Harvard Sportsmen's Club

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
7,965
Likes
9,487
Location
MA
From what I recall, they've gone through the gates logs in the past when certain incidents had occurred.
I don’t think this issue deserves such an escalation, but to send it out in the weekly presidential email would make sense.
 
Last edited:

kalash

NES Member
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
11,021
Likes
13,620
The reality is that you will always have a few people who have no respect for club property. So the question is whether you think it's better to a) turn the club into a police state with cameras, sign-in sheets, etc (what's next, ROs?), or b) if it's better to just deal with occasional damage and trash but keep the club "free".

I'm solidly in camp (b) - the club has a reputation for not having a ton of overbearing rules. Then again I'm not the one cleaning up (although I volunteer my time in other ways every year).
 

MC56

NES Member
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
136
Likes
162
The reality is that you will always have a few people who have no respect for club property. So the question is whether you think it's better to a) turn the club into a police state with cameras, sign-in sheets, etc (what's next, ROs?), or b) if it's better to just deal with occasional damage and trash but keep the club "free".

I'm solidly in camp (b) - the club has a reputation for not having a ton of overbearing rules. Then again I'm not the one cleaning up (although I volunteer my time in other ways every year).
There is definitely an in-between. Logs and ROs are a pain in the ass and not needed, but I'm not at all opposed to a few cameras so that they have a method of investigation and can kick out the a**h***s.
 

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
42,978
Likes
24,657
The cameras at Hopkinton were used to solve the great lost brass bag mystery. Someone on NES was mourning the loss of his favorite brass bag (a really nice cloth one). We traced the bag from when that shooter left it downrange, to when another shooter moved it back to the table under the shelter, to a club volunteer on cleanup duty picking it up for the lost and found and finally arranged for its return.

Suppose someone puts multiple holes in the ceiling of the indoor range and the club uses logs/cameras so they can track down the person to have a friendly chat to see if they are a jerk or in need of a marksmanship improvement plan? Is that police state or protecting club property? And what if electronic logging systems not only assure that only paid members can access the ranges but also show the club what people who are unclear on the concept of annual dues still try to use the club?

Cameras/access control are a completely separate issue from ROs. I know of some decision makers who both support those but have an "over my dead body" reaction to ROs. Being able to track down damage via camera can reduce the call for ROs and attended hours only.
 

kalash

NES Member
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
11,021
Likes
13,620
I'm pretty sure that cameras have been used at the club in the past, although I believe there aren't any permanent installations (except for the one at the gate). I could be wrong.
 

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
42,978
Likes
24,657
I'm pretty sure that cameras have been used at the club in the past, although I believe there aren't any permanent installations (except for the one at the gate). I could be wrong.
The gate camera was added after vandalism to the gate which was pretty much certainly from an outside agitator.
 

Mesatchornug

Instructor
NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
7,372
Likes
13,012
Location
People's Republik
Isn't there a game camera at the back 40 range, mounted to the one of the support poles for the roof thingy? Maybe it is only used for animal monitoring?
good eyes. there are a handful of game cams around he club, used by certain range chairs where they see benefit.
 

Mesatchornug

Instructor
NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
7,372
Likes
13,012
Location
People's Republik
Just picked up 10+ blown up soda bottles at the 100yd. By the looks of it, the person who left this trash is a bad shot. Lots of .223 sized holes grazing these bottles. Be better and clean your trash up, especially if you can’t shoot worth a damn.
Thank you for helping keep our club better than you found it
 

ddeck22

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
286
Likes
492
good eyes. there are a handful of game cams around he club, used by certain range chairs where they see benefit.
There are more sophisticated cameras elsewhere. After a particular incident, I was contacted based on the gate camera/logs. I had noticed what happened but there was no contact information to tell anyone. Cameras were added and there is now a sign indicating that if you see anything, you should report it immediately.

Based on the plate rack situation, I believe more cameras will be placed around.
 

kalash

NES Member
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
11,021
Likes
13,620
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
 

AHM

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
20,419
Likes
24,885
Location
Some caves off Route 40 past Groton
To anyone on here that plans on helping out on the 22nd could you please email me at [email protected] with the subject "work party"
I would like to get a head count and also we can start at 8am instead of 7:30
Stay hydrated. Usually it's not a big damned deal,
but this weekend will be an exception.

Is there no check-in log/procedure to know who was there?
No, we're not a fudd club.
Choices have consequences.

Unless only a single person entered during the whole day, the log won't tell you anything.
This isn't rocket surgery; it doesn't require geometric logic.

I'm pretty sure that if my club's CRO saw that,
he'd be using the log to contact all of the old-timers
who were on-site that day to ask if they saw anyone
shooting at soda bottles.
And there's a pretty good chance he'd figure out who did it,
and nip it in the bud.

And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
It had better not happen again.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
7,965
Likes
9,487
Location
MA
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
'the right to shoot down chains shall not be infringed'? is that the point you`re making?

as i`ve lost track of what your point was.
 

ddeck22

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
286
Likes
492
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
Based on what I saw, a one time miss is OK, it happens. But if you do it more than once, it's clear there is intent to cause damage. From what I saw, it wasn't just a one time miss, there were multiple shots way off target. Either the person did it on purpose, or there was a major malfunction. This was not at the 100 yard range.


But, for all the range chair knows, without cameras, everyone can just say, "It wasn't me." And who do you believe?

Definitely a fine line that the board and range chairs have to walk.
 
Last edited:

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
7,965
Likes
9,487
Location
MA
Based on what I saw, a one time miss is OK, it happens. But if you do it more than once, it's clear
it is more than clear.
red circles - it was all done in one day, after i secured the plate back - upper links had no dings yet. it has to be one or two individuals only as it does not happen all the time, and (mostly) does not happen during winter.
also note how chain mid section has no dings at all. @ssholes.

1653067997837.png
 
Last edited:

andrew1220

NES Member
Rating - 100%
148   0   0
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
19,631
Likes
19,895
Location
North Shore
it is more than clear.
red circles - it was all done in one day, after i secured the plate back - upper links had no dings yet. it has to be one or two individuals only as it does not happen all the time, and does not happen during winter.
also note how chain mid section has no dings at all. @ssholes.

View attachment 618082
At first I was assuming it was someone who’s a shitty shot. But the fact that there’s no hits further down the chain has me thinking otherwise 😂
 
Top Bottom