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Guidance for using cast

grog

grog

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Guys, I'm about to start reloading some .38 Special for my brother but I've never used cast bullets. They are 125 gr RNFP. The load data for jacketed rounds looks a little heavy compared to what I read online for cast rounds but I can't find my powder online. It's VihtaVouri 3N37.
Any help would be appreciated, your own ideas or links to get the info I need. Tried Google and not much help there either.
Grog
 
Is that the only powder you have?
Sometimes its just better to find a powder that is better suited. I at least believe VV would list it if it was a good choice for 125gn lead?
You can send a email off to VV and get some technical info? Under the "resources" tab they have a " request" load data.
 
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Thanks Mac, it's not that the grains of powder to use for the given weight bullet aren't listed it's more that their ONLY listed for jacked weight bullets and what I've read online say that cast and jacketed are different. So by different I assumed that it meant a different amount of powder. I've read articles about ensuring you crimp cast bullets well etc., etc. so I assume the powder amount would be different from cast. I will email VV thanks for that suggestion.
Grog
 
grog said:
Thanks Mac, it's not that the grains of powder to use for the given weight bullet aren't listed it's more that their ONLY listed for jacked weight bullets and what I've read online say that cast and jacketed are different. So by different I assumed that it meant a different amount of powder. I've read articles about ensuring you crimp cast bullets well etc., etc. so I assume the powder amount would be different from cast. I will email VV thanks for that suggestion.
Grog
Click to expand...
maybe Im wrong but a 125 gn cast in 38 spl might not be common enough for manufacture s to do data on?
i have a program called quick loads that can help figure out loads.
I tried down loading this free calculator but I could not get it to work. Im not much for patience figuring out computer stuff.
You can enter all the data and choose the powder and get idea of what is the outcome

start [Gordons Reloading Tool Community]

www.grtools.de www.grtools.de
 
Call the manufacturer before you try experimenting. Cast loads are going to be a lot lower charge than jacketed and you can get into trouble with undercharged loads.
 
I haven't reloaded pistol in about 30 yrs, but when I did I was loading lead bullets and used the powder mfr's pamphlets listing loads/components.

You might try the powder mfr's website to see if there is a modern day equivalent of that info.
 
grog said:
Thanks Mac, it's not that the grains of powder to use for the given weight bullet aren't listed it's more that their ONLY listed for jacked weight bullets and what I've read online say that cast and jacketed are different. So by different I assumed that it meant a different amount of powder. I've read articles about ensuring you crimp cast bullets well etc., etc. so I assume the powder amount would be different from cast. I will email VV thanks for that suggestion.
Grog
Click to expand...
Do you know who manufactured the 125s you have? What dia?
 
grog said:
Thanks Mac, it's not that the grains of powder to use for the given weight bullet aren't listed it's more that their ONLY listed for jacked weight bullets and what I've read online say that cast and jacketed are different. So by different I assumed that it meant a different amount of powder. I've read articles about ensuring you crimp cast bullets well etc., etc. so I assume the powder amount would be different from cast. I will email VV thanks for that suggestion.
Grog
Click to expand...
Jacketed load data most likely to hot. lyman is the only cast load handbook I,have and i dont think VV powders shown up anywhere in the book? I just dont recall seeing it?
 
mac1911 said:
Jacketed load data most likely to hot. lyman is the only cast load handbook I,have and i dont think VV powders shown up anywhere in the book? I just dont recall seeing it?
Click to expand...

I have the Lyman manual as well...if I can put my hands on it, i will post what I find here....but I think Mac is right about the lack of VV in that book. Might be easier to grab a pound of Win231 or Bullseye.
 
The closest I could come is 124 grain lead from intercast. The start load with 3n37 is 6.3 grains for 1079 fps and the max. is 7 grains for 1205 fps. This is from the 2006 Vihtavuori Reloading Guide. Maybe I'm being over cautious but that seems a bit fast to me. I'd call Vihtavuori and verify.
 
I agree with others, I’d just grab some 231/HP-38 assuming you don’t have a ton of this VV powder. I was informed yesterday that Shooters Outpost in NH had 231/HP-38 in stock at $24.99 per pound. I’m sure Glenn’s Ammo in N Reading, MA would have one of those or possibly Bullseye powder which will work great with those cast bullets.

Or contact VV and see what they have to say.
 
Thanks for the feedback, I emailed VV already and ordered a Lyman manual for cast bullets from Amazon. We'll see where that get's me.
Appreciate the advice all.
Grog
 
You don't always find load data for a specific powder and bullet combination.
It may be that a powder isn't suitable or perhaps the load data doesn't list every possible combination.
If this troubles you, stick to listed bullets and listed powders.
One powder will not work in every application.
 
