Guns at home question

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I just have a quick question. I keep all my guns at home locked up. My wife doesn't have an LTC. If, God forbid, she's home alone one night and something happens at home and she needs to use one in self defense, how deep, exactly, is the $hit that she (or I) would be in? To be honest, as of right now, she wouldn't even know how to use it but I plan on taking her to the range and convincing her to get her own LTC. I was just curious.
 
I cant find it right now (Im sure that Im terrible at searching the forum) But I know there was a thread talking about exactally that situation somewhere.
 
A shooting WITH an LTC is often very risky because the outcome often depends on so many variables.

Adding the additional problem of 'no LTC' (assuming MA) just makes it worse. Even in a 'righteous shoot', I suspect there would likely be gun related charges.
 
She'd likely be in trouble for having a firearm without an LTC/FID, and you'd be in trouble because you didn't secure your guns. She also likely be alive and unraped.
 
I'm not so sure because I'm not aware of any case where a similar situation has been tested. The SJC may be considering the very question now in Runyan since the defendant's brief contends that all members of a household are 'authorized' users. McDonald (which is probably dependent on Runayn) could also change this dramatically as well.

Still, the simplest answer for legal and many other reasons is for your wife to get her LTC if she wants to and is worried about it.
 
She should get the same license that you have. If anything should happen to you she would be able to take ownership of all of your firearms and do what she wants with them (keep 'em, sell 'em, etc.). My next ex got her LTC A no restrictions for that very purpose. She doesn't shoot or even own a firearm, nor does she want to. She isn't against firearms at all, she just has zeeeero interest in them.
 
A perhaps more likely scary scenario is you go to the range on Saturday, toss your range bag in the backseat, and a magazine and/or a few rounds of ammunition fall out on the back seat. You don't notice them when you get home.

Your wife then drives your car on Sunday and gets stopped for speeding. Eagle-eyed Officer Friendly notices the magazine and/or ammo on the back seat and asks your wife for her LTC or FID. She doesn't have one. Now she's busted for illegal possession of ammunition and/or large capacity feeding device.

I agree with the other folks -- try to convince your wife to get an LTC.
 
IANAL.

This is exactly the situation that is the basis for the Scalia's opinion in Heller. I think that there could be the makings of a righteous brouhaha if a DA decided to prosecute.

In Connecticut, she would be OK.
 
There are lots of benefits to a wife getting an LTC...

We get to shoot together, on occasion.

She has full legal access to the guns when I'm not home.

She's MUCH more amenable to my 'hobby'.

She can take over possession/ownership at any time, if needed.
 
Honestly, as long as my wife is safe, I couldn't care less. I was just curious if maybe something like this had already happened for reference.

You'll definitely care when you're struggling to pay the legal fees.

Besides, what happens if she has to call the cops and they walk in to find her holding a gun, or you get hurt while you're carrying a gun and she has to take posession, or you die and the guns are left sitting in the estate? Hell, apart from the worst case scenario, there are plenty of likely situations in which your wife may find herself in possession of a firearm or related paraphernalia. What happens if you buy a box of ammo and forget it in the car, and she gets pulled over driving the car? Even an empty shell case on the floor board is a violation.

Besides, how effective is she going to be defending herself and the home with a gun if she can't take it to the range and shoot it?

Conclusion is that there are a lot of very good reasons why the wife of a gun owner should be licensed. If the two of you are smart, you'll get her licensed.
 
You'll definitely care when you're struggling to pay the legal fees.

Besides, what happens if she has to call the cops and they walk in to find her holding a gun, or you get hurt while you're carrying a gun and she has to take posession, or you die and the guns are left sitting in the estate? Hell, apart from the worst case scenario, there are plenty of likely situations in which your wife may find herself in possession of a firearm or related paraphernalia. What happens if you buy a box of ammo and forget it in the car, and she gets pulled over driving the car? Even an empty shell case on the floor board is a violation.

Besides, how effective is she going to be defending herself and the home with a gun if she can't take it to the range and shoot it?


Conclusion is that there are a lot of very good reasons why the wife of a gun owner should be licensed. If the two of you are smart, you'll get her licensed.

This is so true! She need's to learn if she is to use lethal force ONLY if there is no other option to retreat from the threat, she needs to shoot center mass and not just "go for the arm or leg to wound".

Have her get her LTC and also invest in pepper spray that can be reached easy by you guys and not your kids. Remember the use of deadly force is an last resort option only.

Be safe and good luck!
 
How much $h*t will you face? Well it's MA so you better believe you'll be under the microscope. In a state with nothing even close to a 'castle law' I would think that a shooting would result in a prosecution....

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

This is pretty much your answer. It's illegal for you to give her access and she's not a lawfully authorized user so you would most likely both be in pretty hot water in MA. How much faith do you have in a jury??????
 
You'll definitely care when you're struggling to pay the legal fees.

Besides, what happens if she has to call the cops and they walk in to find her holding a gun, or you get hurt while you're carrying a gun and she has to take posession, or you die and the guns are left sitting in the estate? Hell, apart from the worst case scenario, there are plenty of likely situations in which your wife may find herself in possession of a firearm or related paraphernalia. What happens if you buy a box of ammo and forget it in the car, and she gets pulled over driving the car? Even an empty shell case on the floor board is a violation.

