G19 vs Sig P320c

[dcmdon]

I just want to add one semi-related point.

In the last 30 odd years I've taught many people to shoot. Some informally and some as a NRA Basic Pistol Instructor.

You've all heard me rail on about how useful a .22 can be early in your learning to avoid the dreaded flinch or push. Moving to centerfire too soon is the most common mistake I see.

But the SECOND most common mistake I see is buying a "compact" version of a duty sized gun. The P320 and G19 are extraordinarily versatile guns. The quintisential "gun to have if you could only have one gun".

But most of us aren't constrained that way. Most people who buy something like this end up carrying it less than they think they will. They also realize its not the ideal platform for range time.

I usually advise people to buy a duty gun or larger (X5 Legion or G34) as their second gun after a .22. This makes a great gun todefelop skills on and also makes a great home defense gun. Especially the Glock since you can buy legal pre-ban mags.

Then I suggest they buy something smaller than a P320 compact or G19. Since they are far more likely to carry it.

Some people go the G43/P365 route.
Some go the pocket .380 route.

The 380 is easier to carry. Harder to shoot, in most cases, at least if its a truly pocket sized gun. (Kahr P380/CW380, LCP, etc) 9mm sized 380s like the Shield EZ and Glock 42 are easier to shoot than just about any other centerfire gun. Especially if fitted with a mag extension that allows you to get your whole hand around the grip.

Either way, the bottom line is that a "compact" gun like a G19 or P320 Compact is often a less than ideal carry gun, since its usually larger than new shooters are comfortable with.

 

[Boghog1]

I just want to add one semi-related point.

In the last 30 odd years I've taught many people to shoot. Some informally and some as a NRA Basic Pistol Instructor.

You've all heard me rail on about how useful a .22 can be early in your learning to avoid the dreaded flinch or push. Moving to centerfire too soon is the most common mistake I see.

But the SECOND most common mistake I see is buying a "compact" version of a duty sized gun. The P320 and G19 are extraordinarily versatile guns. The quintisential "gun to have if you could only have one gun".

But most of us aren't constrained that way. Most people who buy something like this end up carrying it less than they think they will. They also realize its not the ideal platform for range time.

I usually advise people to buy a duty gun or larger (X5 Legion or G34) as their second gun after a .22. This makes a great gun todefelop skills on and also makes a great home defense gun. Especially the Glock since you can buy legal pre-ban mags.

Then I suggest they buy something smaller than a P320 compact or G19. Since they are far more likely to carry it.

Some people go the G43/P365 route.
Some go the pocket .380 route.

The 380 is easier to carry. Harder to shoot, in most cases, at least if its a truly pocket sized gun. (Kahr P380/CW380, LCP, etc) 9mm sized 380s like the Shield EZ and Glock 42 are easier to shoot than just about any other centerfire gun. Especially if fitted with a mag extension that allows you to get your whole hand around the grip.

Either way, the bottom line is that a "compact" gun like a G19 or P320 Compact is often a less than ideal carry gun, since its usually larger than new shooters are comfortable with.

Started 30 plus years ago on a ruger 22, moved to a beretta 84 and had that for almost 20 years, got the glock almost 10 years ago now.

 

[jkelly1229]

What ever you like but there's Beretta and then there's everything else.

Yeah they've been on a role since the 92 has been released..

The arx abomination that looks like an ar got pregnant in a Dennys bathroom

The apx is hideous and I don't know why the decocking bar has to pop up from the slide but it's stupid and you can disable the gun.

The nano and pico both failed

And yeah they made the 92 look worse with that competition abortion

 

[The5thDentist]

It's like any other tool. What works best in your hand?

With the Sig, you have so many ways to customize.

Lots of people on the Facebook P320 groups have dumped the standard grip modules for either the X-series or Wilson Combat's module. Most have also switched to flat triggers. Either Sig's or Grayguns' are the most popular in the groups I'm in.

I personally shoot better with the P320, so I sold my Glock in 2019.

 

[paul73]

I'm a Glock guy. Not a fanboy, just that I've found they work for me, so I'm happy.

If the 320 works for you, stop second guessing yourself.
There isn't enough difference between the two to really worry about.

The key differentiator for the Glock against most competitors is the massive aftermarket for them. But the 320 is probably the only competitor with a substantial aftermarket. I'd also guess that the 320 aftermarket is growing faster than the Glocks. Since the Glock market is mature and the Sigs is pretty new.

