FOPA - transporting through Mass

[scubadive.ri]

I live in RI and will be going to my Brother-in-law's vacation place in Canterburry, NH for a weekend. I live on the RI \ Mass border and often drive through Mass to get to my RI range. I should be covered by FOPA. I keep the pistol unloaded and the pistol and Amo locked in different compartments of my range bag in the back of my Jeep.

I am mixing questions that apply to federal and state laws.

1. If I go in a pickup truck can the bag be in the cab?

2. In Mass do the gun laws apply to pellet guns? Can I transport I pellet gun through mass unlocked in the vehicle or does it need to be locked in a case.

I found this entry on Safe passage.

One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s

compartment, in a locked container. [7]

 

[Mike_]

I should be covered by FOPA. I keep the pistol unloaded and the pistol and Amo locked in different compartments of my range bag in the back of my Jeep.

I am mixing questions that apply to federal and state laws.

1. If I go in a pickup truck can the bag be in the cab?

2. In Mass do the gun laws apply to pellet guns? Can I transport I pellet gun through mass unlocked in the vehicle or does it need to be locked in a case.

Sounds like you're covered with what you have been doing.

As far as the truck someone smarter than me should come along shortly, maybe the solution is more locks ?

The air gun should not be a problem. No FID required to own in MA.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, the way I read it, you are NOT in compliance with FOPA, so have no protection. Sorry.

Read FOPA VERY CAREFULLY, it requires ammo in separate LOCKED CASE (something that MGL does not actually require). Separate compartments in the same bag is not the same thing and MSP would probably choose to prosecute.

 

[Metalhead]

Suitcase with a lock. Want to open it? Get a warrant. Screw you MA LE.

 

[dhuze]

Whenever I drive through Mass I add a trigger lock and I put the guns out of sight. Just in case. You are allowed to go to ranges and pass through Mass with firearms, but the police don't think so and I'm sure neither does Marsha. Better safe than sorry. Plus if you aren't breaking any laws you won't be stopped and checked out. You will only be in Mass for an hour or so, so you shouldn't need to stop anyplace.

 

[Mike_]

My bad - I read that as separately locked. Each item has to have a locked case as LenS said. Would the whole thing have to be locked up together on top of all of that if it's in a truck cab. Big locked something - with ammo in a smaller (locked container) and gun in another smaller (locked container)?

 

[Kevlar]

...Read FOPA VERY CAREFULLY, it requires ammo in separate LOCKED CASE...

Cite, please.

FOPA (18 USC 926A) does not appear to require ammunition be locked in a separate container...

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

...and a cursory search failed to reveal any case law in support of such an interpretation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Kevlar, you are right.

I know I have read what I wrote in numerous places. Now I wonder if it is an interpretation or a CFR associated with the USC. Further investigation is needed here.

27 CFR 478.38 seems to be the companion CFR and it parrots the words in 19 USC 926A.

So, I stand corrected (+1 rep), thank you.

I will note that it is still advisable to have them in separate containers for Interstate travel, as some states define "loaded" as having ammo or loaded mag in same container as firearm and it's not worth a fight over that issue for the cost of a second locked container (toolbox will do nicely here).

 

[jasons]

Whenever I drive through Mass I add a trigger lock.....

While it can't hurt, legally speaking the trigger lock does nothing for you while transporting here. (Or under FOPA for that matter.)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Suitcase with a lock. Want to open it? Get a warrant. Screw you MA LE.

Getting a warrant will not be a problem as long as the officer sees ANY evidence of guns (gun magazine, target, 5-11 clothing, etc.) and states that "in his experience, such materials are frequently accompanied with firearms". Judges will frequently not look at nuances of the law, and will accept the police assertion that what is being sought is illegal. Remember, your attorney will not be present at the warrant hearing to explan "Your honor, the action the officer suspect my client of is not illegal as the officer claims, and here is the reason why."

Don't expect a judge to respond to the officer with "Sir, as described by you, the gun, if present, would be legal under FOPA86 and you are applying for permission to search for something that is lawful".

Consider it the legal system's equivalent of "kill em all, let god sort em out".

The two things anyone using FOPA86 should do is make sure they comply with the specific storage requirements, and get lost in a crowd of one. Yes, that means removing the NRA sticker off your car before driving through enemy territory.

 

[Terminator03]

Interesting thread. It just goes to show how convoluted this rules/laws really are when someone like Len, who lives this stuff can even get something like this confused. Further proof also that the police themselves most likely will not know the exact interpretation either, so they will most likely jamb you up, and let the court figure it out.

This thread has reminded me of a FOPA question that I have never seen addressed before. Does it cover you in the case of your trip being a round trip? For example, a MA resident traveling to NH (without a NR permit), then back to MA either the same day, or next day?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, I never claimed to be perfect (but I do try to give correct info and willingly take corrections) and yes, the laws are so convoluted that it is very easy to get tripped up. However, better to be "tripped up" with a more conservative reading of the law than a more liberal interpretation. Some states consider a loaded mag == loaded gun, and I'm betting that was where I got my mis-interpreted info from. [I will still advise people that it is best to lock the ammo up in a separate container for FOPA as a more conservative approach but will state it as "opinion" and not law.]

I "live" here on NES so that I can continue to educate myself and hence educate others on the latest interpretations of the law. My MA Gun Law seminar will be getting it's 9th revision today (2 of which were quite substantial) since last Summer. It's a "forever moving target"!