Found it in 'Modern Reloading' by Richard Lee

VihtaVouri 3N37:

.38 Special: For 124 Gr Lead Starting is 5.9 Gr. for 1034 FPS and max is 6.6 Gr. for 1137 FPS. Min OAL is 1.435

.38 Special +P : For 124 Gr Lead Starting is 6.6 Gr. for 1137 FPS and max is 6.8 Gr. for 1170 FPS. Min OAL is 1.435

Myself I use 2.7 Gr. of Clays with a 125 Gr. Blue Bullet for Steel Challenge.
 
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grog said:
Thanks Mac, it's not that the grains of powder to use for the given weight bullet aren't listed it's more that their ONLY listed for jacked weight bullets and what I've read online say that cast and jacketed are different. So by different I assumed that it meant a different amount of powder. I've read articles about ensuring you crimp cast bullets well etc., etc. so I assume the powder amount would be different from cast. I will email VV thanks for that suggestion.
Grog
Click to expand...
You can use jacketed data for cast.

Just load a little less.

Example: if starting is 4.0 and max is 6.0 for jacketed, then start your lead at 4.0 or even 3.8 and work from there.

If using 3.8, just be careful with squibs.

With the data shown in post two, I would load:

A. 5 with 6.6
B. 5 with 6.8
C. 5 with 7

See how that works. 0.7 grains doesn't give you a lot of room to play. I am not a fan of that. I would get a different powder. The $30 in powder cost is not a big deal.
 
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jpm said:
get a pound of unique. It can be used for pistol and rifle, cast and plated and some jacketed too. Its VERY versatile, probably the most versatile powder you can get.
Click to expand...
Trailboss and clays is a nice soft shooting target load also. Good thing about 38 spl. Theres a good selection of powders to use.
 
Knob Creek said:
Found it in 'Modern Reloading' by Richard Lee

VihtaVouri 3N37:

.38 Special: For 124 Gr Lead Starting is 5.9 Gr. for 1034 FPS and max is 6.6 Gr. for 1137 FPS. Min OAL is 1.435

.38 Special +P : For 124 Gr Lead Starting is 6.6 Gr. for 1137 FPS and max is 6.8 Gr. for 1170 FPS. Min OAL is 1.435

Myself I use 2.7 Gr. of Clays with a 125 Gr. Blue Bullet for Steel Challenge.
Click to expand...

This is why the Lee manuals are awesome. IIRC they don’t develop their own load data they just take the data from powder and bullet manufacturers and re print it.
Also Loaddata.com is worth the $ if you don’t have a large collection of manuals. They work on the same principle as the Lee manuals
Every load data manual/booklet and every handloader magazine article load data compiled over the years into a searchable database



Broccoli Iglesias said:
You can use jacketed data for cast.

Just load a little less.

Example: if starting is 4.0 and max is 6.0 for jacketed, then start your lead at 4.0 or even 3.8 and work from there.

If using 3.8, just be careful with squibs.

With the data shown in post two, I would load:

A. 5 with 6.6
B. 5 with 6.8
C. 5 with 7

See how that works. 0.7 grains doesn't give you a lot of room to play. I am not a fan of that. I would get a different powder. The $30 in powder cost is not a big deal.
Click to expand...

This is a good rule of thumb. Cast for the most part can be loaded starting with starting loads for jacketed or a little less.
Look through whatever manuals you have and compare the cast and the jacketed loads to see the slight differences. Work up a load from there.
 
mac1911 said:
Trailboss and clays is a nice soft shooting target load also. Good thing about 38 spl. Theres a good selection of powders to use.
Click to expand...
@grog I have A LOT of trailboss powder.

I see you are in Western, MA. If you want to try it, I will be at the Granby gun club in January for USPSA and Steel Challenge (see dates in screesnhot below). If you want, I can bring you an unopened container.

Trailboss is used a lot by Cowboy action shooters and most of them shoot .38.

Just PM me.

20201218_130320.jpg
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
@grog I have A LOT of trailboss powder.

I see you are in Western, MA. If you want to try it, I will be at the Granby gun club in January for USPSA and Steel Challenge (see dates in screesnhot below). If you want, I can bring you an unopened container.

Trailboss is used a lot by Cowboy action shooters and most of them shoot .38.

Just PM me.

View attachment 424776
Click to expand...
I need to take some of that trail boss off your hands...I only need a can maybe two...

I have a pound of Power Pistol that I don't need...
 
grog said:
Thanks Mac, Broc and Pennie,
Great information from all of you. I think I have a starting point now.
Thanks
Grog
Click to expand...
In the lee manual he has a formula for finding reduced loads and cast load powder charges. Although its not for everypowder. He explains it in the manual.
 

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