Flobert Restoration (lots of pics)

[jbos6]

So, I have Flobert in my possession that I have decided to clean up. It spent many years in a barn in New England weather, and so was a bit rusty and dirty. The firing mechanism still works, the stock is still intact. At the least, it's just to be a wallhanger. If I can get it cleaned up enough to attempt to fire, that would be pretty special ... this has been in my family for generations.

We started with this:

Hammer and breech assembly:

Down the sights:

With recommendations, I broke out the 000 steel wool, M7 Gun Cleaner and M7 Gun Oil. I was able to remove the barrel & firing assembly (they're attached, albeit loosely), the trigger guard, and the stock. I cleaned out some of the dust and gunk from the stock, and put a liberal amount of M7 oil in the hammer/trigger assembly. Sprayed down the barrel and trigger guard and started scrubbing. I removed a goodly amount of rust and dirt, and discovered a few stamps/markings.

First marking ... it's the oval in the middle of this picture. It's sideways in this view, but it's an F at the top of the oval, an I or an L on the left, a G on the righ, and a star at the bottom.

Reverse side of the hammer/trigger assembly:

Marking inside the stock (beneath the barrel) ... no idea what this says:

Behind the trigger, there's a large "X":

There's a "38" stamped here on the barrel ...

... and here just in front of the trigger spring.

There's also a couple of markings on the underside of the barrel.

If anyone has ANY insight into this piece or any of the markings, I'd greatly appreciate it!! Also, I'd love any recommendations on (a) cleaning the barrel (I'm thinking just a normal bore cleaner and lots of scrubbing), and (b) recommendations on restoring the stock. I took the steel wool to some of the gnarlier sections and while that did clean it, it also obviously took a bit of the shine. What should I / can I use in terms of stains or protectants? Any suggestions on cleaning up the engraving work?

 

[Sprocket]

For the wood use Murphy's Oil Soap and some toothbrushes and other small brushes - keep washing until it runs off clean.

Next let it dry a day or two to let the water out

I use lemon oil on my sxs and reapply as needed.

Some use tung oil and some use tung & spar varnish (which is mostly tung oil so you basically end up with 75% tung oil with 25% varnish). This allows you to reapply less often and still retains a hand rubbed finish that's durable

Awesome project - thanks for sharing

 

[jbos6]

Thanks very much for the advice, I greatly appreciate it!!

Does anyone have suggestions on where I can go to figure out the markings? I'd love to know more about the piece!!!

 

[buspete]

Liege proofmark

The letters in a circle with a tower is the Liege (Belgium) proofmark.

The other characters, the X, the 38, and the hashmarks in the barrel channel are all assembly marks. When the gun was built, it was first assembled and fitted, then reassembled for metal finishing. The assembly marks assure that the correct parts go back together as the same gun.

I always like Floberts, but ammo is just not around. What we did with one of those is bore out the barrel and line it with a .22 cal barrel liner so now it is is a single shot .22 instead of the 9mm rimfire that it was originally.

Mine was in worse shape than yours, with a missing triggerguard and the spur broken off the hammer. I think we rebuild stuff like this just to see if it can be done.

 

[jbos6]

UPDATE:

Alright, I finally got some refinishing supplies and started in last night. I've put some elbow grease, M7 and steel wool into the barrel and knocked most of the rust off (still have some fine areas to do). I also drenched the firing assembly in M7, and it's looking like this now:




I got brave and disassembled the whole firing assembly. Soaked the small parts in M7 (will do again and hit them with some steel wool).





Sanded down the smooth parts of the stock to take most of the finish off, and that worked well. Haven't finished the corners and detaily areas yet.





I also got some gel stripper and applied it to this checkering overnight, wrapped it in plastic, we'll see how it comes out ... this is going to be the toughest part of the stripping, I'm sure!





Gonna put some more time into it tonight ... will post more photos of my progress!!

 

[jbos6]

Finished stripping the buttstock yesterday. Some areas of the wood are a littler darker than others, but I'm okay with the variations. Here's the buttstock both stripped and with the first coat of tung oil.





The gel stripper did a pretty good job of cleaning out the checkering, though it took some time with a metal brush (and left the wood around it a little bit darkened.




Finally, I had noticed that the trigger/hammer were a bit squirrely after I had initially cleaned them. By that, I mean that if the hammer is cocked and you press forward on it, it will frequently let go and come forward. Once I disassembled everything, I noticed that the notch on the front of the trigger where the hammer catches was well-worn (so this was apparently used quite a bit). Anyone have any thoughts on how I could reinforce this notch?

 

[ARV]

My best guess on the hammer would be to take that and the hammer, and a fine file and re-cut and square everything up so it fits together right. Just a little at a time, and as little as possible, then carefully harden with a torch.

