• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Gun Makers Adjust Rifles to Skirt Bans

mikeyp

NES Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
14,511
Likes
29,550
Location
Plymouth
Feedback: 1 / 0 / 0
You know, what the rest of us would call making a compliant gun.

Gun Makers Adjust Rifles to Skirt Bans

California first banned the sale of guns it calls assault weapons, including AR-15 style rifles, in 1989, then updated the restrictions in 1999 and again in 2016.

An accused shooter used just such a gun in April to attack a synagogue outside San Diego, killing one and injuring three. He bought it earlier this year in California where, despite the state ban, it is legal, according to law-enforcement officials.

The AR-15 style rifle that John Earnest, who has pleaded not guilty to all charges, is accused by police of using was one of many models the firearms industry has come up with to skirt the regulations put in place by the seven states that outlaw semiautomatic weapons with certain features, which they refer to as assault weapons. These odd-looking semiautomatic rifles operate similarly to ones that are banned, including the ability to rapidly fire.

Illegal in California
The state bans new semiautomatic rifles with a detachable magazine* and any of the following features:
*If you have a magazine that was fixed to the gun, you can have those features.

Sources: Gun makers, dealers and law enforcement; Smith & Wesson (rifle schematic)
Legal in California
Gun makers make workaround weapons that don't include the banned features or adhere to the letter of the law on fixed magazines.
Sources: Gun makers, dealers and law enforcement; Smith & Wesson (rifle schematic)
“They all shoot the same,” said Norris Sweidan, the owner of Warrior One Guns & Ammo in Riverside, Calif., where the walls are lined with AR- and AK-style rifles modified to be legal in the state. “These people that are passing the laws, how many of them do you think have actually shot a gun?”

In response to mass shootings, Democratic presidential candidates including former Vice President Joe Biden and California Sen. Kamala Harris say they want to renew the Federal Assault Weapons Ban that was in place from 1994 to 2004. Governors from Rhode Island and Virginia are pushing them too.

But the proliferation of guns sold legally that operate nearly identically to banned models shows how difficult it can be to make firearm restrictions effective.

California State Sen. Steve Glazer, a Democrat who wrote 2016 legislation to block sales of a workaround, has been working on the issue since 1989, when he was a staffer for the legislator who led the fight for the first ban.

“You try to make progress every year, and so do gun manufacturers and their R&D departments,” Mr. Glazer said.

Representatives for gun manufacturers including American Outdoor Brands Corp. , the maker of Smith & Wesson guns including the one allegedly used by Mr. Earnest, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. didn’t respond to requests for comment. Mark Oliva, a spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade group for gun manufacturers, said of the state laws, “They’re basing the bans strictly on cosmetic features that have no bearing on the operation or the function of the firearm.”

Initially, California banned certain gun models, but manufacturers just changed their names. Now, state law bans certain features that lawmakers say make them dangerous, such as a pistol grip that shooters can wrap their hands around, and adjustable shoulder stocks.

One popular way around California law is a gun called the featureless AR-15. It has a finlike grip that is difficult to wrap a hand around and a fixed shoulder stock. People who use the guns say it is very similar to the original AR-15.

“It’s just as accurate either way”, said Ron LaPedis, a Bay Area shooting instructor who owns a featureless AR rifle.

Bullet-button guns were long one of the most popular and controversial ways to get around California’s ban, which also attempted to outlaw magazines that could be quickly replaced by mandating that they require a tool to be removed. In response, gun makers came up with magazine-release buttons that could be operated with a bullet, which fit the state’s definition of a tool and earned the guns the name bullet-button.

Bullet-button guns sold briskly, including two that were used by a husband-and-wife terrorist duo to kill 14 and injure 22 people in San Bernardino, Calif., in 2015. The attackers had illegally altered the bullet button, but the shooting inspired Mr. Glazer to pass a 2016 law to ban them.

Now, modification kits have hit the market that allow shooters to quickly replace magazines even with the bullet-button ban. These kits fit within the new law, which in effect requires the gun to be opened up and made temporarily inoperable to change the magazine. On a recent day at his store, Mr. Sweidan held up one of these modified AR-15s, pushed a button to break open the gun just a hair, dropped out the magazine, and popped a new one in. It took less than five seconds.

“You’re ready to go,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the state attorney general declined to comment on the modified weapons.

About 16 million AR-15 style and other similar semiautomatic rifles have been made for sale in the U.S. since 1990, according to the NSSF. Production slowed but didn’t stop when the federal ban was in place. Dealers say the modified versions aren’t as popular.

Bob Arthur, owner of Arthur’s Shooters Supply in Berlin, Md., said that in 2014, the year after Maryland’s ban went into effect, his sales dropped 70%. The law “put a lot of gun shops out of business and that I think is what they are trying to do,” he said.

One banned feature gun makers haven’t been able to circumvent is the limit passed by California in 1999 on new magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds.

