Foreign Nationals and Firearms Possession

[DarthRevan]

I'm not even talking about illegals, people on student visas cant go to the range? That's bullshite.

 

[Lip]

I'm not even talking about illegals, people on student visas cant go to the range? That's bullshite.

Sure they can go, but owning a weapon whilst here, no.

 

[DarthRevan]

You deleted you post quoting me then saying we'll "agree to disagree" but how are they supposed to:

Good make you sh@thole like ours. Just like our founders did.

If we aren't allowing them range access?

Then you go and say:

Sure they can go, but owning a weapon whilst here, no.

The right to self defense is a human right, not just a right for citizens like you've previously mentioned. You're more inclined to give a felon a firearm before an illegal? Based on that alone and assuming the illegal has broke no other law I think I'd rather they had a gun.
(I'm all for nonviolent felons getting their rights back after time served FWIW)

 

[evalance]

I have no issue with ex convicts having 2a rights they do. I have an issue with foreigners who are not citizens who do. See my tag line? I'm an unapologetic nationalist. I don't gaf about other nations only mine. I want all of my tribe armed. Every last woman and child. But not non Americans, not so much. So I'm gonna sleep sound in my beliefs.

i got lots to sell to you, didn't know me having it offended you. what u want ar's, aks or are you into ww2 stuff?

 

[Lip]

You deleted you post quoting me then saying we'll "agree to disagree" but how are they supposed to:

If we aren't allowing them range access?

Then you go and say:

The right to self defense is a human right, not just a right for citizens like you've previously mentioned. You're more inclined to give a felon a firearm before an illegal? Based on that alone and assuming the illegal has broke no other law I think I'd rather they had a gun.
(I'm all for nonviolent felons getting their rights back after time served FWIW)

It sure is, but as citizens. I'd rather not have armed foreigners who have no interest assimilating in our nation armed. That's historically a recipe for disaster.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Just another data point: you become a PP if you renounce US citizenship.

 

[67ray]

Just another data point: you become a PP if you renounce US citizenship.

If you do this, are you then an illegal? What is your status if not citizen?

What ever it is, it's no fun

 

[SpaceCritter]

If you do this, are you then an illegal? What is your status if not citizen?

I haven't looked into it enough (I still have both passports), but were I to hazard a guess, renunciation would make me Irish only and thus subject to whatever processes and treaties surround presence in the US as an Irish national, EXCEPT unlike your average Paddy, would be a PP cuz specifically mentioned in GCA68.

 

[zboys]

The only thing that comes to mind is the foreigners that took all the flight training in the US, for the sole purpose to kill Americans with those very planes they learned to fly here on 9/11

 

[milktree]

It sure is, but as citizens. I'd rather not have armed foreigners who have no interest assimilating in our nation armed. That's historically a recipe for disaster.

You keep saying “historically”. Can you be more specific? Where are you talking about, and when?

 

[Wendell]

Yes once they are citizens. Illegals, no.

Try reading the law before spouting off your nonsense. It's not that complicated if you know the difference between 'legal' and 'illegal'.

• Legal resident aliens can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa waiver can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa must meet an exception to the law (such as a hunting license, or a match invitation, etc...in which case they can), otherwise they are prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition.
• Illegal aliens CANNOT posses firearms or ammunition (legally).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Sure they can go, but owning a weapon whilst here, no.

Can you provide a reasoned argument (other than "I want" or "good public policy") that will allow the courts to rule the 2A does not apply to legal resident non-citizens that would not, under the same logic, allow the court to decide that the 2A does not apply to citizens?

Remember, the argument "the founders obviously meant/did not anticipate/etc." could also be used to justify a ban on all modern weaponry, so that argument would meet the criteria.

 

[bdb]

Try reading the law before spouting off your nonsense. It's not that complicated if you know the difference between 'legal' and 'illegal'.

• Legal resident aliens can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa waiver can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa must meet an exception to the law (such as a hunting license, or a match invitation, etc...in which case they can), otherwise they are prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition.
• Illegal aliens CANNOT posses firearms or ammunition (legally).

Having read through this thread it seems that if my nephews come visit me from Canada I cannot take them up to my club in NH to go shooting (legally). Am I reading this right?

 

[Portagee]

No, but a large population of armed foreigners in our borders is a bad, historically a bad thing. Sorry if I disagree with you.

I'm a well armed foreigner

 

[milktree]

Having read through this thread it seems that if my nephews come visit me from Canada I cannot take them up to my club in NH to go shooting (legally). Am I reading this right?

No.

Canadians don't need a visa to come to the US, so they're not excluded by "...non-immigrant visa".

 

[slap shot]

Having read through this thread it seems that if my nephews come visit me from Canada I cannot take them up to my club in NH to go shooting (legally). Am I reading this right?

is he on a visa?

