GSG 5 SD NFA Act Problems CTX

BriMac

BriMac

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Good luck,

Originally Posted by ATI
To all retail customers:

On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.
Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible. We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010.
IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.
WHAT TO DO:
If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624.
PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site American Tactical Imports , and AR15.Com or by e-mail to atiexchange@americantactical.us
REMEMBER, INCLUDE THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER WITH EACH SHROUD OR A REPLACEMENT WILL NOT BE ISSUED.
This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment.
We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation.

Sincerely,
Anthony DiChario
President C.E.O. retailcandoc.021210
 
Thread on ar-15.com: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=305635&page=1

One interesting post from the thread:
OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.

I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device.
Click to expand...
 
I don't get it either. How is the SD model shroud so different from the original one aside from the diameter? Does it really make that much of a difference where it is now NFA regulated? Ridiculous.....
 
Excuse my ignorance, but does having it on the weapon make it illegal or just simply possessing it?

And why the F would anyone want to admit they have one and send it back directly to ATI with the serial number of their rifle?

"Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible."

Avoid continued violation? Really? How does that help anyone?

Why isn't there a statement about this on the front page of the ATI AND the BATFE websites?
 
I would think that an anonymous call to the ATF Tech Branch would be called for here. From a phone booth of course :)
 
Excuse my ignorance, but does having it on the weapon make it illegal or just simply possessing it?
Click to expand...
The tube on a can is considered the regulted part, much like the receiver on a firearm - so it is a NFA item even absent the gun.

And why the F would anyone want to admit they have one and send it back directly to ATI with the serial number of their rifle?
Click to expand...

Perhaps because one can reasonably expect the ATI and involved dealers to provide information as to the destination for the non-returned units if the ATF decides to demand it.

Avoid continued violation? Really? How does that help anyone?
Click to expand...

By reducing the chanced the BATFE will pro/persecute the owner for possession of an unregistered NFA weapon.


--------------------

This has happened before. The BATFE ruled the Atkins Accelerator was not a machine gun, then changed their mind once they hit the marketplace and it became clear just how well the units worked. They demanded return of the spring in the unit to render it a "non-machinegun".
 
Sounds like another case of the ATF changing the rules mid-game.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't the ATF have to approve the original design before it was even allowed to be imported into this country?
 
glide said:
And why the F would anyone want to admit they have one and send it back directly to ATI with the serial number of their rifle?
Click to expand...

Because there's a paper trail.

ATI has shipping records of the distributors/dealers.

The dealers have the 4473's of the buyers.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't the ATF have to approve the original design before it was even allowed to be imported into this country?
Click to expand...

The ATF technology unit issued a formal opinion that the Atkins Accellerator was not an NFA item even when installed on a firearm.

They later changed their mind.
 
glide said:
Excuse my ignorance, but does having it on the weapon make it illegal or just simply possessing it?

And why the F would anyone want to admit they have one and send it back directly to ATI with the serial number of their rifle?

"Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible."

Avoid continued violation? Really? How does that help anyone?...
Click to expand...

Lets assume "you" own the effected item ( not you personally, just "you"). You are now in possession of an illegal "device"...what "defense" would you prefer to stand behind?
1. Keep it and hope ATF never comes looking for it, if they do you need to explain why you ignored the notice to return the "illegal" part.
2. Properly destroy it yourself, hope ATF never comes looking for it, and if they do some how try to prove you destroyed it yourself.
3. Do as ATI/ATF ask, return the part to them, where they will document the return, and send you a legal replacment part, if ever questioned about it you have the paper trail to say "I returned it as requested, see..."

As long as the tin foil hat isn't on too tight, returning it for a legal replacement doesn't seem too risky...
 
Something smells fishy here. There is no mention of this on the ATI web site. If I bought this firearm legitimately, how can I now be a criminal without any official notification? What is the official notification mechanism being used by the BATFE to inform the owners of this change in the status of their firearm? I agree that some miscreant might think of modifying the barrel so the can functioned as a sort of silencer but those types will probably modify it anyway can or not.
 
I wouldn't freak out if I owned one of these guns. If there is a problem the ATF will do a forward trace and send you a letter or just watch the ATI website.
These type of things happen all the time, the YUGO.M76s in8MM , Streetsweepers, Strikers-12 &USAS 12 into DDs and Coles UZI kits ECT ECT.
 
Sounds like this may be more fall out from the HK ruling that got them off themarket for trademark/copyright violations.

I would put money on it HK dropped a dime on them that made the ATF change their minds to further screw ATI
 
LoginName said:
Because there's a paper trail.

ATI has shipping records of the distributors/dealers.

The dealers have the 4473's of the buyers.
Click to expand...

But doesn't just HAVING one in your possession get you in trouble? As far as I know the ATF is not offering any sort of amnesty period. There has been very little word on this from both ATI and the BATFE.
 
glide said:
But doesn't just HAVING one in your possession get you in trouble? As far as I know the ATF is not offering any sort of amnesty period. There has been very little word on this from both ATI and the BATFE.
Click to expand...

I just read through ATI's responses to the questions from the arfcom members, the ATF is giving their customers an amnesty period but haven't defined what the period will be as of yet. Really unfortunate situation for ATI, hopefully it works out well for everyone involved.
 
This sounds ridiculous. I'm not doing anything until I hear something official. How can they make a barrel shroud an NFA item because someone 'might' port the barrel? I 'might' saw the barrel off of my shotgun, that doesn't make it an NFA item if I decide not to.
 
z0mbi said:
This sounds ridiculous. I'm not doing anything until I hear something official. How can they make a barrel shroud an NFA item because someone 'might' port the barrel? I 'might' saw the barrel off of my shotgun, that doesn't make it an NFA item if I decide not to.
Click to expand...

Well there you go, trying to apply logic and common sense to the situation, shame on you. [rofl]
 
According to the arfcom thread, it also seems up in the air as to whether the non-SD version is compliant.

I'd like to see something official as well.
 
Ok so there's nothing on American Tactical's website about this situation. The only information about this is this thread, and a link referenced on ar15.com (can't view it since I'm at work and they block ar15.com). Let's say there's an individual who owns the affected model. This individual isn't a member of ar15.com or NES, or is a member of these sites but hasn't come across the threads related to this topic. How in the world is this indiviual going to know about this situation?!?!?!?!

Something official needs to be broadcasted to the general public if there truly is a violation.
 
BadBoyBilly said:
Ok so there's nothing on American Tactical's website about this situation. The only information about this is this thread, and a link referenced on ar15.com (can't view it since I'm at work and they block ar15.com). Let's say there's an individual who owns the affected model. This individual isn't a member of ar15.com or NES, or is a member of these sites but hasn't come across the threads related to this topic. How in the world is this indiviual going to know about this situation?!?!?!?!

Something official needs to be broadcasted to the general public if there truly is a violation.
Click to expand...

The "representative" from ATI on arfcom said the webmaster is out and will make changes when he returns.


It's the ATF site I'd be concerned with. One would think notification would be required, whether from ATF, ATI, or the dealer you purchased from.

If the piece is illegal, wouldn't shipping it be yet another violation?
 
people need to stop complying.

people need to start telling the ATF to blow us, wholesale.

you goddamn cowards. WE have the guns. but we'll just let em take em away one by one.
 

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