Gathering Rifle Dope

[josh2600]

You need a good quality spotting scope.
Clear scope with acceptable adjustments and reticle.
Ballistic calculator. I use shooter.
Rifle and load capable of staying above transonic at 1,000 yards.
I would say 30-50 rounds of that load to start at 300 and progress through the targets to 1,000.

Am I missing anything Josh?

I didn't need a spotting scope, did you? Its def something to have but Lawrence had one when I went. I only mention that because its a pretty big expense if he doesn't have one already. Hell, I still dont have one, anytime someone spots me they've been on a gun.

I would just add front/rear support to your list.

 

[Sawicki1991]

Yeah any quality scope is out of my budget right now. Im shooting factory hornady loads until I get myself a press. Iv got nice front and rear bags that will do me just fine.

 

[bigblue]

I didn't need a spotting scope, did you? Its def something to have but Lawrence had one when I went. I only mention that because its a pretty big expense if he doesn't have one already. Hell, I still dont have one, anytime someone spots me they've been on a gun.

I would just add front/rear support to your list.

Lawrence spotted on his rifle, my buddy spotted on my spotting scope. I wouldn't shoot at 1,000 alone: I think you really should have a spotter.

Is it 100% necessary with a high end, high mag scope and big rounds? No I guess not but with a medium quality scope and small rounds you are going to struggle to see impacts and dope properly. With the spotting scope we could see the contrail and track ground impacts to walk into the target. I'm pretty sure Lawrence has it on his list of required equipment, especially for a caliber that is barely making it to 1,000.


What do you have for a rifle scope? (Both of you)

My rifle scope is an SWFA 3-15 which is very clear but it's not a Nightforce and it isn't 24x. My spotting scope is a 60x 100mm Celestron and it really does come in handy at long range. $0.02 but ask Lawrence first, I think Josh's rifle setup is quite a bit better than we are talking about here.

 

[josh2600]

6-24x50 vortex pst

Shooting at 1k alone is tough even with that scope. I can see the plate move if I hit, that's about it. If the wind is right, you may hear a very faint ding. Shooting at 750 (which is currently not shootable at granby for the time being) is very doable, can see it hit, nice clear ding etc.

 

[Sawicki1991]

6-24x50 vortex pst

Shooting at 1k alone is tough even with that scope. I can see the plate move if I hit, that's about it. If the wind is right, you may hear a very faint ding. Shooting at 750 (which is currently not shootable at granby for the time being) is very doable, can see it hit, nice clear ding etc.

I have the same scope as well.

 

[josh2600]

I have the same scope as well.

Check with Lawrence but I think you're good, at least to qualify. You don't NEED to hit at 1k to get qualified, it's really about demonstrating a good understanding of bullet drop so they know you're not throwing rounds out of the range.

 

[jhblaze1]

Couldn't you just use any ballistics calc for your load and voila instant dope?

If you know drop and drift just convert inches to MOA or LIL and print it on anew index card.

If your 0 at 200 yds you should know know how many MOA to dial up for a 1k shot based on readily available ballistics data no? Maybe just confirm MV with a chrono and good to go?

Or am I underthinking something here?

 

[Sawicki1991]

Check with Lawrence but I think you're good, at least to qualify. You don't NEED to hit at 1k to get qualified, it's really about demonstrating a good understanding of bullet drop so they know you're not throwing rounds out of the range.

Its good to know that I don't need to make hit. 600 is where id like to play and spend my time.

 

[josh2600]

It doesn't matter in regard to qualifying but is your viper pst ffp or sfp?

 

[Sawicki1991]

It doesn't matter in regard to qualifying but is your viper pst ffp or sfp?

Second focal plane. For the mil dots to be correct it needs to be at 18 power

 

[bigblue]

Couldn't you just use any ballistics calc for your load and voila instant dope?

If you know drop and drift just convert inches to MOA or LIL and print it on anew index card.

If your 0 at 200 yds you should know know how many MOA to dial up for a 1k shot based on readily available ballistics data no? Maybe just confirm MV with a chrono and good to go?

Or am I underthinking something here?

In a word: Wind.


At 1,000 yards the bullet is in flight roughly 3 seconds. Many things come into play during that time: air pressure, wind, humidity, spin of the earth, spin of the bullet, etc.

Ballistic calculators are a great place to start. Do you use a G1 or a G7 model? What temp was your muzzle velocity measured at? What were the atmospheric conditions? What are they now?

1% difference at 100 yards is tiny; at 1,000 yards it is obviously more, to state the obvious.

 

[jhblaze1]

In a word: Wind.


At 1,000 yards the bullet is in flight roughly 3 seconds. Many things come into play during that time: air pressure, wind, humidity, spin of the earth, spin of the bullet, etc.

Ballistic calculators are a great place to start. Do you use a G1 or a G7 model? What temp was your muzzle velocity measured at? What were the atmospheric conditions? What are they now?

1% difference at 100 yards is tiny; at 1,000 yards it is obviously more, to state the obvious.

Understood. But wouldn't any dopes card have to make some assumptions? You could make one with 3 wimdspeeds with moa adjustments for each no? Maybe make a handful of cards for different altitudes and atmospheric conditions and choose the one most similar to your shooting situation?

 

[bigblue]

Understood. But wouldn't any dopes card have to make some assumptions? You could make one with 3 wimdspeeds with moa adjustments for each no? Maybe make a handful of cards for different altitudes and atmospheric conditions and choose the one most similar to your shooting situation?

Assuming the winds were known and predictable you could do that. At Granby, there is one crosswind at about 2-300 yards and an opposing crosswind around 600 yards. That is in addition to a ~10 mph tailwind from about 160 degrees when I shot. Winds are variable, three winds...

I started a thread about data books, something I intend to start using. Recording the effect of these winds over time, seasons, etc. Would give me more data points to create the kind of cards you are talking about. Essentially what you are suggesting is writing down the sum of your experiences.

ETA My understanding of a dope card is that it is more useful under stable conditions. Gusting or variable tailwinds make it very difficult to have a stable "come up". For example, when the tailwind died, my POI was short 1 MIL.

 

[Admin]

Having and maintaining a databook is critical to long range consistency IMO.