Glocks fail to go boom (pic heavy)

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Now that I have the attention of haters and fanboys alike, I would like to lay upon you this lovely turd of knowledge I managed to acquire at the range today.

This doesn't apply to those of us here that live in a state where an individual can be trusted to own a standard capacity magazine. However, if you live behind the iron curtain and choose to carry a Glock with cripple mags, pay attention.

I'll start by saying that I have been carrying a Gen4 G17 for quite some time. As a defensive handgun, I trust it with my life. I have run over ten thousand rounds through this particular handgun, used it during two different courses (1500-2000 rounds each), and practice with it almost every week. I mention this only so that I can pretend to know what I am talking about on the internet.

Just recently I picked up a Gen4 G19 because I wanted a gun I could carry with a little more comfort without having to change platforms. It came with 3 brand new MA compliant 10 round magazines. I have never used 10 round mags in my G17 so this was my first experience with them.

Before deciding to carry a gun I make sure to test everything thoroughly, testing every mag with hundreds of rounds. If you don't make a point to do this, well then you're a moron. It is even more important that you make a point to run your gun with the self defense ammunition you intend to carry.

A friend of mine over the years has been testing various hollow points in an expansion test using water and a box full of dry wall to catch the rounds for comparison. Through his testing he has concluded that Federal HST hollow points are one of the best rounds on the market in a variety of different calibers. After learning that the hollow points I have been carrying perform poorly, I decided to test these rounds as a new replacement for my new gun.

As I have not had a chance yet to pick up some standard capacity mags for my G19 yet, I give you the following:

On the top you have a neutered, anger inducing, retard mag. On the bottom you have a standard mag. Be sure to note the difference in follower design.

IMG_20121216_154253_zps24eb9b5e.jpg


Front - abortion mag, rear - standard mag.

IMG_20121216_154302_zps70ef0cb9.jpg


Left - tard, right - standard.

IMG_20121216_154329_zpse369f898.jpg


Front - tard, rear - standard. Pay special attention to the cant of the round.

IMG_20121216_154343_zps79c2083c.jpg


I believe this shot illustrates the added room necessary in the magazine for the chode of MA law to **** you in the ass.

IMG_20121216_154406_zps79426391.jpg


Lets begin:

For your viewing pleasure I give to you 3 different Glock G19s with 3 different dumb shit MA does this to protect you mags. Two Gen4 G19s and a Gen3 G19c. All three guns will be loaded with a different cripple mag (all from different owners) and a round of Federal HST. I apologize for the poor video quality, but you will get the point.



Next video shows loading a tard mag with a round, then loading that same round into a standard mag.



Using the standard mags we ran into ZERO malfunctions using any of the hollow points we had on hand.

IMG_20121216_155737_zpsd35307cd.jpg


It is also important to point out that one of the tests was run with Gold Dot hollow points (a pretty common cartridge) with the same results. Didn't matter how many rounds were loaded into the mags, full, one, didn't matter.

The reason for the EXTREMELY RELIABLE malfunctions is a result of the follower used in the cripple mags. They are in no way the same. The followers used in standard mags are anti-tilt while the 10 rounders are not. As the slide pushes the round into the feed ramp, it takes a nose dive and slaps directly into the base of the ramp.

IMG_20121216_154708_zpsbee85ebd.jpg


IMG_20121216_154721_zpse9e20cc8.jpg


IMG_20121216_154617_zps15090744.jpg


I am sharing this with everyone here because I know for a fact that there are MANY people on here that don't make a point of testing their equipment as they should. I also know that there are a lot of people that carry Glocks here in MA because they are reliable handguns. Additionally there are a lot of people out there carrying these guns with cripple mags in an attempt to comply with the law. After what I saw today, I would never trust my life to one of these pieces of shit. I will be carrying my G17 from now on until I can acquire some standard mags for the G19.