I bet some work with Lin-Speed oil would look nice on that stock. Bring out the grain and make it shine.

 

[jbos6]

My best guess on the hammer would be to take that and the hammer, and a fine file and re-cut and square everything up so it fits together right. Just a little at a time, and as little as possible, then carefully harden with a torch.

I bet some work with Lin-Speed oil would look nice on that stock. Bring out the grain and make it shine.

Hmmm ... I'll have to take a much closer look at the fit of the hammer and trigger assembly once I've got them all cleaned up. (I'm thinking about using some Birchwood-Casey Blue Remover and then rebluing everything.) Once everything's finished up, I'll see how the two fit and if there's any room to reprofile that part of the trigger.

As for Lin-Speed ... I've already started treating the stock with Tung Oil (made the mistake of using low-gloss and it's really dull, probably going to pick up high-gloss and do a couple coats in that). Could I use Lin-Speed on top, or would I need to restrip the whole thing and start over?

 

[jbos6]

Just for a side-by-side comparison, this is how the stock looked originally, how it looked stripped, and how it looked after a couple coats of Tung Oil.

 

[ARV]

Hmmm ... I'll have to take a much closer look at the fit of the hammer and trigger assembly once I've got them all cleaned up. (I'm thinking about using some Birchwood-Casey Blue Remover and then rebluing everything.) Once everything's finished up, I'll see how the two fit and if there's any room to reprofile that part of the trigger.

As for Lin-Speed ... I've already started treating the stock with Tung Oil (made the mistake of using low-gloss and it's really dull, probably going to pick up high-gloss and do a couple coats in that). Could I use Lin-Speed on top, or would I need to restrip the whole thing and start over?

Honestly, I'm not sure. Their site says that it "Will generally work fine when finishing over other oil type finishes"

http://www.lin-speed.com/content/Instructions.htm

 

[jbos6]

Man, I shouldve been able to answer *that* question with just a wee big of digging. LOL. Thanks for doing that bit of research for me, ARV!!

 

[ARV]

no problem. I know my grandfather has used it on some old guns in the past, and was pleased with the results. I guess its designed to dry faster than regular boiled linseed oil. Google search shows some nice results.

 

[ARV]

no problem. I know my grandfather has used it on some old guns in the past, and was pleased with the results. I guess its designed to dry faster than regular boiled linseed oil. Google search shows some nice results.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/ig/Home-Gun-Stock-Refinishing/Gun-Stock-Refinish-26.htm

(too lazy to force the picture to work)

 

[Business]

Finished stripping the buttstock yesterday. Some areas of the wood are a littler darker than others, but I'm okay with the variations. Here's the buttstock both stripped and with the first coat of tung oil.

View attachment 29487
View attachment 29486


The gel stripper did a pretty good job of cleaning out the checkering, though it took some time with a metal brush (and left the wood around it a little bit darkened.
View attachment 29489
View attachment 29488


Finally, I had noticed that the trigger/hammer were a bit squirrely after I had initially cleaned them. By that, I mean that if the hammer is cocked and you press forward on it, it will frequently let go and come forward. Once I disassembled everything, I noticed that the notch on the front of the trigger where the hammer catches was well-worn (so this was apparently used quite a bit). Anyone have any thoughts on how I could reinforce this notch?

View attachment 29485

wow whatever gel you used on the stock worked great

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

yea, what gel did you use?

 

[jbos6]

I sanded down the easy parts (handguard and butt end), but I used Citristrip Stripping Gel (~$10 at Lowe's) on the checkering. I wouldn't recommend doing it the way I did it and let it sit overnight (although the instructions did say it was allowable), I think it darkened the wood a little bit. However, given how well it worked, using the gel plus a metal brush would probably have worked even better.

ARV, I *really* like how the LinSpeed treatment looks. The tung oil looks nice, but there's hardly any shine to it at all. (Yes, I did go for low-gloss vs. high-gloss, but given JUST how low-gloss this is, I dunno how shiny high-gloss would have been!!) I'm definitely going to go for a few treatments of LinSpeed or similar to bring it to a shine. Now, to get the damn barrel cleaned!!

 

[jbos6]

Okay, the barrel is finished! I did three coats of Minwax to give it a shine, and I love how it looks! I've also continued work on sanding the barrel. I haven't decided if I'm going to leave it bare metal or do a cold bluing. Recommendations? I'm including pics of a couple of the markings on the barrel for anyone interested, as well as the bore ... which looks *surprisingly* shiny to me!!! I need to get a small rifle cleaning rod to clean that out, and I might get the stones to try firing it (for purely sentimental reasons!)

Finished stock



Barrel markings




Bore

 

[namedpipes]

Your project is looking great. Given the age of the rifle, you should think about blueing it the old fashioned way.

Look for "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R. H. Angier

 

[jbos6]

Your project is looking great. Given the age of the rifle, you should think about blueing it the old fashioned way.

