Garand question

usp45ct

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I recently picked up a M1 and I love it. Feels great. When I shoot it though, I get a failure to fire on about 2 rounds in a clip. Pretty clean looking hit on the primer but she no go bang. After I am done, I load the rounds in one at a time and they fire fine.

I did take it apart prior to firing it to clean it, so I am pretty sure it was not dirty.


Any hints or constructive criticism is welcome
 
I'd start with trying a different enbloc clip (something without a lot of parkerizing), making sure the bolt locking lugs and receiver lug channels are clean and have no burrs, checking bolt headspacing and checking for op-rod spring length (19.0" min.) and condition (I always re-spring a new-to-me Garand.) Also, check firing pin protrusion: .044" min., .059" max.

~Enbloc
 
Failure to fire could be as simple ad a worn firing pin , hammer spring
Worse case is excessive headspace

Another would be the bolt not going into battery all the way and the bridge safety is doing its job.
With any new to me garand that I plan to shoot I pick up a spring kit and bolt rebuild kit from Orion 7
Headspace check is a plus also.
Inspect bolt lugs for ecessive or uneven wear

Is the failure to fire with all ammo or particular brand?

Here is a simple diag guide
M1 Garand Troubleshooting
 
I have a set of .30-06 headspace gauges I can loan you.
I'll even pay the shipping to you.
When I got my Garand from the CMP the first things I replaced were the hammer spring and the recoil spring.
If you haven't already, remove the firing pin and clean out the firing pin channel.
 
Since the OP said that there is a pretty clean looking hit on the primer I would concentrate on the firing pin protrusion (or overall firing pin length of 3.770” if you have trouble measuring the protrusion), making sure the firing pin channel is clear and free and that the hammer spring is good. If you're using any Mil surplus ammo it will have a very hard primer and you’ll need a strong hammer spring. I agree that any new to me Garand gets a full spring kit.
 
Get a spring kit and replace all your springs first. But I'm curious about the ammo you're using. Is it commercial, surplus or reloads??
 
I just ordered a spring kit from Fulton Armory. I will check that before the headspacing. Thanks for the feedback.
 
I think it is PPU ammo so I am not sure about reliability. I will try to find some decent ammo at KTP this week perhaps. Any better places around Dover NH for ammo?
PPU M2 is good stuff. PPU overall is good ammo.
I have shot a lot of it and the price is usually very good.
 
I had a problem with my Garand that sounds very similar. For me it was the operating rod spring. Wasn't stripping off next round and sometimes a light primer strike.

Has been running like a champ for years after that was changed. When I compared the old and new spring there was a big difference.

Since you have ordered a spring set, I am sure you will figure it out.

You could measure your spring strength by putting your thumb in there and letting the bolt slam shut. If it hurts replace. If it really hurts, spring ok. /s
 
I recently picked up a M1 and I love it. Feels great. When I shoot it though, I get a failure to fire on about 2 rounds in a clip. Pretty clean looking hit on the primer but she no go bang. After I am done, I load the rounds in one at a time and they fire fine.

I did take it apart prior to firing it to clean it, so I am pretty sure it was not dirty.


Any hints or constructive criticism is welcome
Let us know if it shoots any better after new springs.

Accuracy Improvement of HRA with spring replacement ?
 
I had a problem with my Garand that sounds very similar. For me it was the operating rod spring. Wasn't stripping off next round and sometimes a light primer strike.

Has been running like a champ for years after that was changed. When I compared the old and new spring there was a big difference.

Since you have ordered a spring set, I am sure you will figure it out.

You could measure your spring strength by putting your thumb in there and letting the bolt slam shut. If it hurts replace. If it really hurts, spring ok. /s

Don’t threaten me with a good time.
[rofl]
 
Ok. So I finally went to the ranger after doing spring swap. I guess Fulton has a spring package and it worked out great. Bought 10 enbloc clips as well. Everything went well.

My question now...what is reasonable at 100 yards and iron sights on a 70 + year old gun and off the shelf ammo? While I don’t see me doing MOA from a seated unsupported, seems like 24 within 4 inches is OK. Is that right?
 
Seems OK to me, but then I’m a terrible shoto_O. An M1 off the production line was supposed to be capable of better than 3 MOA (3 in. at 100 Yards). Some CMP rifles have been know to do 1.5 to 2 MOA; some accurized Garands can do 1 MOA. My CMP Special Garands with the new production Criterion barrel are definitely more accurate than my service grade. The new barrel can make a big difference, depending on the condition of your current barrel. If you’re dealing with a field grade with a fairly worn barrel, I would think 4 MOA would be pretty good.
 
Seems OK to me, but then I’m a terrible shoto_O. An M1 off the production line was supposed to be capable of better than 3 MOA (3 in. at 100 Yards). Some CMP rifles have been know to do 1.5 to 2 MOA; some accurized Garands can do 1 MOA. My CMP Special Garands with the new production Criterion barrel are definitely more accurate than my service grade. The new barrel can make a big difference, depending on the condition of your current barrel. If you’re dealing with a field grade with a fairly worn barrel, I would think 4 MOA would be pretty good.


Thanks for the feedback. That was exactly the information I was looking for.
 
