FRS/GMRS...questions

[Viper22]

I just bought a set of FRS/GMRS handheld radios...Midland GXT 760 VP4's to be exact.

http://www.midlandradio.com/Two-Way-Radio.BS3/GXT760VP4


In investigating the differences between FRS and GMRS, I found out about the FCC rules/fee involved with using GMRS. My question to you guys is, for what I will be using the radio's for (hunting, snowmobiling, hiking...) is FRS good enough, or is it worth it to spend the money and get the GMRS license?

 

[cockpitbob]

$85! Wow! Good info here on Wikipedia. If I read it correctly, your whole family (not friends) can operate under 1 license.
However, apparently everyone ignores the license requirement (well, at least 99.6% ignore it).

Estimates of the number of hybrid FRS/GMRS radios sold to date range from 20 to 50 million units or more. This is compared with approximately 80,000 active GMRS licensees (per the FCC database). Enforcement against individuals is rarely, if ever, attempted.

I always try to stay within the law, but when no test is required, it is clear that the license is just a fund raising mechanism. I would have to have a long talk with my conscience about the fee.

ETA: since the GMRS frequencies are essentially the same as the FRS, the only advantage to GMRS is transmit power and possibly quieter channels, but out in the woods the FRS channels won't be choked. The radio's specifications don't say what the transmit power is, but with 4 AA batteries it can't be that much more than FRS power levels. Still, those look like really nice radios.

 

[Realtor MA]

$85! Wow! Good info here on Wikipedia. If I read it correctly, your whole family (not friends) can operate under 1 license.
However, apparently everyone ignores the license requirement (well, at least 99.6% ignore it).
I always try to stay within the law, but when no test is required, it is clear that the license is just a fund raising mechanism. I would have to have a long talk with my conscience about the fee.

ETA: since the GMRS frequencies are essentially the same as the FRS, the only advantage to GMRS is transmit power and possibly quieter channels, but out in the woods the FRS channels won't be choked. The radio's specifications don't say what the transmit power is, but with 4 AA batteries it can't be that much more than FRS power levels. Still, those look like really nice radios.

I think the FRS is limited to .5 watts. That's 1/2 of a watt. Whereas the GMRS is 2 or 5 watts or something like that.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

FRS is limited to .5 watts. GMRS radios can be had in higher output powers, 3,4,5 watts. Don't know if anyone has ever bought the license for GMRS. Don't worry about it. Jack.

 

[0sportsman0]

I bought these about a month ago(54.00 on amazon).They are nice radios for the price.There gmrs output is 5 watts.I wouldnt worry about any kind of licensing.
MY .02 cents

 

[ochmude]

MURS is a decent option as well if you're really concerned about the license. Most people don't even know the GMRS freqs even require a license, though. It's really nothing to worry about.

 

[Viper22]

Thanks for the replys.

Thats what I figured (about the licensing). I did read the wikipedia page on GRMS & FRS last night before posting here. Good info there. I just wanted more opinions on the subject.

Got the Midlands through Cableas. Should be here in 4 to 7 days.

 

[C-pher]

When they first came out. I bought the license. It's for 10 years if I'm not mistaken. My thought process was that at the time, people were monitoring them and asking people what their call was...so, I was going to get it. Where anything can be used as a reason to be a disqualifer for your LTC here in MA...I didn't want to take the chance. Now, like is said above, I don't think that anyone cares anymore. I think 6 or 7 years ago, it was people that were high and mighty because they paid...so everyone else should pay.

Will I renew my GMRS license with the FCC? No, I don't think so. I would just rather see the rest of my family get their Ham Licenses and then use a better communication method.

Now, the one thing that I like about a set os XRS radios I have, they are more secure as they jump freq's every 100th of a second or so...and...you can actually Text Message between the two radios for silent transmissions.

 

[n1oty]

Besides having my ham ticket, I have had a GMRS license for a number of years now. I even have a repeater in Plymouth on one of the GMRS frequency pairs. I am awaiting the FCC's upcoming decision on GMRS. There is a lot of speculation as to the future of GMRS. If it even survives, it may not be the same radio service that we have known for years.

