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Gold and silver prices are down

I did notice that the local guy I have historically dealt with @ $1.50-$2 over spot is now a solid $4 over--plus service fee.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
For those of you considering gold and silver in "investment quantities" (Tens of $K worth or more, not buying a handful of rounds or coins from a storefront dealer), remember the tax situation. Unlike stocks that enjoy long term capital gains benefits, precious metals are "collectibles" and all gains are taxed as ordinary income. Sure, you may sell a few ounces to Ziggy off the books, buy try that with $50K of your metals portfolio when it's time to cash in and you're dancing with a felony.
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What about in states that have made gold and silver legal tender?
 
01SVTvert said:
He bought high and is trying to recoup some of his loss, it's to be expected if the dealer thinks things are going to stay low for a while.
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It's more a reflection of the competitive environment, and the fact that demand increases when the price is low - and the seller is trying to benefit from the shortage of supply this increased demand brings about.

Costs do not determine price - what a buyer is willing to pay does. Just ask anyone who sold a house in the real estate boom ... or in the crash.

The real premium is the buy/sell spread from the larger brokerages like Apmex (running about 8.5% on Silver Eagles now).
 
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RLBreton said:
I did notice that the local guy I have historically dealt with @ $1.50-$2 over spot is now a solid $4 over--plus service fee.
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All of the online retailers have dropped prices but increased fees consistent with your observation.

Silver isn't cheap enough to make up for the additional fees.

Gold may be or may be close but you'll take a bath purchasing silver coins right now.

The fees to handle silver coins (per coin) is about 4x the handling fee for a single gold coin (1oz)

While it doesnt pay to buy 1oz silver coins right now, purchasing 10 or even 100oz bars isn't so bad.......but they are also more difficult to deal with than 1oz coins
 
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NHAtHeart said:
If you keep your eyes open you can still get some deals. I picked up $300 face value 90% for $700 about $15.50 per $1 of face.
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EXCELLENT! That's really, really good. Best I found prior to this latest increase was $16.90 per $1 face--still a buy IMO
 
Yeah, they are just fleecing us because they figure that most people just see that the prices are a lot lower and feel like they have to buy right this minute. Physical inventories may be tight, but unless you think the world will end in the next few weeks, don't freak out. If you do think the world will end in the next few weeks, well, your order won't be in by then.

If you weren't buying silver at $26/ounce with a $3 markup, it doesn't make sense to buy $24 silver with a $5 markup, but it seems like that is just what a lot of people are doing.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, they are just fleecing us because they figure that most people just see that the prices are a lot lower and feel like they have to buy right this minute. Physical inventories may be tight, but unless you think the world will end in the next few weeks, don't freak out. If you do think the world will end in the next few weeks, well, your order won't be in by then.

If you weren't buying silver at $26/ounce with a $3 markup, it doesn't make sense to buy $24 silver with a $5 markup, but it seems like that is just what a lot of people are doing.
 
It seems like its at about $4 over for wire and $5 over for CC. With more coming available and the prices trending down to stable, I'd say that spreads should tighten fairly soon.

The thing that pisses me off most about spreads widening when prices go down is that they are increasing their margin a lot. I understand the mechanics of the market and all, but charging me 2.99 over spot when prices are $35/ounce and then charging me $4.99 over spot when prices are 22 is just BS. You can't even argue its the coin premium, because you would reasonably expect to sell more coins as prices go down so could afford to cut margins.

This is one of the reasons, IMHO, physical metal dealers are thought of somewhere between gypsies and lawyers.
 
Having to deal with this crap is one thing that reduces the appeal of precious metals as an investment. Another is the fact that gains are considered "ordinary income on collectibles", and not subject to capital gains treatment (something you will NEVER see mentioned in a gold merchant's literature). There is a huge difference between trading in "investment quantities" (tens of thousands) and buying/selling a few coins at the local storefront merchant.

As to spread - one that really matters is the buy/sell spread. Larger spreads at lower prices means lower spreads if you sell after a gain, thus surrendering a portion of the market gain to the market makers.
 
What's a good source for buying gold or silver coins or bullion that ships to you? Are there any that accept credit or debit cards? Is there a local source (I live in Andover)?
 
jxj212000 said:
What's a good source for buying gold or silver coins or bullion that ships to you? Are there any that accept credit or debit cards? Is there a local source (I live in Andover)?
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boston bullion in burlington.
cash and carry, no questions asked. but i think they accept all forms of payment.
they will even offer an armed escort back to your car....that makes me [laugh] every time.
 
lancecolonel said:
boston bullion in burlington.
cash and carry, no questions asked. but i think they accept all forms of payment.
they will even offer an armed escort back to your car....that makes me [laugh] every time.
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I had that happen one time. I kinda laughed too as I was carrying.

