"Full length sizing die" question:

[Jim Poulette]

So, I've got the LNL AP working great (with new 9mm brass). Stations 2-5 (PTX/Lock out die/bullet drop/seat-taper crimp) work almost effortlessly. Final weights and OAL are very repeatable and I've put several hundred rounds through it so far with no problems.

Last night I started with some once-fired Rem brass, cleaned them up good, lubed (lay out in box and spray method) and set-up the de-cap/full lenth sizing die (Station 1).

It works perfectly (did 20 rounds) - but it seemd to take a lot more force then the other 4 stations combined to size a case. Even well lubed cases take quite a crank on the handle. No sticking or jumping, just lots of force as the case goes up into the sizing element. Is this normal?

Maybe overkill, but I can't help but wonder if a separate (simple) station to resize/ decap would keep the "cranking" off the 5 position turret.

 

[TrashcanDan]

Is it 9mm cases that you lubed?

The lube could very well be causing the extra force needed, meaning it could be trapped in the die and is now acting like a hydraulic cylinder.

I've never lubed any pistol brass, most of the carbide dies eliminate the need for it.

 

[daekken]

Is it a carbide die? If so, no lube needed.

 

[Jim Poulette]

It is carbide, and the lube is a VERY light spray. (yes 9mm)

The first few I tried dry and they were unbearable. The lube seemed to help a little. Coming out is almost effortless, it's just going in.....wow. You'd think if it was hydraulic force - you'd feel it both ways?

I can disassemble the die, clean again, and start from scratch again. I cleaned them well when new......but wko knows.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Oh by the way, as a double check I've been weighing finished rounds.

Imagine my surprise when I found a 7gr difference between Sig brass (new) and Rem brass (once fired). I suspect these variances are also normal?

 

[walter62]

Have you checked the wall thickness? Some brass is thinner than others (ie. weight difference)

 

[TrashcanDan]

Could be, but case weight really isn't an issue for pistol brass.
So long as the volume (d.o.w.) is the same (or close) between the 2 manufacturers, you are good to go.

 

[Jim Poulette]

That's what I assumed. A > 10% reduction in weight is pretty significant, so I will compare wall thicknesses. No biggee I suppose.....

I did notice the lock out die arm was positioned a little differently - so maybe the base? Like I said, I'll take some measurements later.

I think I will just take the die apart and re clean, and try it again.

 

[DW357]

I never weigh my brass - not entirely sure what is the purpose of that?
And never lube my 9mm brass. But I will say it does take some force to size the brass depending on brand and what gun they were fired in.
Doesn’t the brass bulge a little in glocks? I’m not a Glock owner but would that create some significant force to resize?

 

[Jim Poulette]

I weight brass occasionally just for interest. OK - "good force".......yes.

As I suspected - wall thickness identical (Sig - Rem / .011-.012 / using a vernier), pocket depth as follows (5 pieces):

Sig (new): .570/.570/.570/.570/.570
Rem(once fired): .579/.580/.579/.580/.580

This all nice - but still doesn't account for a 10% difference in mass. Like I said - who knows!

 

[jek]

Qualitatively speaking, I can always tell when I am full length sizing fired R-P brass, since it takes more effort.

 

[DW357]

Qualitatively speaking, I can always tell when I am full length sizing fired R-P brass, since it takes more effort.

yup same here. I think S&B is similar if i recall

 

[jek]

yup same here. I think S&B is similar if i recall

My recollection as well.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Interesting - I have a bunch of once fired Sig & Hornady too. I'll need to see how that behaves.

This is clearly not a show stopper but of the 5 turret positions, the sizing die requires WAY more force than the others.

 

[EddieCoyle]

the sizing die requires WAY more force than the others.

That's normal. If you think 9mm is bad, try loading S&W 500.

 

[greencobra]

he's talking about a batch of NEW brass then ONCE FIRED brass. i would expect fired brass to be expanded to the size of the gun chamber, needing more "force" to resize as opposed to new brass.

 

[Fixxah]

If you are using titanium nitride dies, no lube.

 

[xtry51]

No lube on pistol cases if die is carbide.

As other have said the force can vary greatly between brands.

 

[Jim Poulette]

he's talking about a batch of NEW brass then ONCE FIRED brass. i would expect fired brass to be expanded to the size of the gun chamber, needing more "force" to resize as opposed to new brass.

Exactly.

With the new brass - that die wasn't even in the turret.

This was the first time I've ever used fired brass, and the de-cap/size die in Station 1. I've also heard both sides about lube/no-lube with 9mm/carbide. I suspect personal choices all over the place.

Still getting my sea legs with all this - it'll come in time.

 

[DW357]

It's really just personal preference. I know a few reloaders who lube 9mm brass and plenty who don't.

 

[Jim Poulette]

I guess when using re-cycled brass, you get use to that heavy pull of that first die.

Funny, it doesn't seem as bad today as it did last night. I do think I'll stick with the lube - seems to also help out on both the bullet drop and the taper crimp.

 

[mac1911]

I weight brass occasionally just for interest. OK - "good force".......yes.

As I suspected - wall thickness identical (Sig - Rem / .011-.012 / using a vernier), pocket depth as follows (5 pieces):

Sig (new): .570/.570/.570/.570/.570
Rem(once fired): .579/.580/.579/.580/.580

This all nice - but still doesn't account for a 10% difference in mass. Like I said - who knows!

You would need to know the alloy content.
Are you sure the Rems are not plated steel?
You went from new cases to one fired cases.
Do you know the history of that brass?
I get brass once in a while from a few MG owners. Its always a bit tighter going through the dies
380,9,45,223,308
Its basically last ditch brass for me.

 

[Jim Poulette]

No history, other than range brass. It was a 3K (cleaned) lot at a reasonable price - decent stuff, a few 380's in there, but so far so good.

I'm getting use to it now - I was spoiled starting off with brand new brass (no need to de-prime or size).

Clearly not in Kansas anymore. I'm in the reloading "real world" now I suspect.......

 

[TrashcanDan]

Clearly not in Kansas anymore. I'm in the reloading "real world" now I suspect.......

Keep an eye out for those stepped cases.
If you miss one on sorting, you'll find it on the powder station!

 

[mac1911]

No history, other than range brass. It was a 3K (cleaned) lot at a reasonable price - decent stuff, a few 380's in there, but so far so good.

I'm getting use to it now - I was spoiled starting off with brand new brass (no need to de-prime or size).

Clearly not in Kansas anymore. I'm in the reloading "real world" now I suspect.......

on the rare occasion I run new brass I run it through the sizer, gets rid of the somewhat not round cases.