Besides, how effective is she going to be defending herself and the home with a gun if she can't take it to the range and shoot it?

Conclusion is that there are a lot of very good reasons why the wife of a gun owner should be licensed. If the two of you are smart, you'll get her licensed.

I hear ya...I definitely plan on getting her licensed... It was mostly a question out of curiosity. She's willing to do it, she just wants to wait until after she has the baby. (she's 5 months pregnant)
 
LTC

there was a case many yrs ago on this same question.it was sort of taken care of but since 1998 law she would go to jail.
and thats what the antis want.they dont care about you they want all guns gone.the FID covered people but now it does not.
 
I hear ya...I definitely plan on getting her licensed... It was mostly a question out of curiosity. She's willing to do it, she just wants to wait until after she has the baby. (she's 5 months pregnant)
FYI, she can take a Home Firearm Safety class that does not involve any shooting or exposure to lead.
 
A perhaps more likely scary scenario is you go to the range on Saturday, toss your range bag in the backseat, and a magazine and/or a few rounds of ammunition fall out on the back seat. You don't notice them when you get home.

Your wife then drives your car on Sunday and gets stopped for speeding. Eagle-eyed Officer Friendly notices the magazine and/or ammo on the back seat and asks your wife for her LTC or FID. She doesn't have one. Now she's busted for illegal possession of ammunition and/or large capacity feeding device.

I agree with the other folks -- try to convince your wife to get an LTC.

IANAL, but...

Of course if you get pulled over and the officer notices unsecured/ not in direct control ammo in your back seat YOU are busted. If it is not on you lock in it a box and play it safe.

In the end the legal answer seems to be: In MA no license no gun.

I would be happy with a living and healthy wife with mounting legal fees vs dead or raped with other fees.
 
IANAL, but...
Indeed, you are not, because:

Of course if you get pulled over and the officer notices unsecured/ not in direct control ammo in your back seat YOU are busted. If it is not on you lock in it a box and play it safe.
There is no requirement to have your ammunition or magazines in a lockbox or under your direct control. The statute governing transport of guns in a car does not discuss ammunition or magazines.

I've posted this statute dozens of times, but, what the heck, I'll post it again:

Chapter 140: Section 131C. Carrying of firearms in a vehicle

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
As you can see, there is no mention of magazines or ammunition.

The issue in the scenario that I provided is not about the transport of the magazine or ammunition; it is possession. Possession is governed under MGL Chapter 140 Sections 129c and 131:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

You have to have an FID or LTC to possess ammunition or large capacity magazines. But there is no statute that requires that ammunition or magazines must be locked up while being transported in a vehicle. If you are going to assert otherwise, then provide your citation.
 
Then what about storage concerns when the car stops? Forget to lock the door and you have improperly stored ammo.

Since the storage CMR talks about how ammo needs to be properly stored when not in use and I figure anyone would be hard pressed to justify free floating ammo in the backseat of the car as in use or stored. Does the act of transportation preclude storage? Does that count for a locked car when the ammo is not in the trunk? I think it is far simpler just to lock the ammo (or components) and magazines in a separate box and have no worries.

So unltimately then my question is does 527 CMR 13.00 apply when you are driving your car? I figure it will apply as soon as you stop your car and park it. Even if you lock the car doors the ammo will not be in a box.
 
This was. a major concern I had. I had a good talk with the old lady fronted the cost and she did it. I am proud of her
 
Then what about storage concerns when the car stops? Forget to lock the door and you have improperly stored ammo.
1) How many police officers do you think have any idea what 527 CMR 13.00 is?
2) 13.06 governs transportation and it explicitly exempts small arms ammunition.
 
Every adult should have an LTC - more correctly, no adult should need an LTC...

That said, if you have one in the house, every adult should get one. For all the reasons discussed in this thread - it is a legal hassle waiting to happen and you are a felon if you hand over your keys/combos to a non-LTC'er in your house...
 
1) How many police officers do you think have any idea what 527 CMR 13.00 is?
2) 13.06 governs transportation and it explicitly exempts small arms ammunition.

1. I am only concerned with the one that knows and happens to find me.
2. Thanks.
 
How much $h*t will you face? Well it's MA so you better believe you'll be under the microscope. In a state with nothing even close to a 'castle law' I would think that a shooting would result in a prosecution....

Sorry, Skeeter, I need to correct you on this (happened to be looking at this just yesterday) ... Massachusetts *does* appear to have a castle law.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/278-8a.htm
 
Quick question - wouldn't M. G. L. ch. 269, sec. 10, (a) (1) apply (along with the "castle law" M.G.L. ch 278, sec 8A)?

Chapter 269: Section 10. Carrying dangerous weapons; possession of machine gun or sawed-off shotguns; possession of large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device; punishment

Section 10. (a) Whoever, except as provided or exempted by statute, knowingly has in his possession; or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle; a firearm, loaded or unloaded, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty without either:

(1) being present in or on his residence or place of business; or

Just curious ...
 
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