 

[Wendell]

Having read through this thread it seems that if my nephews come visit me from Canada I cannot take them up to my club in NH to go shooting (legally). Am I reading this right?

If your nephews are Canadian, and coming to visit you, they'll be admitted under a visa waiver (rather than under a visa), so there is no prohibition. In a different scenario, however, say if your nephews decided to attend university in the United States, for example, in that case they would be admitted under a (education) visa; if admitted under a visa, they'd need to meet an exception to the general prohibition, otherwise they would be prohibited. The exception is not as big a deal as you might imagine - all one needs is a valid hunting license issued by any U.S. state (such as Maine, or Alaska); with a valid hunting license, they would be excepted from that general prohibition on the possession of firearms and ammunition by the non-immigrant alien (admitted under a visa).

If you go to the ATF website and search for 'non-immigrant alien', they explain it well.

Nonimmigrant Aliens | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[bdb]

No.

Canadians don't need a visa to come to the US, so they're not excluded by "...non-immigrant visa".

Got it thanks!

 

[drgrant]

Sure they can go, but owning a weapon whilst here, no.

That's not how prohibited person works. Anyone who touches a gun (under ANY circumstance) has committed a federal felony under the current federal doctrine if they are a PP.

-Mike

 

[milktree]

That's not how prohibited person works. Anyone who touches a gun (under ANY circumstance) has committed a federal felony under the current federal doctrine if they are a PP.

-Mike

I read this all the time, that simply touching is prohibited. Is that in law or regulation somewhere? "touching" and "transfer to" seem pretty different using regular old plain English.

 

[drgrant]

I read this all the time, that simply touching is prohibited. Is that in law or regulation somewhere? "touching" and "transfer to" seem pretty different using regular old plain English.

I should have been more specific, but the idea is that if you're a PP, and you go use a public gun range, as far as the feds are concerned you've just committed a
felony. It may be nexused off the act of renting the gun, shooting it, etc. That's why all of those places collect ID etc, because it enables the feds to do
free fishing expeditions.

-Mike

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Yes once they are citizens. Illegals, no.

It's not binary, you do get that don't you? Non-US citizen does not equal illegal alien.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I read this all the time, that simply touching is prohibited. Is that in law or regulation somewhere? "touching" and "transfer to" seem pretty different using regular old plain English.

An argument can be made that "touching" is not a transfer. Handing the gun or ammo to another person to hold, no matter how temporarily, is a transfer under federal law.

In fact, MGL has an exemption allowing such temporary transfer of all but MGs when under the direct supervision of an LTC or, in the case of certain guns, FID holder. The fact that MGL carves out said exemption is credible evidence that the legislative understanding of "transfer" included the temporary holding and/or use of a gun.

 

[DarthRevan]

It's not binary, you do get that don't you? Non-US citizen does not equal illegal alien.

FoReIgNeRs ArE bAd

 

[Lip]

It's not binary, you do get that don't you? Non-US citizen does not equal illegal alien.

Ok unless you are a citizen where your loyalty is to this nation, then no.

 

[Lip]

FoReIgNeRs ArE bAd

No, but they are not citi

That's not how prohibited person works. Anyone who touches a gun (under ANY circumstance) has committed a federal felony under the current federal doctrine if they are a PP.

-Mike

Works for me

 

[Lip]

I'm a well armed foreigner

Indeed if you are in the borders of the USA that's a huge mistake.

 

[Lip]

Try reading the law before spouting off your nonsense. It's not that complicated if you know the difference between 'legal' and 'illegal'.

• Legal resident aliens can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa waiver can possess firearms and ammunition.
• Legal non-immigrant aliens admitted under a visa must meet an exception to the law (such as a hunting license, or a match invitation, etc...in which case they can), otherwise they are prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition.
• Illegal aliens CANNOT posses firearms or ammunition (legally).

Laws are some times wrong, ie slavery, etal.

 

[Lip]

You deleted you post quoting me then saying we'll "agree to disagree" but how are they supposed to:

If we aren't allowing them range access?

Then you go and say:

The right to self defense is a human right, not just a right for citizens like you've previously mentioned. You're more inclined to give a felon a firearm before an illegal? Based on that alone and assuming the illegal has broke no other law I think I'd rather they had a gun.
(I'm all for nonviolent felons getting their rights back after time served FWIW)

Arming a foriegn body within ones borders is a recipe for failure. Read some. Hell read about our history.

 

[DarthRevan]

That's not how prohibited person works. Anyone who touches a gun (under ANY circumstance) has committed a federal felony under the current federal doctrine if they are a PP.

-Mike

Works for me

Well Lip that's not how you were talking earlier in the thread but you keep editing posts so I cant keep track....