eventual death of the Settlor. In what way to you think assigning assets to a trust will protect them? Trusts are not corporations or LLC's.

Just what you said. My initial interest was to use it as part of an estate plan. If I die prematurely I want the process of my beneficiary getting my firearms (or their value) to be as painless as possible. The streamlining of the SBR process is an added bonus.
 
What? I have done several form 1's in my life and I have had a trust for many years never done this nor heard this one before.


So you do form 1's for lowers that are not assigned to your trust? Seriously? Your trust does not own the lowers that you file form 1's for using that trust on the form 1? Or do you lie on the form 1 and state that the trust owns the lower even though it in fact does not?
 
I think I used your site Rockmaple NFAPRO.COM, I just wanted to make sure I was correct in what I was doing. I don't want to f it up.

The execution instructions and user guide provides all of the essential information, but you may send me a PM if you have specific questions.

Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but when you execute a trust wouldnt you typically assign all your title I firearms to it? I have an assignment template that lists all my firearms except my lower. When I send in the Form I I'll list just that lower when applying for the tax stamp.

I'd say 50% or less of my clients assign all their firearms to the trust. It all depends on your situation and goals. If you have a will, the benefit of assigning Title I firearms to the trust is diminished, since your firearms will already pass according to your will.

RockMaple will hopefully chime in here, as he's the actual Legal Eagle, but a trust is essentially an estate-planning tool. From an NFA perspective, it allows multiple users of the item, streamlines the acquisition process (until 41F in Jul), and simplifies the process of passing them on in the eventual death of the Settlor. In what way to you think assigning assets to a trust will protect them? Trusts are not corporations or LLC's.

Thanks for praise, Scott. You're spot on with this one, as usual. Using a living revocable trust (which virtually all NFA trusts are) doesn't really provide much in the way of asset protection. For that, you'd need to form an entity or form a more complicated "irrevocable" trust.

So you do form 1's for lowers that are not assigned to your trust? Seriously? Your trust does not own the lowers that you file form 1's for using that trust on the form 1? Or do you lie on the form 1 and state that the trust owns the lower even though it in fact does not?

Yes, you should always assign/donate a lower to the trust before submitting a Form 1 for the reasons stated above. However, I have seen an application approved in the absence of an assignment (for a client that asked me to amend his NFA trust). Arguably the failure to formally assign/donate a lower to the trust is simply a record-keeping/documentation issue, as the act of submission of the Form 1 can be viewed as proof of the settlor's intent to make the donation. But to be entirely clear, it's best to include the assignment page or schedule of assets, as applicable.
 
Is the e-file registration down? Earlier today I filled out the e-forms registration info at atfonline.gov but never received the confirmation email.
 
I can't even get that far. I wrote down the User ID that it generated along with the password I setup; when I didn't receive a confirmation email I tried them in the log-in screen - didn't work and I don't want to get locked out. I suppose it's possible I mistyped my email twice...or could it be due to too many last-minute a-holes like myself on the server?
 
I can't even imagine the volume that system is dealing with four days before 41f. The eForms system sucks on a normal day let alone what it's dealing with now. To register literally two business days before the deadline and expect to get a form in is optimistic at best. Good luck.
 
I can't even imagine the volume that system is dealing with four days before 41f. The eForms system sucks on a normal day let alone what it's dealing with now. To register literally two business days before the deadline and expect to get a form in is optimistic at best. Good luck.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm out of town until tomorrow, if I don't get confirmation by then I'll go the snail mail route.
 
Tried password reset and registering again, no luck. I think the system is getting overwhelmed by last minute filing. Made a paper scan of the trust and printed a form 1 - if anyone has a good resource for paper filing instructions or general advice it would be appreciated.
 
Tried password reset and registering again, no luck. I think the system is getting overwhelmed by last minute filing. Made a paper scan of the trust and printed a form 1 - if anyone has a good resource for paper filing instructions or general advice it would be appreciated.


Here's a pretty good link, with addresses, links to the Form, and an example to follow.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1

Good luck.
 
Here's a pretty good link, with addresses, links to the Form, and an example to follow.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1

Good luck.

That's the one I found as well.

I think I have it filled out properly. For "name and location of original manufacturer (receiver)" is the correct nomenclature "Anderson Manufacturing" or "Anderson Manufacturing, Hebron, KY"?

- - - Updated - - -

I just now filed a form 1 on the eforms site, took me 5 minutes had no problems with the website.

cool. But did you already have an e-file user/password setup? I'm actually wondering if they shut it down to new e-file users...
 
I sent out my forms late last week and I just realized that a couple pages on the scanned trust were stuck together and didn't scan! So, here I am sending the email to cancel my stamps and refund while resending everything again. Dot your t's and cross your i's before hitting "Send" is the lesson here.
 
I'm in! Requested "forgot user name" and then "forgot password". ..

Now I can legally register a firearm before they make it more difficult to legally register a firearm. I feel safer already.
 
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