To your question: NH does NOT require any licenses/permits to possess/transport any type of guns in your vehicle as long as they are unloaded (I do recall reading that two very prominent NH firearms attorneys DISAGREE about whether or not a loaded mag near a gun in a vehicle constitutes a "loaded gun"!). So FOPA need not be addressed if you are a MA LTC holder going into/out of NH.

 

[Terminator03]

Well, I never claimed to be perfect (but I do try to give correct info and willingly take corrections) and yes, the laws are so convoluted that it is very easy to get tripped up. However, better to be "tripped up" with a more conservative reading of the law than a more liberal interpretation. Some states consider a loaded mag == loaded gun, and I'm betting that was where I got my mis-interpreted info from. [I will still advise people that it is best to lock the ammo up in a separate container for FOPA as a more conservative approach but will state it as "opinion" and not law.]

I "live" here on NES so that I can continue to educate myself and hence educate others on the latest interpretations of the law. My MA Gun Law seminar will be getting it's 9th revision today (2 of which were quite substantial) since last Summer. It's a "forever moving target"!

To your question: NH does NOT require any licenses/permits to possess/transport any type of guns in your vehicle as long as they are unloaded (I do recall reading that two very prominent NH firearms attorneys DISAGREE about whether or not a loaded mag near a gun in a vehicle constitutes a "loaded gun"!). So FOPA need not be addressed if you are a MA LTC holder going into/out of NH.

Thanks Len for once again providing a concise answer. I guess, I shouldn't have used NH as the example, though, because of their lack of permit/license. Let's use a state like CT as an example instead, since I live right on the border. I used NH originally, since I go there frequently to visit family, but in this case CT would be more applicable because of their licensing requirements.

 

[Spanz]

I am driving out to colorado this fall for some serious hunting. that would entail driving thru upstate ny, and other not so friendly states. Is there some website that explains which states are the worst (i.e. the ones I should just drive on thru without stopping), and which states are the friendliest?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks Len for once again providing a concise answer. I guess, I shouldn't have used NH as the example, though, because of their lack of permit/license. Let's use a state like CT as an example instead, since I live right on the border. I used NH originally, since I go there frequently to visit family, but in this case CT would be more applicable because of their licensing requirements.

The problem with your example is that FOPA requires that you are "legal in originating and destination states", allowing you to drive thru unfriendly states where you would not be legal.

Unless you are driving thru CT from MA, waving at your relatives as you pass by them on your way back to MA w/o stopping, FOPA does you no good with handguns in the car (CT requires a permit). I don't know CT laws on long guns, so I won't offer any opinion there. Your example is State A = MA (you have LTC and are legal) and State B = CT (destination and originating state for return) where w/o a CT NR permit you can't possess/transport handguns in CT.

I am driving out to colorado this fall for some serious hunting. that would entail driving thru upstate ny, and other not so friendly states. Is there some website that explains which states are the worst (i.e. the ones I should just drive on thru without stopping), and which states are the friendliest?

I don't know routes across country as I've never driven that way, but will offer that NY and IL are two of the worst states out there wrt gun possession. NJ too, but I am not sure that you'd be passing thru that hell-hole. CT is unfriendly wrt handguns but if all you stop for is gas/food/bathroom you should be OK.

 

[Terminator03]

Thanks Len, that is pretty much as I thought it would be, but was just curious since I live in a border town, so my chances of crossing that imaginary line that makes me illegal are ever present. Guess, I really should look into getting a CT NR permit. Man, I really hope that bill passes so we can stop becoming criminals for crossing imaginary lines!

 

[boatman]

On this same subject, while hopefully not hijacking the thread, can anyone recommend combination lockable small storage cases that are inexpensive to keep guns in while travelling as to stay compliant with law.

I don't want a key lock, it must be a combo.

I would try this, but it got poor reviews http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-NV30...ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1328052753&sr=1-4

I am wondering if my old leather briefcases from the 80s, that have lockable hasps would actually comply? I was stunned to find out from Les (thanks) that i thought my trigger lock was a good thing actually does nothing via the law. How ironic would it be that a leathercovered cardboard briefcase would comply while a metal trigger lock doesn't.

Anyway, any helpful recommendations on inexpensive combo lockable cases are appreciated.

 

[BOBKATT]

You are allowed to go to ranges and pass through Mass with firearms, but the police don't think so and I'm sure neither does Marsha.

You need to be speciffic, because this is not true of all guns. If you don't know this, please reread the law. If you do know, be careful not to post misleading info and get others in trouble.

 

[giulia]

I am driving out to colorado this fall for some serious hunting. that would entail driving thru upstate ny, and other not so friendly states. Is there some website that explains which states are the worst (i.e. the ones I should just drive on thru without stopping), and which states are the friendliest?

Here are two sites I use re ccw and traveling in the U.S. The first one, USA Carry let's you pick a state and before it brings up the reciprocity info, asks if you have a resident or non-resident permit. The second one, Handgun Law opens up a pdf file with the information. What I like about the latter is in the upper right corner of the pdf it advises if you must inform LEOs if you are carrying. It also has info re how to apply for a permit for residents and non-residents, what they consider a loaded firearm, and a lot more. Both sites show when the information was last updated, too.