Gathering Rifle Dope

[Sawicki1991]

Looking to get into the Long range game now that Granby has the 1k I'm in the final steps of finishing my 6.5 Grendel and need to figure out how to gather Dope for 1k with out actually being allowed to shoot the 1k. Is 300 yards long enough to get the information I need to make the shot. Should I be zeroing in at 100 or stretch out to 200. Im consistently hitting the 350 steel with using 2 MOA of hold over on the reticle but I know 1k is a much bigger beast then 350

 

[Dan S]

I would zero your rifle in at the longest distance you have available. Accurate velocity of the load in YOUR rifle will be needed. Ballistic programs like JBM will be invaluable.

 

[SJan]

I'm no expert in long range shooting, and I know little of the 6.5 Grendel. I would start with chronographing your load in your barrel so you have an accurate muzzle velocity to enter into a ballistic calculator. Then select a zero distance that makes sense with your projectiles trajectory and your sight over bore height.


Edit: Dan beat me to it. and I'm sure he knows more than I on this topic

 

[bigblue]

Looking to get into the Long range game now that Granby has the 1k I'm in the final steps of finishing my 6.5 Grendel and need to figure out how to gather Dope for 1k with out actually being allowed to shoot the 1k. Is 300 yards long enough to get the information I need to make the shot. Should I be zeroing in at 100 or stretch out to 200. Im consistently hitting the 350 steel with using 2 MOA of hold over on the reticle but I know 1k is a much bigger beast then 350

To hit steel at 1,000 you need to be under MOA at 100. Zero it at 200 and you will be fine at 1,000 as far as drop. You are better off getting a reliable zero and practicing trigger pull than you are trying to zero it at 300. IMO.

6.5 Grendel 140 gr at 2500 FPS is going to drop ~400" at 1,000 yards based on a quick dirty check.

 

[josh2600]

You don't really gather much as far as dope until you can actually shoot out there, once you get out there, you'll be close, then you start recording the data that gets you dead on. Just get your velocity and a good ballistic program ( I like Ballistic AE ), make sure the rest of your input data is good and you should be g2g.

Doing a scope tracking test beforehand isn't a bad idea to verify the values indicated on the turret.

 

[Sawicki1991]

To hit steel at 1,000 you need to be under MOA at 100. Zero it at 200 and you will be fine at 1,000 as far as drop. You are better off getting a reliable zero and practicing trigger pull than you are trying to zero it at 300. IMO.

6.5 Grendel 140 gr at 2500 FPS is going to drop ~400" at 1,000 yards based on a quick dirty check.

As of now with my standard lower I'm getting 3/4-7/8 groups. My lower I'm building will have a much nicer trigger so these groups should tighten up even more. I'm thinking I might need a different scope mount because as it sits the scope has 40 MOA of adjustment and From my math I'm going to need just about 40MOA.

 

[mac1911]

You don't really gather much as far as dope until you can actually shoot out there, once you get out there, you'll be close, then you start recording the data that gets you dead on. Just get your velocity and a good ballistic program ( I like Ballistic AE ), make sure the rest of your input data is good and you should be g2g.

Doing a scope tracking test beforehand isn't a bad idea to verify the values indicated on the turret.

This also, I have a Leopold that holds zero like there's no tomorrow but if you dial up or down more than five minutes or so the windage goes left/up right down.
It's not a big deal as the scope sits on a hunting rifle zeroed at 2" high @ 100 yards which is minute of vital zone out to about 275 yards.

Any how you could do a turret test at 200 yards/zero. ..... dial up 40moa and you should hit about 42" from point of aim...at least see what your scope will do.

I only have a little experience with 600 yards with 223 and iron sights but I at least had rough come ups by doing the same thing...

Also I will tell you my sub MOA AR , me and my scope/gun failed first time out to 600 yards? Still trying to figure out that mess?

 

[bigblue]

As of now with my standard lower I'm getting 3/4-7/8 groups. My lower I'm building will have a much nicer trigger so these groups should tighten up even more. I'm thinking I might need a different scope mount because as it sits the scope has 40 MOA of adjustment and From my math I'm going to need just about 40MOA.

The SWFA scope that I use has 30+ MIL of adjustment so luckily I don't use an angle rail. Your drop jives with the rough calc I did above: 11 MIL or so.

Josh is right as far as recording the shooting you do to get a good grasp of your rifle.