Some may be thinking, "well mine works just fine". Why would you take the chance? These mags reliably turned three otherwise flawless firearms into a collection of paper weights. The only other hollow point that I have tried feeding through these mags have been Hornady Critical Defense. Because these rounds have a much more narrow nose and a filled tip, they were able to feed. However, the whole point of testing the HST rounds was because I learned that the Critical Defense rounds suck.

I will be testing these mags using different hollow points as I get the chance, but they have been put aside for range use only.

Hopefully this has been helpful to at least one person.
 
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Agreed. It's good info and has enough reasons to never rely on cripple mags in a defensive situation. Only range practice !
Looking at the followers, I cannot imagine what Glock was thinking? They are totally broken by design. They have the "correct" angle on the front portion, but then a bump on the bank that intentionally causes the bullet(s) to sit at the wrong angle. Where the normal follower has the same and correct angle over the entire surface of the follower that touches the bullet.
 
Looking at the followers, I cannot imagine what Glock was thinking? They are totally broken by design. They have the "correct" angle on the front portion, but then a bump on the bank that intentionally causes the bullet(s) to sit at the wrong angle. Where the normal follower has the same and correct angle over the entire surface of the follower that touches the bullet.

Yeah I have no idea. I only have 2 cripple mags that came with my Gen4 19 and I only use them for the range. They also don't eject as fast as pre-ban/post-ban mags. I'm sure Glock was just like oh these are for MA residents? [rofl] Nice retard mags for you idiots.
 
Good info and since you have both mags is it possible to swap the followers in them and see if the problem persists? Very interesting the way the round is hitting off center on the ramp.
 
Valuable info. I don't have (or need) the 10 round mags, but the take-away for me was to do more thorough testing of my SD ammo.

This right here is all I was trying to get across. I'm glad this was helpful.

FMJ is cheap and easy to find which causes people to look at hollow points and say "Oh Noes! I don't want to spend all that money and shoot it at a paper target!" The truth of the matter is that hollow points feed very differently in different guns. Why would you run all these rounds of FMJ through your gun and then when your life depends on it, put a different, untested cartridge into your gun? It is critical that you test your self defense rounds, no matter how much it costs. If your gun goes click when you need it to go bang, how do you think your choice to save a few bucks is going to feel?
 
Grew up shooting my grand dads Luger...no issues whatsoever....he kept 6 cases of wartime rounds handy just in case... he always says austriacs suck.....
 
Good info and since you have both mags is it possible to swap the followers in them and see if the problem persists? Very interesting the way the round is hitting off center on the ramp.
This appears to work. The single round feeds and all 10 cycle manually without modification to the 15rd follower. Just pull the 10rd follower out and replace it with a 15rd follower. Range time will be required to fully verify functionality, but it does seem to be a viable solution so far. The angle is corrected and last round hold-open still functions.

I am completely baffled as to what Glock was trying to do here? They have to mold 2 parts instead of one and one of them is just flatly wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I had this same issue:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...date-2-see-post-26?highlight=mctrinket,+glock

I switched all the followers to old style followers and then the gun would not go into slide lock upon firing the last round in the magazine.

I ended up sending the gun and all four 10 round magazines back to Glock.

I don't know what they did but it feeds everything fine now, no issues.
Did they change the followers? Did you feed ramp come back very shiny?
 
This right here is all I was trying to get across. I'm glad this was helpful.

FMJ is cheap and easy to find which causes people to look at hollow points and say "Oh Noes! I don't want to spend all that money and shoot it at a paper target!" The truth of the matter is that hollow points feed very differently in different guns. Why would you run all these rounds of FMJ through your gun and then when your life depends on it, put a different, untested cartridge into your gun? It is critical that you test your self defense rounds, no matter how much it costs. If your gun goes click when you need it to go bang, how do you think your choice to save a few bucks is going to feel?
Hey, look at the bright side - with the Glock not going into battery, it's much less likely to explode. [rofl]
 
Here are some pics - both 10rd mags - some with 15rd follower, some with original 10rd follower:
10rd follower (BAD):
graph_paper_bad.JPG

15rd follower (GOOD):
graph_paper_good.JPG

Comparison, side by side (bad one near, good one far):
side_by_side_bad_close.JPG

Side by side (good one near, bad one far):
side_by_side_good_close.JPG

All aboard the Failboat Glock. This feed angle makes less sense than MA gun laws.
 
