FL Store managers draw down on gunman

[News Shooter]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/04/29/0429groceryguns.html

By SONJA ISGER

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, April 29, 2008

WEST PALM BEACH — It could've been a typical spat between grocery store customer and manager, with the customer announcing he planned to take his business elsewhere. But then the customer drew his gun. The store manager drew his and so did the assistant manager.

It all happened at 5 p.m. Monday at the IGA Supermarket at 1000 36th St. in West Palm Beach. And in the end, West Palm Beach police arrested customer Marshall Hugo Grant for attempted first degree murder, shooting into an occupied dwelling, aggravated assault with a firearm and carrying a concealed firearm.

Police reported Tuesday morning that Grant, 73, entered the store through the exit despite manager Marino Hernandez's warning not to enter that way. The confrontation escalated, Grant drew a handgun, assistant manager Roberto Espinal drew his handgun. Hernandez also pulled a gun. Grant backed out of the store firing three times as he went, the arrest report states.

The managers, who witnesses said never returned fire, ended up surrounding Grant, who hid behind a vehicle while continuing to fire, police report. Grant eventually surrendered his weapon to the managers once they told him police were on their way.

Grant appeared Friday morning before Judge Nancy Perez, who ordered him held without bond while he undergoes a psychiatric examination.

 

[Chuck]

Anyone here want to give someone 3 shots and still not return fire?!

 

[Fsorrent]

Some one pulls a gun on me gets 3 shots period.

 

[jdubois]

This is why we need gun control! When not only the bad guys have guns, it gets so confusing. Were the guns good or bad in this situation? It's almost makes it seem like the guns aren't the source of good or bad.

 

[Fsorrent]

Clearly those crazed gunmen who owned the store escalated the situation. They should of used the tactic used in modern colleges called lay and pray

 

[Raoul Duke]

Actually, I wonder if it says more about the way the situation "felt" than it does about the way it's described?

Consider, three shots permitted without return fire suggests the managers either A: didn't feel life and limb was threatened or B: couldn't get a clear shot. Since they cornered Mr. Grant outside I'd rule out "fear" and "lack of a clear shot," given the time and proximity involved.

Perhaps they had reason to withhold fire is all I'm saying. Perhaps the gunman seemed incapable of clear through (above and beyond his gun wielding nuttiness) and these two made (correct?) snap judgments about Mr. Grant's state of mind. Perhaps the shooting might have been legally OK, yet morally unacceptable to the managers for any number of reasons.

My gut tells me that, like most of you, I would've returned fire. I'm curious why they didn't?

Or perhaps they're just pussies. (Kidding, really.)

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

"Be sure of your target and what's beyond."

If this guy was backing out of the store as he was firing, there's a good chance that behind him was a parking lot and active pedestrian/vehicle traffic. The story doesn't say. But anyone who says "I'd have returned fire automatically." needs a refresher course.

If there were innocents in the immediate area, these store managers should be praised for their restraint. I'm more than willing to give them the benefit oft he doubt. Bad guy in custody. No innocents hurt. I'd say they handled it quite well.

 

[CRSIII]

"Be sure of your target and what's beyond."

If this guy was backing out of the store as he was firing, there's a good chance that behind him was a parking lot and active pedestrian/vehicle traffic. The story doesn't say. But anyone who says "I'd have returned fire automatically." needs a refresher course.
If there were innocents in the immediate area, these store managers should be praised for their restraint. I'm more than willing to give them the benefit oft he doubt. Bad guy in custody. No innocents hurt. I'd say they handled it quite well.

+1.

 

[clinotus]

The shooter was 73 years of age, may have been angst filled and disorientated. Being asked to leave a store as you walked into the wrong entrance is something a gang banger (idiot) would do...or a senile old man.

I imagine the conversation went like this:

Old Man: I'd like to return this tomato, the skin is bruised and it ails me.

Clerk: HHAHAHAH

Old Man: Seriously, the skin on this fruit makes it unappetizing. I have my receipt and 3 pennies so you can round my refund up to a quarter.

Manager: Sir we cant take back fruit and you’ll need to leave.

Old Man: WHAT??? I have a receipt and the needed change young man!!!! I am not eating this fruit! draws weapon.

 

[CRSIII]

The shooter was 73 years of age, may have been angst filled and disorientated. Being asked to leave a store as you walked into the wrong entrance is something a gang banger (idiot) would do...or a senile old man.

I imagine the conversation went like this:

Old Man: I'd like to return this tomato, the skin is bruised and it ails me.

Clerk: HHAHAHAH

Old Man: Seriously, the skin on this fruit makes it unappetizing. I have my receipt and 3 pennies so you can round my refund up to a quarter.

Manager: Sir we cant take back fruit and you’ll need to leave.

Old Man: WHAT??? I have a receipt and the needed change young man!!!! I am not eating this fruit! draws weapon.

Agian, there's somthing about your avatar that makes your posts like this one extra interesting Its like its happening to him.

 

[dwarven1]

My gut tells me that, like most of you, I would've returned fire. I'm curious why they didn't?

Or perhaps they're just pussies. (Kidding, really.)

Maybe the old guy was doing a Hawkeye Pierce, firing into the ceiling or something similar to LOOK intimidating. *shrug* Keep watching the news; the liberal press will be sure to plaster it all over the place.

 

[P-14]

Clearly those crazed gunmen who owned the store escalated the situation. They should of used the tactic used in modern colleges called lay and pray

I remember moonbat after moonbat saying, "It'll be the Wild West with everybody shooting."

Well, what happened here? Store managers did not return fire (and I agree with NoLookingBackwards as to why) and the situation was resolved without injuries. The managers were lucky not to be hurt and had the presence-of-mind not to return fire.

My thoughts only.

Bob

 

[gene]

Did the guy leave by the EXIT?