 

[Sawicki1991]

Great info guys. I haven't punched paper out past 100 yet but was ringing a silhouette at 350. Im happy to hear I can gather the info I need at 100. I will zero at 200 next chance I get seeing how ZERO at 200 is only 2.3" high at 100. What data should I look to record. Wind, temp, altitude. is there anything im missing.

 

[bigblue]

Feet. Per. Second.

A good ballistic calc for your phone.


Accurate BC models for the bullets you are using.

 

[PatMcD]

Grendel is a little sluggish for 1000 yards. It will get there, but the wind will have is way with the bullet all the way out there. You are going to need to be an exceptional wind reader.

 

[josh2600]

Grendel is a little sluggish for 1000 yards. It will get there, but the wind will have is way with the bullet all the way out there. You are going to need to be an exceptional wind reader.

If you're just looking to have fun, you can go to granby and shoot 4, 6, 800 too. Its not like 1k is your only option.

If you later then feel like you need a better round you can get an upper in 6.5 creedmoor or a boltgun in the same. (6mm is a viable option too).

(speaking to op, not you obv pat)

 

[bigblue]

Curious about options in a 6.5C upper now that you bring it up. What style lower would that use?

Links? [emoji51]

 

[Sawicki1991]

6.5 Creedmoor would use a ar10 Lower. Im not planning on spending all my time at 1000. 600 Sounds like more of my flavor but having the option of hitting the 1k is my goal with the AR.

 

[76Too]

Sterling app is free and has a lot of reticles to choose from.

 

[josh2600]

http://www.6mmar.com/

jus sayin.

EDIT: Actually just saw this here : http://www.alexanderarms.com/products/65-grendel

"Shooting a 123-grain Lapua Scenar with a ballistic coefficient of .547 and a muzzle velocity of 2,600 FPS delivers outstanding accuracy out to 1,200 yards. At 600 yards, tennis ball size targets are no match for this flat-shooting round. For extreme accuracy, formidable terminal ballistics and long range applications, the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms is unbeatable."

Obviously they're going to be speaking highly of a caliber they sell, but still if they're saying hits at 12, you may be in decent shape at 1k. That does seem slow for the round though, my 260 would throw that at over 3k. ( I know zilch about the grendel obv )

 

[Sawicki1991]

http://www.6mmar.com/

jus sayin.

EDIT: Actually just saw this here : http://www.alexanderarms.com/products/65-grendel

"Shooting a 123-grain Lapua Scenar with a ballistic coefficient of .547 and a muzzle velocity of 2,600 FPS delivers outstanding accuracy out to 1,200 yards. At 600 yards, tennis ball size targets are no match for this flat-shooting round. For extreme accuracy, formidable terminal ballistics and long range applications, the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms is unbeatable."

Obviously they're going to be speaking highly of a caliber they sell, but still if they're saying hits at 12, you may be in decent shape at 1k. That does seem slow for the round though, my 260 would throw that at over 3k. ( I know zilch about the grendel obv )

From everything iv read the Grendel can handle shooting 1k easily. I got my upper with a 24" match barrel just go this reason. Im more then happy with using my 556 at 350. 1K with the Grendel will be my goal over the next year.

 

[PatMcD]

http://www.6mmar.com/

jus sayin.

EDIT: Actually just saw this here : http://www.alexanderarms.com/products/65-grendel

"Shooting a 123-grain Lapua Scenar with a ballistic coefficient of .547 and a muzzle velocity of 2,600 FPS delivers outstanding accuracy out to 1,200 yards. At 600 yards, tennis ball size targets are no match for this flat-shooting round. For extreme accuracy, formidable terminal ballistics and long range applications, the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms is unbeatable."

Obviously they're going to be speaking highly of a caliber they sell, but still if they're saying hits at 12, you may be in decent shape at 1k. That does seem slow for the round though, my 260 would throw that at over 3k. ( I know zilch about the grendel obv )

That's quite a sales pitch they have there. I believe the cows already out of the barn as the Grendel is what the op has, but it's not at all ideal for shooting long range.

For use on a standard lower, the 6Hagar or Tomahawk are better suited. Not going to find factory ammo though.

 

[josh2600]

From everything iv read the Grendel can handle shooting 1k easily. I got my upper with a 24" match barrel just go this reason. Im more then happy with using my 556 at 350. 1K with the Grendel will be my goal over the next year.

You'll get it the first time you go out, I'd almost guarantee it. Assuming Lawrence or Nick or someone decent spots for you for corrections. It will just be a matter of difficulty achieving consistency. 6.5 bucks wind real well, but you're almost transonic by the time you get to a thousand, that's a lot of time for the wind to wreak havoc. Granby has some lovely crosswinds Ask Blue.