If I were you the only theing that could justify selling the 320 and buying the Glock would be if you tried a Gen4 or 5 G19 and found that you shot it substantially better. Other than that. Keep what you have and learn to shoot it well.

And remove that MA manual safety. It takes all of 5 minutes.
And if you get a Glock, immediately install a GLOCK brand 4.5 lb connector. you will end up with a real trigger pull between 5.5 and 6.5 lbs. Totally appropriate for a carry gun.

Gen5 G34, overwatch polydat trigger, usual polish job on stock parts - trigger pull in exactly 4.5lbs. Love it.

 

[Andykap]

Out of the box, the P320 is a better gun. How many of you Glock owners actually keep their stock? You have more Glock accessories than pizza toppings as just about everyone is upgrading it, either to make it better or to Gucci it.
my simple question is, how many of Glock or Sig owners can live with their gun without upgrades?

 

[jrpascucci]

Don't overlook the fact that the the P320 trigger group is the serialized part. This means, each for, say, 40-60% of used-gun price, you can have like 7 substantially different guns: different calibers, lengths, weights, optics and irons, &c. It's a system.

If you don't already have one, a gray guns trigger is one of the standard, first, best upgrades (unless it's going to be your daily carry, then I don't generally recommend upgrading the internals).

 

[Dennis in MA]

Out of the box, the P320 is a better gun. How many of you Glock owners actually keep their stock? You have more Glock accessories than pizza toppings as just about everyone is upgrading it, either to make it better or to Gucci it.
my simple question is, how many of Glock or Sig owners can live with their gun without upgrades?

Hmmm. Short of sights, I think every one of my Glocks is stock. I might dry-fire them 500 times or so, but that's about it. In the last 20 years, I've seen too many people have problems with the latest-greatest drop-in Glock mods.

Now, my P80??? That I fuddled with. As it should be. That's the point of a P80.

 

[weekendracer]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess it is part buyers remorse, part believing the hype the sig fanboys made them out to be something they really are not, yes the trigger is decent but it isn't the second coming I was expecting. I'll give it a bit more time, at least this gives me the opportunity to send the Glock slide out for some work.

Either way, it sounds like you got a hell of a deal considering the current environment. Figure out if you want to keep it or flip it in a hot seller's market and grab a Glock like everyone else.

I have not shot the 320, but everyone I know that has has liked it. I'm still getting used to the Glock.

 

[citoriguy]

Out of the box, the P320 is a better gun. How many of you Glock owners actually keep their stock? You have more Glock accessories than pizza toppings as just about everyone is upgrading it, either to make it better or to Gucci it.
my simple question is, how many of Glock or Sig owners can live with their gun without upgrades?

But for the sights on my Glocks, all of the Sigs and Glocks in this house are otherwise just like they came in the box.

 

[dcmdon]

Out of the box, the P320 is a better gun. How many of you Glock owners actually keep their stock? You have more Glock accessories than pizza toppings as just about everyone is upgrading it, either to make it better or to Gucci it.
my simple question is, how many of Glock or Sig owners can live with their gun without upgrades?

That is kind of an unfair question since the best improvement you can make to a Glock costs $15 and takes 20 minutes for a novice to install. That's a 4.5# connector from a G34.

There is a huge difference between this and having to buy a $125 trigger kit for a M&P to get the trigger pull down below 12#!!

One of the reasons that the Glock was so successful was that it was a supremely competent carry / fighting / duty gun with ZERO upgrades. I have watched Dave Sevigney win IDPA matches with a stock G17 that he took out of the box that morning. I was fortunate enough to be squadded with him so I got to watch every stage of his amazing performance first hand.

The short answer to your question, and this is inarguable. EVERYONE can live with their Glock or P320 with the stock triggers. They work fine as is. Most people change things on these guns because they want to. Not because they need to.

This was another place Glock was different when it was introduced. If you carried a 1911, the only game in town then was Colt. And if you wanted to carry your Colt, knowledgeable people NEVER carried stock colts. (I'm not saying that the Gen3 S&W or the Beretta 92, or the Sig P226 couldn't be carried stock. These contemporaries to the original US Glocks ran great stock.)

 

[dcmdon]

One last thing. Glock used to call the "-" connector from the G34/35/41 a 3.5# connector.
They now call it a 4.5# connector.