My opinion on the whole mess -PM's will be like ammo. Plenty on the shelves today, but one black swan event and they'll be empty the next. Best to have a small amount as insurance.
 
BerkshireHunter said:
My opinion on the whole mess -PM's will be like ammo. Plenty on the shelves today, but one black swan event and they'll be empty the next. Best to have a small amount as insurance.
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We have been seeing that as prices come down. Every time a new low is hit, most of the dealers sell out. I think Apmex and Gainesville(two of the more popular mail order companies) are sold out of ASE at the moment, taking orders for the second week of June. Spreads are returning to 'normal' for eagles(ASE) and maple leafs, but junk silver premiums are still high.

In my research, Gainesville seems to have the best price for credit card on ASE.

You will save the 3% fee if you pay with wire or check/MO, and wire will usually ship fastest. If you pay with check, MO, or CC, they will hold the order until payment clears, but since you are seeing 2-3 week delays anyway, it may not matter.
 
BerkshireHunter said:
My opinion on the whole mess -PM's will be like ammo. Plenty on the shelves today, but one black swan event and they'll be empty the next. Best to have a small amount as insurance.
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THIS.

Plus--I am _not_ a fan of buying metals on plastic for 2 reasons: 1) it costs you interest unless you're paying it off immediately and 2) it COMPLETELY takes out the anonymity out of the equation.
 
lancecolonel said:
boston bullion in burlington.
cash and carry, no questions asked. but i think they accept all forms of payment.
they will even offer an armed escort back to your car....that makes me [laugh] every time.
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how is their silver bar selection? 1oz bars available at the burlington site? i've been meaning to check this place out. cash and carry sounds great!
 
lancecolonel said:
only way to know is to call. you need to make an appointment to buy there.
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THIS

As far as selection, my experience with them has shown they are more a melt value shop than a collectors shop. That doesn't mean they don't HAVE collectibles, but I wouldn't say it's their main focus
 
RLBreton said:
THIS

As far as selection, my experience with them has shown they are more a melt value shop than a collectors shop. That doesn't mean they don't HAVE collectibles, but I wouldn't say it's their main focus
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They're a bullion shop that has good buy prices. I don't think they do much business in collectible coins but I haven't asked.
 
was in yesterday. you will pay sales tax on any purchase under $1000. one of the guys was saying that the shop will be moving soon and they are thinking of starting a $1000 minimum purchase policy.
call. the guys there seem like a good bunch and they make buying real easy. and i guarantee that you will LOVE their company logo.
 
anybody purchased silver bars in the past? 1oz, 10oz, any recommendations whether coins or small denomination bars? is there less premium on the bars as opposed to coins?
 
Generally speaking, junk silver (worn pre-1965 US dimes, quarters, halfs) and generic bars and rounds will have the lowest premiums. Brand name bullion (Engelhard, etc) and US Eagles will be more. I try to keep a mix on hand. I'm approx 40% Eagles, 40% junk, 20% generic 1oz bars and very few fractional. I personally don't have bars larger than 1oz because of my buying habits ($100-200 dollars at a time) not because they aren't preferable. YMMV.
 
Every time I hear the hype about PM's I go an check out the performance over time. It seems like people (institutional and professional investors) try to time their buy/sell cycles with stock market performance. They invest in metals when the market is sucking, and dump them when the market is cruising (like now). As far as I can tell, the only reason to buy PM's is to preserve value or capital. You are not going to make money, not a lot anyway but you likely have something that you can sell in the event of a total market collapse.

Net result is that I never buy PM's as there are always some mutual funds that are performing well at any given time. In the event of total market collapse I will just cash everything in - hopefully before the crash and with the hope that eventually the market will recover.
 
Look, you believe what you believe and I can appreciate that and none of us are here to try an influence anyone otherwise. I happen to think you're logic is a little flawed, but wtf do I know? PM investing is definitely to preserve capital--we agree there 100%. Where I think you're being foolish is completely discounting PM vs the Market and\or mutual funds AND "hoping" (your words not mine) to cash everything in before the crash. You and everyone else are hoping for that and unless you're connected, the chances are so slim...FWIW, I am NOT saying that investing in the Market is fruitless or stupid. I am saying that diversification is the key.

My recommendation for anyone is 15-20% of they INVESTMENTS be in PM as a hedge. I'm not an "all or nothing" kinda guy. I'm rocking the 401k--which still has not recovered from 2008. However my gold purchases in 2008 have far exceeded the paper "assets" in value. A buy in the $930oz neighborhood is looking like pretty good even now @ $1380oz. It was spectacular @ $1900oz. My 401k still hasn't reached it's previous 2008 levels. Again, YMMV.
 

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