Some witnesses said it is possible that the 10-round magazine may have limited the damage in the San Diego shooting.

“If you could limit the ability to reload and limit the ammo, those can be significant deterrents to a shooter’s ability,” said Mr. Glazer.

Corrections & Amplifications
An accused shooter used an AR-15 style rifle in April to attack a synagogue outside San Diego. An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated the attack occurred last month.

Write to Zusha Elinson at [email protected] and Cameron McWhirter at [email protected]

Appeared in the June 22, 2019, print edition.
 
I don't care if they have good intentions, and believe that by telling their (our), side will 'educate the public,
but everyone of these gun store owners that talk with the media needs a good old fashioned cock punch.

You're not f***ing helping things
one bit... just STFU!

"On a recent day at his store, Mr. Sweidan held up one of these modified AR-15s, pushed a button to break open the gun just a hair, dropped out the magazine, and popped a new one in. It took less than five seconds.

“You’re ready to go,” he said."

 
Personally, I believe that the real alternative to this anti gun sentiment is a simple, straight-synthetic-stock pump action in light gray, brown or tan that is short-stroke, equipped with a trigger disconnect for more rapid-fire, is of square modular design for quick barrel changes and has the whole rectangular receiver milled into a piccatinny rail for mounting optics or lasers and capable of accepting AR magazines. Short, light and capable of some rapid fire while not violating assault weapons bans , it would be a handy tool for home defense, hunting and target shooting.
 
1989...1999, you guys forget in california these gun buying people are 30 and 20 years old now respectively that were in born those years since these bans went into effect and it's all they know. like being blind from birth and not knowing any different. it's exactly the position the legislators want to be in, having the generations that are coming along not know any better.
 
I read this piece yesterday. Same old crap, no mention of the fact that a tiny percentage of crimes are committed using AR-15's. The comments are worth a read, some are pretty savage in their criticism of the article.
 
The gun-grabbers hate AR-15s because we like them as the cheap, simple solution to the modern musket.

And they are scary and bad people use them illegally a few times a year, even though millions own and use them safely and regularly for one of their many legal uses.
 
They can ban anything they want, next we will see an article saying
"Killers adjusting to skirt laws"
"Murdering tactics changing"
"Psychos getting better at psycho"
I can keep them coming.....
Once someone decides to break the law of violent murder, the rest does not matter to them, law or not, weapon or not.....
 
I don't care if they have good intentions, and believe that by telling their (our), side will 'educate the public,
but everyone of these gun store owners that talk with the media needs a good old fashioned cock punch.

You're not f***ing helping things
one bit... just STFU!

"On a recent day at his store, Mr. Sweidan held up one of these modified AR-15s, pushed a button to break open the gun just a hair, dropped out the magazine, and popped a new one in. It took less than five seconds.

“You’re ready to go,” he said."
Chances are good he thought he was demonstrating to a customer, not a reporter.
 
Most non-gun people probably dont hear a word the dealer said,
all they see is a "machine gun" regardless of the features, it does not matter to the anti-gun and non-gun, the just dont understand or care to understand,
 
I’m working on my death-ray gun invention in my basement. One trigger pull and it will emit a silent and continuous ray of a death with an effective range of 1000 yards.

Best of all, it’s not a firearm by definition in federal or state laws.
 
Personally, I believe that the real alternative to this anti gun sentiment is a simple, straight-synthetic-stock pump action in light gray, brown or tan that is short-stroke, equipped with a trigger disconnect for more rapid-fire, is of square modular design for quick barrel changes and has the whole rectangular receiver milled into a piccatinny rail for mounting optics or lasers and capable of accepting AR magazines. Short, light and capable of some rapid fire while not violating assault weapons bans , it would be a handy tool for home defense, hunting and target shooting.


Personally, I believe that the real alternative to this anti gun sentiment

Huh? The alternative to anti gun sentiment is pro gun sentiment. Gun banners want to ban guns. It's those evil awful military style assault weapons first. Then those "high capacity magazines". Then blah, blah, blah.

The firearm you describe above will simply have legislation written to ban it because gun banners ban guns. That's what they do. You are a peon and don't need a gun.
 
They can ban anything they want, next we will see an article saying
"Killers adjusting to skirt laws"
"Murdering tactics changing"
"Psychos getting better at psycho"
I can keep them coming.....
Once someone decides to break the law of violent murder, the rest does not matter to them, law or not, weapon or not.....

We'd never see that. They'd have to blame the people doing them for that.
 
"Car Makers adjust vehicles to skirt bans"

Since the 1960s, Government regulators have repeatedly tried to get unsafe cars off the roads. Rather than cease making these vehicles that kill tens of thousands of Americans each year, they simply change the designs to get around the bans.

“You try to make progress every year, and so do car manufacturers and their R&D departments,” Mr. Glazer said.

They have even gone as far as placing explosive devices in the dashboard, claiming they are safety devices.

A spokeswoman for the state attorney general declined to comment on the modified vehicles.
 