Nothing has changed. What has changed is where the trigger gauge is placed on the trigger.
Originally Glock measured the pull with the gauge place on the end of the trigger. This lengthened the fulcrum of the trigger and resulted in a lighter reading.

With Gen4, they started measuring the pull with the gauge in the middle of the trigger bow. Shortening the fulcrum and resulting in a heavier reading.

Same trigger, different testing methodology.

Finally, if anyone who tells you that they "estimate their trigger pul to be . . .", disregard everything they say. I was absolutely astonished how inaccurate my estimates were when I bought a Lymann digital trigger gauge. I had estimated a Les Baer 1911 with a gorgeous trigger to be around 3#. It was 4.8#.

I had estimated my stock Gen 3 G19 to be about 5# with some fluff and buff, but otherwise stock. It was over 7#. (measured in the middle of the bow of the trigger)

Surprised, I did the same experiment on 2 friends. On their guns. I simply brought the trigger gauge to the gun club. They were off in their estimates by even more than I was.

 

[paul73]

One last thing. Glock used to call the "-" connector from the G34/35/41 a 3.5# connector.
They now call it a 4.5# connector.

this is 3.5# one- it has more aggressive angle - second link shows it well. a top part on the stock one will be almost horizontal.

Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector for Glock | Best Glock Accessories | GlockStore.com

The Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector helps you shoot faster and more accurately. Find your best Glock accessories at GlockStore.com

www.glockstore.com

Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector for G42/43?43X/48 | Best Glock Accessories | GlockStore.com

Improve heavy trigger pull of your Glock 43 with our Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector. Visit glockstore.com for all your Glock 43 accessories today.

www.glockstore.com

a stock 4.5# connector is perfect in my opinion. it is not too light to be dangerous to carry but light enough to be consistent.
one needs to polish it, of course - it does not take long, but, a 4.5# pull is very optimal.
i still advocate for a flat face trigger itself - a $60 more - but, it is not that critical. for pundits to relax - that trigger below uses all stock parts except of the trigger itself - so, also safe to carry.

PolyDAT Trigger for Glock™

OP is pleased to introduce the first flat-faced aftermarket polymer trigger for you Glock pistol upgrade. With a reduced cost, there's no reason not to upgrade.

overwatchprecision.com

 

[dcmdon]

You are comparing aftermarket connectors.

When I took my Glock armorers class, they told us that the 4.5# connector was identical to the 3.5# connector.

IMHO - an aftermarket connector is a foolish addition to a glock that will be carried for defensive use.

In an effort to achieve a better trigger pull, some aftermarket connectors will cause the trigger bar to cam down sooner so that the pull is shorter. This means that the striker is not being pulled to the rear as far as a stock connector and results in a lighter primer strike than stock.

Like you said, the stock Glock "-" connector with a fluff and buff is just about perfect. There is no reason to go aftermarket.

I'll take it one step further. I have a G34 that I only use for fun and matches. I only shoot my reloads through it. I only use Federal primers for the reloads for this gun. Federal primers are "softer" or more sensitive than other primers. With this gun I can use a 2.5# striker spring with total reliability. The stock spring is 5.5#. So you can imagine what this does for the weight of the trigger pull. Its less than half of a stock G34 and is perfectly smooth because all the parts are polished. Its so good I've never felt the need to spend the money on an aftermarket trigger.

 

[paul73]

You are comparing aftermarket connectors.

When I took my Glock armorers class, they told us that the 4.5# connector was identical to the 3.5# connector.

IMHO - an aftermarket connector is a foolish addition to a glock that will be carried for defensive use.

In an effort to achieve a better trigger pull, some aftermarket connectors will cause the trigger bar to cam down sooner so that the pull is shorter. This means that the striker is not being pulled to the rear as far as a stock connector and results in a lighter primer strike than stock.

Like you said, the stock Glock "-" connector with a fluff and buff is just about perfect. There is no reason to go aftermarket.

I'll take it one step further. I have a G34 that I only use for fun and matches. I only shoot my reloads through it. I only use Federal primers for the reloads for this gun. Federal primers are "softer" or more sensitive than other primers. With this gun I can use a 2.5# striker spring with total reliability. The stock spring is 5.5#. So you can imagine what this does for the weight of the trigger pull. Its less than half of a stock G34 and is perfectly smooth because all the parts are polished. Its so good I've never felt the need to spend the money on an aftermarket trigger.

watch the video on the link for 3.5# connector, closer to 3/4 into it he shows the difference of the ledge angle.
again, i use stock 4.5# and it is good indeed. with wolf/tula 2.5# striker spring makes me too many duds, so, i am on stock one for now.

