GOAL Board of Directors

[C-pher]

It is almost at the bottom of the email titled, "Gun Owners' Action League 2010 Annual Report" that was sent on 01/06/2011. You must be a member in good standing for at least 3 years or a sustaining member to vote.

I've had a family membership for that long. My kids are GOAL members because of this...does this mean that I can send in four ballots for me, my wife, and both my kids???

I'm not...but it brings up another question...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Adam, Nicole and I were talking about this Monday Night. What's to stop me from taking a stack of copies to my club, passing them out and asking them to fill it out and mail it in?

Do you mean like you did a few weeks ago?

j/k

From fuzzy memory of prior years:

- There was nothing magical about prior ballots. They were printed on regular paper and mailed out. No ID on them as I recall and no need to put your name/# on them.

- One could print out numerous copies (might have been on colored paper, but Staples/OfficeMax can handle that) and mail them in as well.

I just don't think that GOAL ever felt a need to hire an accounting firm to handle the ballots, serially numbered and only the accountants would have numbers to match up with members eligible (random numbers assigned of course).

To your point, as a member since 1978, I don't ever recall as much competition as there is this year. Usually there might be 1 or 2 people more than slots.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've had a family membership for that long. My kids are GOAL members because of this...does this mean that I can send in four ballots for me, my wife, and both my kids???

I'm not...but it brings up another question...

I'm guessing you get only one vote per family membership.

This is based on a question I asked Jim this week. My Wife is a Sustaining Member (as well as I) under my membership number (don't know what it is called as I asked Nancy if a Spouse Sustaining Member was available and she said yes, gave me a price and we did it). So I asked Jim if she was or wasn't entitled to vote. It seems not according to the Bylaws.

As a comparison: BR&P Spouse Member gets a different badge number but is NOT entitled to vote. MF&G Spouse Member gets a different badge number and IS entitled to vote/hold office.

I'm OK whichever way GOAL wants to run their org. I just raised the question so that we (Wife) could get a valid answer.

 

[securityboy]

Hmm...well good luck to those who are running...

I think the points brought up here regarding potential voter fraud are fairly valid...how hard would it have been to number each ballot (1-however many voting members goal has)... some one has to tally the votes anyway, don't think it would be too hard to check a number off a list at the same time...then when you get back 5 copies of ballot #15, you know something is up...voting would still be "secret", no list of who was sent what ballot #...but at least a simple way to make sure no "copies" were sent in...

PS. I am not a voting GOAL member, but if anyone running for the BOD wants to send me a copy or two of the current ballot I'd be happy to give you my vote

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have been through this exercise as I am on the board of a membership org with about 19,000 members (www.uspsa.org) and a balloting standard that requires elections that use an independent, and auditable, process.

We use an independent CPA firm, providing them with database of eligible member names/addresses and the names for the ballots. They sent out serial numbered ballots, collect them, and report the results. In one case where they unintentionally used "Standard Mail" (marketing speak for what used to be called "bulk rate"), they had to do it twice - and match up ballot serial numbers to avoid duplicates (only the copy sent first class counted if both copies were returned). The organization did not have access to the serial numbers, who voted, etc. The cost for this annual election is in the thousands. We could run an election by mail ourselves for less, and do one on-line for even less - but that would undermine the integrity of the process and require that the members trust the persons counting the votes (who are under control of the elected leadership) - so that approach has not even been considered.

I spent some time speaking with Election Corporation of America which specializes in independent, secure balloting for private orgs using mail, internet and 800 number. Funny thing though - I sent the salesperson a breakdown of our costs and the balloting that concluded with "I am very interested if you can match our current cost structure. Any quote in excess of our current cost structure, even if it offers additional service, will be DOA. In any case, I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply". I never received ANY response, which tells me that this would have cost even more than the CPA route.

The current GOAL approach would never survive scrutiny for a corporate proxy vote or "real election", but also saves GOAL several thousand dollars a year over doing it in an auditable manner.

There are several issues:

1. Cost, cost and cost.

2. Tampering by voters (duplication of ballots, etc.)

3. Tampering by those in control of the vote counting

Reducing the possibility of #2 and #3 increases #1. As an org grows in size, cost becomes less important and maintaining the integrity of the election more so.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Rob, I wonder how many GOAL members (eligible) even vote!

I'll bet it is a really small number, and it thus gets handled much like elections at a local gun club . . . for better or worse.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I know this is late to ask but it states:
GOAL members in good standing for 3+ years, Sustaining, Benefactor & Patron members can vote!

The mailing was going out sometime end of Dec. I for one did not receive any paperwork for the voting. I received other GOAL mailers in the past 2-3 weeks so I know I am "on the list" I have been a member in good standing for 6-7 years. I just figured I would mention it here if others are in the same boat. I will call GOAL and see if you can do it online or maybe they could fax me it if its not too late.

**UPDATED**

Spoke to Angie at GOAL office and she confirmed the situation with the ballots, my email was incorrect (old email) on file so that is why I had not seen it yet. I believe they are sending it back out shortly for those still interested in voting on the Board.

 

[dwarven1]

According to Chris in the other thread on the GOAL BOD election, after they sent out the email with the link to print the ballot it was discovered that this was against the GOAL bylaws. Thus, a new paper ballot will be being sent to those of us who get our GOAL news via email and the deadline is being extended.

 

[Coyote33]

I did not know we were even up against a deadline. I guess I need to go read that email. I think they ought to just do away with the ballots entirely and have people vote in person at the annual meeting. I also think they ought to combine the annual meeting with the annual banquet and throw a trade show in at the same time! This would ensure good attendance, and some good speakers as well.

 

[Acme.Armament]

I did not know we were even up against a deadline. I guess I need to go read that email. I think they ought to just do away with the ballots entirely and have people vote in person at the annual meeting. I also think they ought to combine the annual meeting with the annual banquet and throw a trade show in at the same time! This would ensure good attendance, and some good speakers as well.

Good idea. Maybe done over a weekend?

 

[Dirtypacman]

I did not know we were even up against a deadline. I guess I need to go read that email. I think they ought to just do away with the ballots entirely and have people vote in person at the annual meeting. I also think they ought to combine the annual meeting with the annual banquet and throw a trade show in at the same time! This would ensure good attendance, and some good speakers as well.

+1 Love that idea