Did they change the followers? Did you feed ramp come back very shiny?

They did change the followers--they were 6s, which I originally swapped in, and they all came back with 2s, which they originally had. So I was (and am) baffled. The feed ramp looked more or less the same. But it feeds JHPs now without any issues.

I actually got a couple of boxes of Federal HST at the Holbrook show a few weeks ago, so I will try them and see how they feed--but I've had no issues with any JHP ammo since the gun and mags came back from Glock. Shot 50 rounds of the Rem Gold Sabres that were originally causing the issues and they all went boom.
 
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They did change the followers--they were 6s, which I originally swapped in, and they all came back with 2s, which they originally had. So I was (and am) baffled. The feed ramp looked more or less the same. But it feeds JHPs now without any issues.
The bad ones above are all 2s.

BTW, those (pictures immediately above) are gold-dots which showed identical (bad) behavior as the HSTs.
 
The bad ones above are all 2s.

BTW, those (pictures immediately above) are gold-dots which showed identical (bad) behavior as the HSTs.

Yeah, I started out with #2s for followers and had these FTF issues with JHPs. Switched to #6 followers and it fed but would not go into slide lock. Sent it all back to Glock (with #6 followers in the mags) and all the mags came back with #2 followers in them--but no more FTF issues for some reason.

I wish I knew what they did but it did not say on the return work order sheet. Just that everything was functioning as intended. And it is! I've had no repeat of any of the previous issues with any ammo I've ran in it since and I fired a lot of different types of JHPs.
 
They did change the followers--they were 6s, which I originally swapped in, and they all came back with 2s, which they originally had. So I was (and am) baffled. The feed ramp looked more or less the same. But it feeds JHPs now without any issues.
Ok, I am even more baffled then. The one that "works" (from the 15rd mag) is a 6, the one that fails is a 2.

Here they are side-by-side (2 on the left, 6 on the right):
followers.jpg

You can see the 2 has a bump on the back which cause the cartridge to rest on the projectile and rim rather than resting on the entire case and more importantly with the nose pointing down relative to the "6" follower.
 
Ok, I am even more baffled then. The one that "works" (from the 15rd mag) is a 6, the one that fails is a 2.

Here they are side-by-side (2 on the left, 6 on the right):
View attachment 47118

You can see the 2 has a bump on the back which cause the cartridge to rest on the projectile and rim rather than resting on the entire case and more importantly with the nose pointing down relative to the "6" follower.

As I said to Dan, I hadn't noticed this because when I function checked previously, I loaded up a mag and dumped it - many times.

I did not try to load a single round. I think it entirely possible that this would still feed at full speed, but not if you attempt to load a single round. I never saw this feeding issue with the 10rd until I tried to load a single round.
 
As I said to Dan, I hadn't noticed this because when I function checked previously, I loaded up a mag and dumped it - many times.

I did not try to load a single round. I think it entirely possible that this would still feed at full speed, but not if you attempt to load a single round. I never saw this feeding issue with the 10rd until I tried to load a single round.

Mike, we did try loading 5 rounds into one of the cripple mags to run it through the chronograph. It jammed with more than one round as well.

Thanks for taking the time to pull the mags apart. Just looking at the side by side of the pulled apart mags, you would think that the #2 follower would be more resistant to tilt.
 
Mike, we did try loading 5 rounds into one of the cripple mags to run it through the chronograph. It jammed with more than one round as well.

Thanks for taking the time to pull the mags apart. Just looking at the side by side of the pulled apart mags, you would think that the #2 follower would be more resistant to tilt.
#6 on the right snaps on to the spring which stops tilt. #2 on the left has an eyelet where the spring hooks in.

To put it another way, #2 tilts because the back rocks up rather than the front going down. It isn't fastened to the spring like the #6 is.
 
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