 

[Bistro]

Hmmm. Short of sights, I think every one of my Glocks is stock. I might dry-fire them 500 times or so, but that's about it. In the last 20 years, I've seen too many people have problems with the latest-greatest drop-in Glock mods.

Now, my P80??? That I fuddled with. As it should be. That's the point of a P80.

same here, especially with gen 5 trigger breaks smooth for me. I bought a zev trigger a couple years back and didn’t care for it.

 

[dcmdon]

watch the video on the link for 3.5# connector, closer to 3/4 into it he shows the difference of the ledge angle.
again, i use stock 4.5# and it is good indeed. with wolf/tula 2.5# striker spring makes me too many duds, so, i am on stock one for now.

I'll waatch it tonight. thanks.

Re primers and light striker springs. Russian or Eastern European primers are notoriously "hard". When you start running 2.5# springs there is definitely a need to make sure everything is matched right.

 

[dbg326]

I owned a P320 full-size for a short time. Perfectly serviceable, but the standard grip bothered me (too big/round) (this was pre-X models). Since then, I've had the opportunity to handle several of the X-models, as well as the small size standard grip module. Both are miles better in my opinion; however I still haven't rushed out and purchased one. I'd have a tough time deciding between a G19 or a P320. Magazine availability and cross-compatibility in other platforms is the huge advantage to the Glock; while the extremely modular nature of the P320 has its own draw.

 

[MaverickNH]

I just don’t shoot my P320 Compact as well as I shoot my G19 - both with red dots and lights. I tried. I diid several courses at SIG with my P320 and shot it exclusively for a while, but picked up my G19 and nailed it again. Not a huge difference, but I just ran my G19 better. Training should overcome it but I don’t have the time & ammo to love it as much. I’m not a professional and just need one gun to hit well.

When my son comes back from deployment, now that he’s 21, he can have my P320 at Ft Bragg (if he rooms off-base).

 

[mousegunfan]

Both are good. But they have such different grip angles that it has to be each user who decides.

 

[paul73]

I just don’t shoot my P320 Compact as well as I shoot my G19 - both with red dots and lights. I tried. I diid several courses at SIG with my P320 and shot it exclusively for a while, but picked up my G19 and nailed it again. Not a huge difference, but I just ran my G19 better. Training should overcome it but I don’t have the time & ammo to love it as much. I’m not a professional and just need one gun to hit well.

When my son comes back from deployment, now that he’s 21, he can have my P320 at Ft Bragg (if he rooms off-base).

it is interesting - as i had p320 and i sold it, as i felt nothing and did not like it compared to my full size glocks.
but - got the p365 today and it kinda appealed - i have to say i like that trigger feel and how it handles overall, especially at rapid fire. a quite good small gun.

 

[Peicemaker]

Glock. With Trijicon HD sights. My 19 was ok. Then I put good sights on it and did some grip reduction, stippling and polishing of the innards. Holy shit! And it doesnt go boom when you drop it just right. Yay trigger dingus!

 

[chris_1001]

Re: striker springs. My G19 (reasonably modified gen4). Would not reset the trigger properly using anything less than a 5# striker spring.

Drove me nuts trying to figure it out.

But I’m not totally sure there is something else going on. I’ve modded many glocks and no issues.

 

[dcmdon]

it is interesting - as i had p320 and i sold it, as i felt nothing and did not like it compared to my full size glocks.
but - got the p365 today and it kinda appealed - i have to say i like that trigger feel and how it handles overall, especially at rapid fire. a quite good small gun.

I'm in the same boat as you. I've got all Glocks and 1911s. I never liked Sigs. But the 365 is so superior to Glock's offering in this category that its impossible to ignore.

I've actually replaced 2 glocks, my 43 and my 26 with my365.

 

[dcmdon]

One other thing that bears repeating.

Just because one gun feels better in your hand than the other, doesn't mean you will actually shoot it better.

I've experimented with my M&P (which feels wonderful in the hand), my 9mm 1911s, and my G34.