- - - Updated - - -

That's quite a sales pitch they have there. I believe the cows already out of the barn as the Grendel is what the op has, but it's not at all ideal for shooting long range.

For use on a standard lower, the 6Hagar or Tomahawk are better suited. Not going to find factory ammo though.

Yea, that hagar is an interesting round, I didn't even know about it til I came across that link I posted.

 

[bigblue]

Two opposing cross winds and a tail wind. You need a really special, hot and heavy round to make it that far. You really do. I know it looks good on paper but the wind could easily shift your POI ten feet. Ask me how I know.

 

[Sawicki1991]

Two opposing cross winds and a tail wind. You need a really special, hot and heavy round to make it that far. You really do. I know it looks good on paper but the wind could easily shift your POI ten feet. Ask me how I know.

The wind there is hard. I can see it when im shooting the 350 with my 17HMR. On a nice calm day I can dial it in and make hits 1 after another on a windy day im lucky if I get 2 or 3 out of 10

 

[bigblue]

The wind there is hard. I can see it when im shooting the 350 with my 17HMR. On a nice calm day I can dial it in and make hits 1 after another on a windy day im lucky if I get 2 or 3 out of 10

I guess what I'm bringing up is that you don't see the second cross wind and the tail wind when shooting down there. It's very complicated and I had Lawrence spotting for me. Wind calls with a light, slow bullet are tough shooting on the hill to 1,000.

 

[Sawicki1991]

I guess what I'm bringing up is that you don't see the second cross wind and the tail wind when shooting down there. It's very complicated and I had Lawrence spotting for me. Wind calls with a light, slow bullet are tough shooting on the hill to 1,000.

Does the wind usually stay constant. How many shots do you guys usually take to land a hit.

 

[bigblue]

Does the wind usually stay constant. How many shots do you guys usually take to land a hit.

The tailwind died and I was off by ten feet.

At 700y I hit 7 of 9. At 1,000y it took 5 shots to get on target. I shanked two (by 3') and the wind kept changing so I was a foot off here or there. In reality, I held 2-3 MIL at 1,000. That was my first time shooting over 300 yards.

I can do better: I have since developed loads specifically for 1,000 and practiced my trigger pull.

You know, it's funny: Shanking one at 1,000 yard throws it off 2-3' where that might be an inch or two at 100y. It's tough and mistakes aren't forgiving.

 

[Sawicki1991]

The tailwind died and I was off by ten feet.

At 700y I hit 7 of 9. At 1,000y it took 5 shots to get on target. I shanked two (by 3') and the wind kept changing so I was a foot off here or there. In reality, I held 2-3 MIL at 1,000. That was my first time shooting over 300 yards.

I can do better: I have since developed loads specifically for 1,000 and practiced my trigger pull.

For the class what do I need to bring with me. Im just like you never shot past the 300 yard range.

 

[josh2600]

For the class what do I need to bring with me. Im just like you never shot past the 300 yard range.

Gun, your ammo, bipod or front support, rear bag, phone w/ballistics software you understand how to use. Shooting mat is def. good to have there. Any data you do have, be it reloading data or ballistics stuff you have thus far.

 

[Sawicki1991]

Gun, your ammo, bipod or front support, rear bag, phone w/ballistics software you understand how to use. Shooting mat is def. good to have there....

What do you tend to use for a mat.

 

[josh2600]

What do you tend to use for a mat.

I bought some tactical something or other on amazon for 40$ or so but I've seen people on like big peices of scrap rubber up there lol. It is rough and rocky up top so however comfortable you want to make yourself is what to spend on a mat.

I was going to just buy a camping mat at walmart but they were like 20 so i said f it cuz for a little more i could get an actual shooting mat.

Me and blue had to shoot prone for our quals, but they have one really nice bench up top now, I don't know what the policy is on using that to qualify?

 

[josh2600]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00G...ooting+mat&dpPl=1&dpID=41V38cVnW9L&ref=plSrch

Thats the mat i have, i cant say i love it but it works fine.

 

[bigblue]

You need a good quality spotting scope.
Clear scope with acceptable adjustments and reticle.
Ballistic calculator programmed with your load. I use shooter with both G1 & G7 solutions.
Rifle and load capable of staying above transonic at 1,000 yards.
I would say 30-50 rounds of that load to start at 300 and progress through the targets to 1,000.

Am I missing anything Josh?