 

[C-pher]

Besides having my ham ticket, I have had a GMRS license for a number of years now. I even have a repeater in Plymouth on one of the GMRS frequency pairs. I am awaiting the FCC's upcoming decision on GMRS. There is a lot of speculation as to the future of GMRS. If it even survives, it may not be the same radio service that we have known for years.

Do you want to expand? Or start a new thread? I'm interested on what you're talking about? Granted, I haven't followed this at all...so I don't know what changes are possibly down the road.

 

[Viper22]

Interested in this info as well. Since my questions have been answered, I think n1oty might be better off starting a new thread. Agreed?

 

[n1oty]

No need for a new thread. This is basic information that may affect the decision of the OP regarding whether to get a GMRS license or not. Here's a link to a web site that has a good discussion of the FCC's NPRM. The web site also has a link to the actual 92 page FCC NPRM, but the FCC is down tonight. Anyway, enjoy!!

http://www.kdsanders.com/2010/will-gmrs-go-freeband-fcc-seeks-comments-on-part-95-review

Do you want to expand? Or start a new thread? I'm interested on what you're talking about? Granted, I haven't followed this at all...so I don't know what changes are possibly down the road.

 

[Zappa]

I am awaiting the FCC's upcoming decision on GMRS. There is a lot of speculation as to the future of GMRS. If it even survives, it may not be the same radio service that we have known for years.

Are referring to narrow band requirements?

 

[n1oty]

No.

Are referring to narrow band requirements?

 

[Viper22]

Interesting read. Thanks for the link n1oty.

 

[C-pher]

OK, so I understand getting rid of the requirements and licensing. But why would that mean no more GRMS repeaters? That one I don't understand.

 

[n1oty]

It's the FCC..........

The FCC blows hot and cold, depending on the administration in power, democrat or republican. Right now, the Dems hold 3 out of 5 seats, including the chairmanship, so Dem philosophy prevails. Rather than crack down on the law breakers and keep GMRS "clean", as the FCC has done with ham radio, they seem to be entertaining the idea of running GMRS like the CB band. In other words, let it go to the dogs and turn a blind eye to it. Anyone who has listened to CB channel 19 in the NY/NJ area already knows what a cesspool that has become with "license by rule".

The problem for the FCC is that they can not let it become a "high power" cesspool. Current GMRS ops allow up to 50 watts of power. A repeater will let those 50 watt mobiles play over a large area. If the FCC goes with license by rule, I'm sure they will fold back the power output to 2 watts and disallow repeaters.

As to why the FCC is looking at possible changes to the GMRS band. I don't know. Maybe they have nothing better to occupy their time. Plus, we really don't know at this point how things will play out. Comments to the NPRM were only submitted a few months ago. God only knows how long the FCC will take mulling this matter.

OK, so I understand getting rid of the requirements and licensing. But why would that mean no more GRMS repeaters? That one I don't understand.

 

[C-pher]

The FCC blows hot and cold, depending on the administration in power, democrat or republican. Right now, the Dems hold 3 out of 5 seats, including the chairmanship, so Dem philosophy prevails. Rather than crack down on the law breakers and keep GMRS "clean", as the FCC has done with ham radio, they seem to be entertaining the idea of running GMRS like the CB band. In other words, let it go to the dogs and turn a blind eye to it. Anyone who has listened to CB channel 19 in the NY/NJ area already knows what a cesspool that has become with "license by rule".

The problem for the FCC is that they can not let it become a "high power" cesspool. Current GMRS ops allow up to 50 watts of power. A repeater will let those 50 watt mobiles play over a large area. If the FCC goes with license by rule, I'm sure they will fold back the power output to 2 watts and disallow repeaters.

As to why the FCC is looking at possible changes to the GMRS band. I don't know. Maybe they have nothing better to occupy their time. Plus, we really don't know at this point how things will play out. Comments to the NPRM were only submitted a few months ago. God only knows how long the FCC will take mulling this matter.