Look for "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R. H. Angier

Thanks, namedpipes! Man, $50 for that book new ... anyone have a copy I can borrow?? :-D Also, there are still dark spots that I can't sand or polisy clean ... should I blue over this or use a bluing remover to get it *completely* clean?

(I do appreciate people not piling on me for refinishing this in the first place. It was pretty ugly in the condition it was in, and as I am the only "gun person" in my family, really meant a lot to me.)

 

[ARV]

What caliber is it?

WRT the spots you cant clean fully, I would blue over them. I wouldn't necessarily strip it completely. The stock has some dark spots & lines on it from what I can see in the picture. Its an old gun, but its going to look great when your done with it, let the barrel keep a little of its hard earned "character"

 

[jbos6]

ARV,

From all of the research I've done, it appears to be a 6mm. From what I gather, 6mm and .22 are the same *diameter*, so if I put a .22 round in the barrel to check fit, would that tell me if it's a 6mm? (I will *of course* not be firing my .22 rounds through it, just doing it to check!!)

Good point on the barrel, as well. Probably going to order a bluing kit shortly, and if it goes badly, just strip it down again and try something else!

ONE minor problem I'm facing. There's a screw that goes in under the handguard and threads into the underside of the barrel. Unfortunately, the three threads that bite into the barrel are completely stripped and won't hold the barrel ... if you turn the gun upside down, the barrel separates from the handguard. When I look at the threads, they are basically flattened. Any recommendations on a solution, or should I just bring the screw to a hardware store and find a modern replacement?

 

[namedpipes]

ARV,

From all of the research I've done, it appears to be a 6mm. From what I gather, 6mm and .22 are the same *diameter*, so if I put a .22 round in the barrel to check fit, would that tell me if it's a 6mm? (I will *of course* not be firing my .22 rounds through it, just doing it to check!!) ...

I have a side-by-side double barreled Flobert with one barrel in 6mm and the other in 9mm. I've been told that I can shoot a .22 short through the 6mm barrel, but I've got no plans to try this. If you can locate the proper ammo for it, use that.

 

[ARV]

ARV,

From all of the research I've done, it appears to be a 6mm. From what I gather, 6mm and .22 are the same *diameter*, so if I put a .22 round in the barrel to check fit, would that tell me if it's a 6mm? (I will *of course* not be firing my .22 rounds through it, just doing it to check!!)

Good point on the barrel, as well. Probably going to order a bluing kit shortly, and if it goes badly, just strip it down again and try something else!

ONE minor problem I'm facing. There's a screw that goes in under the handguard and threads into the underside of the barrel. Unfortunately, the three threads that bite into the barrel are completely stripped and won't hold the barrel ... if you turn the gun upside down, the barrel separates from the handguard. When I look at the threads, they are basically flattened. Any recommendations on a solution, or should I just bring the screw to a hardware store and find a modern replacement?

Might be able to do a chamber cast on it, and get a little of the rifling as well, then measure that.

As to the screw, I'm not sure. Maybe carefully run a tap in to clean up the threads, and wrap a little Teflon tape around the screw? Other than that, you might be stuck getting a modern replacement for it. If the screw is still in good condition, you could also possibly fill in the hole and re-drill/tap it. Something as simple as filling the hole with JB weld might work for that. All depends on how much you want to do, and how original you want to try and keep it I guess.

Quick search says that .22 is 5.6mm. Not sure if one of those would handle smokeless? Maybe a CB cap or some other primer-only .22. If you really wanted to be able to shoot it a fair amount, and seeing as your doing a restoration anyway, you might be able to have it sleeved for .22 short if it can handle the pressure. (its been a long time since I've looked at one of those) If so, I can ask my grandfather who he uses. I've seen some of his work, on a shot out sharps and Winchester I think. Without a very strong magnifying glass and a good light, its impossible to tell where the sleeve starts and barrel ends. IIRC it wasn't too expensive either.

Although, a Google search turns up 6mm Flobert ammo.

ETA: more stuff.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158132

 

[jbos6]

Places like CheaperThanDirt have ammo that purports to be 22/6mm Flobert rounds:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/30301800-1.html

Worth a shot (no pun intended), I suppose, unless I decide to go the rebarreling route. ARV, if you wouldn't mind asking your grandfather who did the rebarreling, I'd appreciate it!

 

[Rancho]

awesome, Jbos just awesome!! I love doing restoration projects on the old beauties!

 

[ARV]

I'll send an email right now and ask.

Craig Rittenhouse.

He did say for a Flobert it might not be worth the cost, but did say that if you bought the liner and chamber reamer from someplace like Brownells, it shouldn't be too hard to do yourself and would cost less. I guess most places use epoxy rather than solder for liners now, at least in .22.