I shoot the Glock best, followed by the 1911, followed by the M&P. Despite the fact that the M&P feels the best in the hand by a large margin.
(when I say "shoot best", I mean practical shooting; reasonable accuracy with as much speed as I can muster. For slow fire accuracy, I shoot the 1911 the best)

 

[paul73]

I'm in the same boat as you. I've got all Glocks and 1911s. I never liked Sigs. But the 365 is so superior to Glock's offering in this category that its impossible to ignore.

I've actually replaced 2 glocks, my 43 and my 26 with my365.

i think it is a combination of a grip angle on p365 with a curve of the back and overall distance to the trigger that just worked for me.
i think for a person with bigger hands and fattier trigger finger it would not be that great, but my middle phalanx sits right on the trigger and pull is pretty intuitive.
i was doing double taps for a first time ever with it yesterday, brand new gun and it was great right out of the box - barely inch or 2 apart at 5yds, very easy to aim and control.
i liked it very much. it will be my EDC from now on for sure, i do feel that i can trust it.
and - of course - 10 rounds in such a small package - it is amazing. i am totally lost of why glock did not do it.

but a G34 MOS Gen5 with RDS is still better.

 

[dcmdon]

Your experience also mirrored mine.
Its great and all that the 365 has a 10 rd mag vs the Glock's 6 round mag.

But the truly amazing thing for me with the 365 was its shootability. It is MUCH easier to shoot well than a 43.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

If you shoot it well and it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, then who cares what brand it is?

 

[mav]

Out of the box, the P320 is a better gun. How many of you Glock owners actually keep their stock? You have more Glock accessories than pizza toppings as just about everyone is upgrading it, either to make it better or to Gucci it.
my simple question is, how many of Glock or Sig owners can live with their gun without upgrades?

I don't keep anything stock, but that isn't because there is something "wrong". I like to tinker. I also think, at least in the case of Glock, there is a ton of low-hanging fruit in terms of "improvements" from stock. Glock is lazy. They have been using the same crappy sights for decades. Are you seriously telling us that you think stock Glock white U sights are the most effective in 2020 or just very cheap to go along with a simple, reliable, inexpensive (everywhere but MA) polymer handgun? Same goes for the plastic recoil springs, trigger, etc.

Sig offers night sights on every model. Sig offers better triggers on their up-market models. Glock is like Ford, you can get any color you want as long as it's black... with a crappy trigger and cheap sights

FWIW, I own a Sig 220, Glock 19 and Glock 17. My EDC is a Glock 19 Gen3... not stock. Not particularly interested in the P320 as I'm comfortable with the G19 and my G17 is an MOS, don't need another pistol/optic platform...

 

[drgrant]

I don't keep anything stock, but that isn't because there is something "wrong". I like to tinker. I also think, at least in the case of Glock, there is a ton of low-hanging fruit in terms of "improvements" from stock. Glock is lazy. They have been using the same crappy sights for decades. Are you seriously telling us that you think stock Glock white U sights are the most effective in 2020 or just very cheap to go along with a simple, reliable, inexpensive (everywhere but MA) polymer handgun? Same goes for the plastic recoil springs, trigger, etc.

Sig offers night sights on every model. Sig offers better triggers on their up-market models. Glock is like Ford, you can get any color you want as long as it's black... with a crappy trigger and cheap sights

FWIW, I own a Sig 220, Glock 19 and Glock 17. My EDC is a Glock 19 Gen3... not stock. Not particularly interested in the P320 as I'm comfortable with the G19 and my G17 is an MOS, don't need another pistol/optic platform...

I'm not a big P365 fornicator type like the rest of the world is, but I can agree that if I bought one I would just leave it alone, they put reasonably OK sights on it and the trigger is OK out of the
box. Every glock I buy, by the time I get done with it is a $750-850 gun, and thats without paying an MA retard price for the base gun. And I don't put any ZEV bullshit or any of that gucci garbage in my Glocks, either. Change sights to trij HD. OCC trigger. (basically fundamentally OEM, but way better) 3.5 minus connector. OEM ext slide lock. DONE.

Plastic recoil springs? Plastic trigger? If you're f***ing around with that stuff in a Glock too much you have a few screws loose. That's how you quickly get into f***ed up gun
territory. Blech. Those are the same people who change striker springs. Blech. Hell some of my other guns like my EDC, I only have the connector changed and cheaper replacement sights on them.