Folding stock, pistol grip question

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I know this has been asked and I did search, but I'm still confused as it seems to me that I've read two different answers. Can a MA resident have a 12g pump with a folding stock and pistol grip? Just one of the two? or is that just for autoloaders or rifles?

Thanks
 
yes

yuo can trick out a pump shotgun with all the bells and whistles as long as the barrel is over 18".[smile]
 
yuo can trick out a pump shotgun with all the bells and whistles as long as the barrel is over 18".[smile]

There's one little exception to that that I recently became aware of myself... is that it's illegal for an FFL to sell a shotgun with a pistol grip (and no stock), to anyone under the age of 21...

i.Shotgunsl. with pistol grips attached
In the last ATF Newsletter (August 1998) an
article stated shotguns with pistol grips and no
shoulder stocks attached were restricted to
persons 21 years of age or older if being sold by a
Federal firearms licensee. This requirement is
specified in 27 CFR § 178.99(b) and 18 U.S.C.
922(b)(1) (www.atf.treas.gov/core/regulations/
27cfr178.html), which states that if the firearm to
be transferred is is other than a rifle or shotgunl

then the purchaser must be 21 years of age. The
definition of a shotgun under the GCA [18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5)] is a weapon ieintended to be fired
from the shoulder.ld With the pistol grip in lieu of
the shoulder stock, this weapon is not designed to
be fired from the shoulder, and therefore is not a
shotgun.
Questions have been raised about those firearms
that are supplied with both a pistol grip and a
shoulder stock. If the firearm is sold with the
shoulder stock then the firearm is intended to be
fired from the shoulder and would be considered a
shotgun. The shoulder stock does not necessarily
have to be attached at the time. Persons 18 years
of age or older may purchase those firearms from
licensees.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in
the licensee™s required records as to firearm
i.typelI if not shotgun. These entries may indicate
the firearm type simply as Title I.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl0299.pdf (PDF File)

AGE RESTRICTION REMINDER
Licensees are reminded that certain commercially
produced “shotguns” do not fall within the
definition of shotgun under the GCA. Firearms
such as the Mossberg Model 500 Camper,
Persuader 500 and all other makes and models,
which come equipped with a pistol grip in place
of the butt stock, are not shotguns under the GCA.
Therefore, they cannot be sold or delivered by a
licensee to any person less than 21 years of age.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl0898.pdf (PDF File)
 
If PG-only shotguns aren't shotguns, then what are they? Do they
transfer them as handguns? [laugh]

-Mike
 
Guess so?

And so would a pistol gripped, forward vertical handgrip shotgun be a AOW?

I have no clue as the thought of buying a pistol gripped shotgun has never even entered my mind.
 
If PG-only shotguns aren't shotguns, then what are they? Do they
transfer them as handguns? [laugh]

I wouldn't laugh... this is an agency that considers hooking-up a shoestring to a semi-auto an NFA violation and shooting flaming tennis ball out of a spud gun a destructive device... [thinking]

-Mike


Gun dealer to plead in Trolley Square gun case
By Geoffrey Fattah
Deseret Morning News
Published: November 20, 2007
The West Valley gun dealer accused of selling the shotgun used in the Trolley Square massacre has reached a plea agreement with federal prosecutors.

Court documents filed Monday show that 39-year-old Westley Wayne Hill has requested a change of plea hearing on Nov. 26.

Hill is accused of selling a Maverick Arms Model 88 12-gauge shotgun to then 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic on Nov. 13, 2006. On Feb. 12, 2007, Talovic walked into the Trolley Square mall, armed with the shotgun and a handgun, and killed five people and wounded four others before perishing in a shootout with police.

News of the pending agreement comes after a federal judge was considering whether to throw out the charge against Hill. Through his attorney, Hill claims the charge of selling a firearm to an unauthorized person should be dropped because federal gun laws are too vague.

Federal prosecutors had argued that because the shotgun was equipped with a pistol grip, it made it illegal for Hill to sell the shotgun to anyone under 21.

Hill was scheduled to stand trial on Nov. 26.

If Hill pleads guilty to a reduced charge, he will be the last to do so of the four men charged with selling firearms to Talovic.

Three men, Mackenzie Hunter, Brenden Taylor Brown and Matthew Hautala, were charged with selling a .38 special handgun to Talovic for $800. All three men have pleaded guilty as part of their own plea agreements. Brown and Hautala were both sentenced to one year probation. Hunter is scheduled to be sentenced Jan. 14.

Federal prosecutors say the handgun came from a young Idaho man, who stole the gun from his father to trade for drugs.

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/0,5223,695229385,00.html
 
What are the restrictions on a semi auto shotgun. I understand the federal barrel length requirement. If I have a pistol grip what is the capacity limit?
 
What are the restrictions on a semi auto shotgun.

no more than one of the following:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; or
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
 
Does a dowel type block in a magazine count to lower the capacity from 6 to 5. My Mossburg 500 came with a wooden dowel installed to limit the capacity to 2 rounds. Could I install a similar dowel restriction to lower the capacity from 6 to 5 rounds. Again thank you for all your help here I was not familiar with the restrictions on semi auto shotguns.
 
Does a dowel type block in a magazine count to lower the capacity from 6 to 5. My Mossburg 500 came with a wooden dowel installed to limit the capacity to 2 rounds. Could I install a similar dowel restriction to lower the capacity from 6 to 5 rounds. Again thank you for all your help here I was not familiar with the restrictions on semi auto shotguns.

I would be skeptical of that, since the dowel is not permanent.
 
no more than one of the following:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; or
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.


So essentially a pistol grip conversion of a Saiga 12 is illegal in MA based on the fact that it (would) have a pistol grip and detachable magazine?

Additionally, would a person be non-compliant with an unconverted Saiga WITH a 10 round magazine? Thanks
 
Apparently so on the first point.

On the second point, no, that would be fine because the magazine isn't fixed.
 
Hmm, could jdubois be wrong about the one vs two evil features?

Always a possibility [smile]

What I was referencing was 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30), which is the definition of an assault weapon to which C 140 S 121 defers. What it says exactly is:

18 USC 921(a)(30) said:
The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means -

[...]

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of –
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

So, unless he knows something I don't, I believe Scrivener's statement in the other thread that, "you need two 'evil' features, plus the base criteria of autoloader w/detachable mags" is incorrect. It should have read, "you need two 'evil' features, plus the base criteria of autoloader"

C 140 S 121 has an additional exemption, however:

MGL C 140 S 121 said:
Provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include:

[...]

(vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that can not hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine

So if it holds five rounds or less, either detachable or not, and regardless of the other evil features it has, it seems it is not an assault weapon.
 
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You can buy an AOW shotgun in mass w/ just a LTC (no green card), just need to get the sign off.

And I was told by several dealers (a long time ago) that pistol grip shotguns moss crusier etc, in this state fell under pistol permit, not standard FID.. If that helps at all..
 
And I was told by several dealers (a long time ago) that pistol grip shotguns moss crusier etc, in this state fell under pistol permit, not standard FID.. If that helps at all..

They fall under the definition of a 'firearm' (which is usually thought of as synonymous with 'handgun') not if they have a pistol grip, but rather if they have a barrel shorter than 18 inches. This is only true, however, if they were manufactured with a short barrel. Otherwise they fall under the definition of a 'sawed-off shotgun', a.k.a. 'puppy killer'.
 
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