They can ban anything they want, next we will see an article saying
"Killers adjusting to skirt laws"
"Murdering tactics changing"
"Psychos getting better at psycho"
I can keep them coming.....
Once someone decides to break the law of violent murder, the rest does not matter to them, law or not, weapon or not.....
That would require truth-telling. Intentional truth-telling is not something anti-gunners are at all interested in.
 
Love the WSJ. They have a level head about a lot of topics. I don't always agree, but they have a level head.

Then they publish this. I saw it on Sat AM and shook my head. Attempted a "fair and balanced" piece and made it anything but.
 
"Car Makers adjust vehicles to skirt bans"

Since the 1960s, Government regulators have repeatedly tried to get unsafe cars off the roads. Rather than cease making these vehicles that kill tens of thousands of Americans each year, they simply change the designs to get around the bans.

“You try to make progress every year, and so do car manufacturers and their R&D departments,” Mr. Glazer said.

They have even gone as far as placing explosive devices in the dashboard, claiming they are safety devices.

A spokeswoman for the state attorney general declined to comment on the modified vehicles.

Yeah, like that whole seat belt law thing. The govt made a law that banned selling cars because they had no seat belts. Then the evil car manufacturers went around the law by putting in seat belts.
 
As soon as all semi auto rifles are banned, someone will notice that a pump shotgun is an assault weapon, like they did in AU, and those will go on the chopping block as well. Same with lever action rifles. It is completely predictable.
 
As soon as all semi auto rifles are banned, someone will notice that a pump shotgun is an assault weapon, like they did in AU, and those will go on the chopping block as well. Same with lever action rifles. It is completely predictable.

And those damned revolvers. They auto-load the next round. They fire EVERY time you pull the trigger. And the NEW ones? Some of them are 9mm HIGH CAPACITY - they hold 8 or 9 rounds. I know one guy who has a revolver that holds TEN rounds. (disclaimer - it's a S&W 617, .22 and that "guy" is me plus half a dozen of my friends).
 
again; once someone decides to commit violence, they do not care what weapon they end up using, the end result for them, is the same, using an ar15 or ar-chainsaw. they will use an ashtray if it came down to it.
 
Chances are good he thought he was demonstrating to a customer, not a reporter.
That's not the definition of "thought" we use in our household.

I’m working on my death-ray gun invention in my basement. One trigger pull and it will emit a silent and continuous ray of a death with an effective range of 1000 yards.
aa352feae47696ea7da98889d7a75b86.jpg

"Skirt bans" in other words follow your shit laws.
1478621861-hbz-hrc-pantsuit.gif
 
So by deliberately not breaking the (written word of the) law, you breaking the (intent of the) law?

Got it

Damn firearms makers following the law.
Bastards.

Isn't this how the MA AG came up with the "copycat" idea? Basically, there were laws saying guns could have THIS, but not THAT. So, gun makers followed the law, and made guns with THIS, but not THAT. Then, they got accused of making "copycat" guns.

Does this about sum it up?
???
 
Isn't this how the MA AG came up with the "copycat" idea? Basically, there were laws saying guns could have THIS, but not THAT. So, gun makers followed the law, and made guns with THIS, but not THAT. Then, they got accused of making "copycat" guns.

Does this about sum it up?
???
They didn't get the results they wanted so they just keep moving the goalposts.
 
"Car Makers adjust vehicles to skirt bans"

Since the 1960s, Government regulators have repeatedly tried to get unsafe cars off the roads. Rather than cease making these vehicles that kill tens of thousands of Americans each year, they simply change the designs to get around the bans.

“You try to make progress every year, and so do car manufacturers and their R&D departments,” Mr. Glazer said.

They have even gone as far as placing explosive devices in the dashboard, claiming they are safety devices.

A spokeswoman for the state attorney general declined to comment on the modified vehicles.
This is awesome
 
"Car Makers adjust vehicles to skirt bans"

Since the 1960s, Government regulators have repeatedly tried to get unsafe cars off the roads. Rather than cease making these vehicles that kill tens of thousands of Americans each year, they simply change the designs to get around the bans.

“You try to make progress every year, and so do car manufacturers and their R&D departments,” Mr. Glazer said.

They have even gone as far as placing explosive devices in the dashboard, claiming they are safety devices.

A spokeswoman for the state attorney general declined to comment on the modified vehicles.

In other words, there were certain features, either present or missing, that made cars unsafe. Making adjustments to remedy this situation would therefore make the car legal/lawful again, and also make it safer. Same with guns. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
I’m working on my death-ray gun invention in my basement. One trigger pull and it will emit a silent and continuous ray of a death with an effective range of 1000 yards.

Best of all, it’s not a firearm by definition in federal or state laws.
I honestly think that sooner rather than later someone somewhere could develop some sort of weapon that doesn’t at all fit the mold of “firearm”. When that happens it will be interesting to see how lawmakers scramble to address it.
 
Back
Top Bottom