That's what I think...is that it's easier to let the band go than enforce it's use. But there's where the problem lies. How many people are not getting the license. When I worked at Dicks, people one, didn't know that they needed the license. And two, thought that I was nuts to even get mine.

So, they are letting people speak freely on this band now for what?? 5-10 years already?? So how do they crack down? Have people monitor the bands like they do Hams? Have people foxhound...then fine them? I don't really see how they are going to enforce it now after all this time.

 

[drgrant]

The problem for the FCC is that they can not let it become a "high power" cesspool. Current GMRS ops allow up to 50 watts of power. A repeater will let those 50 watt mobiles play over a large area. If the FCC goes with license by rule, I'm sure they will fold back the power output to 2 watts and disallow repeaters.

It's too late now. That cat is long out of the bag. GMRS doesn't have that many channels, so it's not like it uses a ton of bandwidth/spectrum anyways.

-Mike

 

[BigBird]

I have my GMRS license...I was planning on putting a repeater at my parents house (not a high location.) I heard all the stuff happening with the FCC and figure I'll forget about it. I figure I'll stick to ham on the repeaters already up.

 

[uncle griz]

Like John,N1OTY and a friend, I also hold a ham license (for 37 years) and a GMRS license for the last 15 years. I own a high profile repeater on each band and they are just different ways to communicate. One is on 2 meters and the other on GMRS uhf. GMRS has picked up a little since we hams lost the 440 band in SE Mass thanks to the DOD. The 900 band has also gained interest....lots of bands to have fun on. 73 from Gary, W1GRC

 

[n1oty]

Hey Gary,

Good to see you here on Northeastshooters. I'm giving my iDAS/Nexedge presentation at the April meeting of the Whitman club, so I'll either see you there or at Near-Fest. That is coming up fairly soon as well.

Like John,N1OTY and a friend, I also hold a ham license (for 37 years) and a GMRS license for the last 15 years. I own a high profile repeater on each band and they are just different ways to communicate. One is on 2 meters and the other on GMRS uhf. GMRS has picked up a little since we hams lost the 440 band in SE Mass thanks to the DOD. The 900 band has also gained interest....lots of bands to have fun on. 73 from Gary, W1GRC

 

[beaker]

GMRS is a great alternative if you just want to communicate with family and friends and aren't necessarily interested in the other stuff you can do with a HAM license. $75 for 10 years, and it covers everyone in your family. I would get the license if you will use it regularly, you can get hung out to dry if you get caught. Then you can use the 5Watt HT portables, or get a 50W mobile or base station radio. The federal highway robbery price is supposed to go down to $35, but the Potato for Brains administration has to put it into effect and they haven't done it yet. The difference between a cheap pair of Midland FRS or GMRS radio's and a pair of one of the better 5W hand sets is huge. I have ordered a Wouxun KG-UV9G Pro and a couple of Wouxun KG-905G's for family use and SHTF comms. The KG-UV9G can listen to the HAM bands, but wont transmit. It is pre-programmed with known repeaters and all federal, state and local frequencies to monitor. I am also getting ready to take the HAM test, which isn't hard, but it is a lot of studying if you don't have a background in radio. Totally doable, but work. GMRS has quickly become the comms of choice for overlander's (4x4 off road) peeps.

 

[Uzi2]

GMRS is a great alternative if you just want to communicate with family and friends and aren't necessarily interested in the other stuff you can do with a HAM license. $75 for 10 years, and it covers everyone in your family. I would get the license if you will use it regularly, you can get hung out to dry if you get caught. Then you can use the 5Watt HT portables, or get a 50W mobile or base station radio. The federal highway robbery price is supposed to go down to $35, but the Potato for Brains administration has to put it into effect and they haven't done it yet. The difference between a cheap pair of Midland FRS or GMRS radio's and a pair of one of the better 5W hand sets is huge. I have ordered a Wouxun KG-UV9G Pro and a couple of Wouxun KG-905G's for family use and SHTF comms. The KG-UV9G can listen to the HAM bands, but wont transmit. It is pre-programmed with known repeaters and all federal, state and local frequencies to monitor. I am also getting ready to take the HAM test, which isn't hard, but it is a lot of studying if you don't have a background in radio. Totally doable, but work. GMRS has quickly become the comms of choice for overlander's (4x4 off road) peeps.

