Not only did I not call anyone a coward I was very clear that I think people should make decisions based on the situation at hand, which is far different from having the unconditional priority of getting home safe.
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Gentle reminder. A duty to carry.
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Not only did I not call anyone a coward I was very clear that I think people should make decisions based on the situation at hand, which is far different from having the unconditional priority of getting home safe.
Not necessarily. Good choice of words! Doesn't mean it wasn't in fact either...![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I would agree. My actions would be different if I were alone, that is unless I'm trying to use a pistol in a rifle fight (Snackbars). Nope, it aint the movies and it aint working.
Indeed. I would think whether you have the ability to effectively do something to stop the threat/save others would be a key factor in your decision making. Sadly it appears this is not any factor in the decision making of some, because the only factor is them getting home safely. Some people are willing to sacrifice more than others. Some aren't willing to even risk sacrificing anything. Fortunately there exists lots of people who would and have risked their own safety for others.
bigbravehog
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Summer/Winter with the Shield 40 works for me.
Yep! One example I specifically pointed to. Thank goodness they didn't hold the same view as many posting in this thread.
awfully hard to swing a rifle around on a train, but they did have numbers on their side. only one dude who took the snackbar on was shot, the first guy. fortunately that wasn't fatal.
comparing my choose your own adventure to the train is also apples and oranges. there's no escape from that train so you've got two options... one being to sit back and die, the other is to attempt to neutralize the threat. can't just jump out of the moving train. well, i mean you could but that would carry its own kind of suck.
comparing my choose your own adventure to the train is also apples and oranges. there's no escape from that train so you've got two options... one being to sit back and die, the other is to attempt to neutralize the threat. can't just jump out of the moving train. well, i mean you could but that would carry its own kind of suck.
Exactly. But nobody has a duty to do anything! Remember, only 16% of the populace was on board to defeat the king. The rest hid in their root cellars.
The point is that situations are not all the same...![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
you're right. i just wanted to play. i'm waiting on a call and babysitting a printer. weak.
if the choice is me getting home to my wife and 6 month old son or playing hero to save someone else who can't even be bothered with self defense, it's a pretty easy choice.
My ability to help AND what I see the odds of success to be would both factor in but regardless of ability the odds would have to be very very high of success for me to consider intervening.
Now if I was single and not a new parent, I like to think I'd be much more likely to help.
The reality though is, until you're actually in the situation, a situation which is likely to unfold very rapidly and be very dynamic, no one really knows what they'd do.
pop quiz hot shot:
you're at the mall.
the pop pop blat blat of a gat, a kalashnigat specifically rings out in the food court.
you're checking out the latest and greatest 5.11 pants in dick's. you have on you a dull knife, a glock 26, and one spare mag full of lint. that's a total of 21 rounds.
you have your wife and small child with you, the exit of the store is less than 50 yards away, the food court is 200+ yards away.
what do you do?
Plot twist.
The guy in the food court is the distraction. Their are armed terrorists outside of all the exits. If you run out away from the gunfire, you and your family is captured and killed.
Had you ran toward the gunfire, by the time you got their Mr. Dirka dirka is out of ammo, allowing you to neutralize him. In the mean time police have responded and the terrorists outside the mall have fled. You survive.
These hypothetical are an interesting mental exercise, but that is about it.
SteelShooter
NES Member
Much different scenario and I think when you have no where else to go and are stuck on a train, the only option is to attack and try to stop the shooter, not because you are a hero but because you have no other option and most likely the shooter will eventually get to you. I think most everyone here would probably have tried the same thing in the same situation.
Totally agree. Lots of different factors that must be weighed. It would behoove of you to weigh them all. And that is my point. And I hope everyone would. I'm not confident that is the case at all though. Not even in a hypothetical nevertheless a real life situation.
The facts of the situation would seem to show that to not be the case. When faced with an armed gunman only a couple people did anything, while the rest did nothing. While had the train been full of NESers and not tourists and Europeans, it is probably true, more would have acted, but not all. And I have no problem labeling the four who did in fact act as heroes.
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you're giving the local PD a whole lot of credit here.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
There was prior intel and it is the feds and multiple PD's who responded.
Their was prior intel and it is the feds and multiple PD's who responded.
fair 'nuff.Comparing situations with different levels of exigency and "participation" is just a little retarded. It's a lot easier to justify doing something when the "situation drives only one possible rational decision". For example if you see a guy walk past you in a train car with an AK and he hasn't started shooting yet, and hes mumbling durka shit, yeah, I'm going to tackle the ****ing dude, or something, because if I don't, he's probably going to kill us all anyways. I would bet anything that rushed through at least one of those guys minds, not any of this "and so wah lah, we have a duty to protect innocent people blah blah blah, hokum maudlin crap, blah." There was no "choice" to be made by those 3 guys, nor was there any time to hem and haw over making a decision. The decision tree was probably something like:
"allah snackbarRRRRRRRR!" (guy appears in train clumsily charging his AKM)
"WTF, DURKA!"
A. Do nothing, probably die
B. **** this guy up, maybe live
-Mike
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SteelShooter
NES Member
Agree, heroic no doubt. Certainly the self help mentality is not very prevalent in most of the EU, they have been taught that if you defend yourself, even in your home, it's bad. I think that was probably why no one else jumped in.
Again, it's not a direct comparison and thinking it is misses the point.
This also misses the point. Almost no situation drives only ONE possible decision. Whether rational or not isn't relevant since we know not everybody always acts rationally when you look back on things.
For example, you can give up your life and that of your families to save a hundred other people. What do you do? I think people who choose to save themselves and their families AND people who sacrifice themselves for the others could be considered rational decisions. There is always a choice.
Their was clearly a choice, which is why only 4 people acted while the rest did nothing. Because those 4 made a choice to act, the others made the choice not to. Reality doesn't support your contention. In fact it shows that the majority of people did not do what YOU think is the only choice. I agree with you about that choice. Though clearly when it came down to it, not everybody felt the same way.
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