Ok. So I finally went to the ranger after doing spring swap. I guess Fulton has a spring package and it worked out great. Bought 10 enbloc clips as well. Everything went well.

My question now...what is reasonable at 100 yards and iron sights on a 70 + year old gun and off the shelf ammo? While I don’t see me doing MOA from a seated unsupported, seems like 24 within 4 inches is OK. Is that right?
Depends a little on the Mk. 1 eyeball peering through the irons. These days,
it seems that mine aren't working at their historical highpoint presently.
Going to consider the Mk. 2 variant.
 
4" group with a non-accurized Garand is reasonable. With some work on both the rifle and your shooting you could squeeze that in a bit. I think the most anyone can expect shooting match ammo via a match prepped M1 and iron sights will be ~1.5 MOA under ideal conditions. If anyone thinks they can do better, post the target.
 
Thanks all, this is the information I was looking for. This gun amazes the shit out of me. How a 70 yo gun can be shooting like this. I am sure I can get it in a little. I don’t see me going to match prep as I enjoy the character of the one I have. I would consider another post WWII and making it match capable.
 
Thanks all, this is the information I was looking for. This gun amazes the shit out of me. How a 70 yo gun can be shooting like this. I am sure I can get it in a little. I don’t see me going to match prep as I enjoy the character of the one I have. I would consider another post WWII and making it match capable.

If you ended up with a mostly matching M1, it's good to keep as-is. Very rarely are they all original, but it could be as-is from an arsenal rebuild many moons ago.

A good way to go for a match build is to get a Field Grade from CMP, $650. The one at bottom was in pretty rough shape but it was just an organ donor, mainly for the receiver. It's a WWII receiver but had a few light pits along one edge. It was built by a pro to be as-issued CMP match legal, and any parts to be recycled were cleaned up and re-parkerized. It has a higher end Krieger barrel with a fairly tight chamber. One above it I built myself is just as if not more accurate but it's not as-issued. I used some National Match parts and applied some other accurizing tricks, plus it has been rebarreled as a .308.

SUyHOItl.jpg


You need to post pics of yours, in all its battle worn glory.
 
Seems OK to me, but then I’m a terrible shoto_O. An M1 off the production line was supposed to be capable of better than 3 MOA (3 in. at 100 Yards). Some CMP rifles have been know to do 1.5 to 2 MOA; some accurized Garands can do 1 MOA. My CMP Special Garands with the new production Criterion barrel are definitely more accurate than my service grade. The new barrel can make a big difference, depending on the condition of your current barrel. If you’re dealing with a field grade with a fairly worn barrel, I would think 4 MOA would be pretty good.
garands new off the production line where not held to a high standard of accuracy. Was not 3 moa for one thing the ammo M1 or M2 ball was not held to a high accuracy standard either. Basically M2 ball average mean radius was 7.5" at 600 yards or roughly 2.5 moa... now you can play with the group size averages to see how big or small the group combos can be. You could have groups that shoot 3" groups at 600 yards and groups that shoot 20" at 600 yards but if the groups average out to 15 or less that lot is gtg.....


The National Match M1 garands produced by springfield and the service branch shops in a nut shell at the end of production had to hold 3.1" at 100 yards shot from a testing device. The group numbers and shots per group changed over the course of the M1 NM rifle

Your off the shelf M1 tested at the arsenal had to hold 5 shots (after a 3 shot warm up) to 1.77" at 1000" ..then consider that only the best lots of M2 ball lots where set aside for testing.

or about 6.1moa or minute of black of a NRA/CMP high power targets.
 
4" group with a non-accurized Garand is reasonable. With some work on both the rifle and your shooting you could squeeze that in a bit. I think the most anyone can expect shooting match ammo via a match prepped M1 and iron sights will be ~1.5 MOA under ideal conditions. If anyone thinks they can do better, post the target.
if they ...I mean the shooter and the gun/ammo can do 1.5moa or better all the time head to the nationals and clean house!
 
Ok. So I finally went to the ranger after doing spring swap. I guess Fulton has a spring package and it worked out great. Bought 10 enbloc clips as well. Everything went well.

My question now...what is reasonable at 100 yards and iron sights on a 70 + year old gun and off the shelf ammo? While I don’t see me doing MOA from a seated unsupported, seems like 24 within 4 inches is OK. Is that right?
4" at 100 yards with a Garand sitting with no support is very good....especially since we have no idea what M1 you have. CMP service grade, some old guys ex match rifle?
Just keep in mind the SR target used at 200 yards has a 3 moa/6" 10 ring and a 13" 9 ring or aiming black. so you would be landing shots in the 90% range.....well until you get to off hand. The destroyer of good prone/sitting scores.
 
if they ...I mean the shooter and the gun/ammo can do 1.5moa or better all the time head to the nationals and clean house!

Yep. If I can post a target better than 1.5 MOA, even shooting well supported from bench with zero wind, it would be sheer luck even through the Krieger barrel. I would seriously doubt anyone claiming to shoot 1 MOA with a CMP legal Garand. I doubt it's possible with iron sights and probably not even with a scope. 'Seriously doubt' is a nice way of saying it would be complete BS.

Again, 4" group is fine.
 
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