There are “open” GMRS repeaters all across the country just like ham repeaters but usually with smaller coverage footprints.
There are also “permission required” repeaters and most will give you permission readily just by sending them a request by email.


Check here.

myGMRS.com: GMRS Repeater Directory and Community

myGMRS.com is a General Mobile Radio Service community where users can search for and submit repeaters in their area.

mygmrs.com

 

[widnerkj]

There is pretty fantastic GMRS coverage here in southern AZ. Gives me confidence to hike / 4wheel out in places without cell coverage by myself. Lots of good folks to chat with on the repeaters in this area. I briefly used a bofang. Then ponied up for a real motorola XPR7550e as my handheld. The truck has a wuxon Kg1000g in it. It's another good communications route to have available.

 

[Uzi2]

There is pretty fantastic GMRS coverage here in southern AZ. Gives me confidence to hike / 4wheel out in places without cell coverage by myself. Lots of good folks to chat with on the repeaters in this area. I briefly used a bofang. Then ponied up for a real motorola XPR7550e as my handheld. The truck has a wuxon Kg1000g in it. It's another good communications route to have available.

That's good to hear.

 

[Knob Creek]

Resurrecting this thread. Have my Ham license but looking for getting a couple GMRS radios for backpacking with some friends. I know I can get a license easy enough. But am looking for a book to get me started on using it and connecting and finding repeaters.

 

[ToddDubya]

There's not much to learn. The repeater outputs use the same channels as simplex, then there are repeater inputs. So you'll see that the same frequency is used for CH 15 simplex as Repeater 15 output. So if you hear someone on CH 15 they could be either talking simplex or it could be the output of a repeater. Repeaters can use tones just like ham repeaters.

From what I've seen most repeaters are privately owned and they do want you to identify with your GMRS license when you use them. Once you have your license, you can join this site to help find repeaters.

myGMRS.com: GMRS Repeater Directory and Community

myGMRS.com is a General Mobile Radio Service community where users can search for and submit repeaters in their area.

mygmrs.com

Full disclosure, I've not used GMRS. I bought some HTs to play with and see if they'd be useful, but I don't have any friends so they weren't useful.

GMRS Simplex Frequencies Chart:​

Channel	Frequency	GMRS Max Power	Bandwidth
1	462.5625 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
2	462.5875 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
3	462.6125 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
4	462.6375 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
5	462.6625 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
6	462.6875 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
7	462.7125 MHz	5 Watt	20 kHz
8	467.5625 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
9	467.5875 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
10	467.6125 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
11	467.6375 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
12	467.6625 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
13	467.6875 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
14	467.7125 MHz	0.5 Watt	12.5 kHz
15	462.5500 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
16	462.5750 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
17	462.6000 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
18	462.6250 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
19	462.6500 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
20	462.6750 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
21	462.7000 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
22	462.7250 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz

GMRS Repeater Frequencies Chart:​

Channel	RX Frequency	TX Frequency	GMRS Max Power	Bandwidth
15RP	462.5500 MHz	467.5500 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
16RP	462.5750 MHz	467.5750 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
17RP	462.6000 MHz	467.6000 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
18RP	462.6250 MHz	467.6250 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
19RP	462.6500 MHz	467.6500 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
20RP	462.6750 MHz	467.6750 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
21RP	462.7000 MHz	467.7000 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz
22RP	462.7250 MHz	467.7250 MHz	50 Watt	20 kHz

The List of GMRS Frequencies and Channels - RadioThoughts

If you’re a GMRS user, knowing your GMRS frequency list and channels is essential. That will help you to use GMRS radio confidently.

radiothoughts.com