-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
HELP I messed up my J frame!
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
So I put the side plate back on and now the cylinder will not open.
Fixxah
NES Member
I am not a gunsmith but I would take the side plate off again and see if you F**ked with something you should not have. I wait to see how you make out since I plan on doing something similar in the near future just because I can.
Mikey and Fixxah... often the bottom of the hammer block does not sit into the groove cut into the sideplate when you don't put it back in the correct position. Try again.
Fixxah, if you've never removed a sideplate from a S&W before, let me show you or lend you a book. It's not hard, but it's all technique.... no force required.
Fixxah, if you've never removed a sideplate from a S&W before, let me show you or lend you a book. It's not hard, but it's all technique.... no force required.
And no prying it off!
In addition to the (useless) hammer block not seating in its race, sometimes the rebound slide is not fully seated (often finding that the rebound spring is not fully seated against its pin).
Before reading this thread again and after further review I ended up messing things up even more...
I figured it had something to do with the hammer block so I opened it up again and ended up losing the spring that holds the sear in place...
I might try to get out to S&W today and see if they can fix it without having to leave it.
Fixxah I thought I knew what I was doing but obviously not, don't try it unless you are sure. It is funny how springs just vanish into thin air...![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I figured it had something to do with the hammer block so I opened it up again and ended up losing the spring that holds the sear in place...
I might try to get out to S&W today and see if they can fix it without having to leave it.
Fixxah I thought I knew what I was doing but obviously not, don't try it unless you are sure. It is funny how springs just vanish into thin air...
I desroyed my 627 doing something similar. I broke off a tab under the cover in the frame. I sent it back to S&W and got the gun back with a new frame free of charge. Despite that, however, I learnt my lesson and will never remove the cover on a j frame again.
45collector
NES Member
Yeah those S&W revolvers can be tricky to get back together. The hammer block is usually the part that gives the most trouble. I'm wondering why the cylinder won't open though. If the hammer is cocked even slightly, the cylinder release lever will not move forward. check to make sure your hammer spring & strut are seated properly in the frame, then make sure the hammer block fits into the recess in the side plate before trying to screw the sideplate home.
Rob Boudrie
NES Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 48,965
- Likes
- 36,444
If you can get out to Hopkinton at about 6PM tonight (www.hsasports.com for directions), I will be glad to help you.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,488
- Likes
- 6,401
Any gun smith or decent gun shop person should be able to put it together. It can be tricky, everything needs to be in the right place. If you were closer I'd offer to help you out.
Jerry Miculek put out a video on how to take down and clean an S&W revolver. I recommend it, I'd never have been able to get mine back together without it.
Jerry Miculek put out a video on how to take down and clean an S&W revolver. I recommend it, I'd never have been able to get mine back together without it.
Last edited:
I won't be able to get out there but thanks for the offer Rob.
Mikey, Jerry Kuhnhausen puts out a great shop manual on the S&W revolver. There's nothing to be afraid of once you learn a couple of things. You've already learned them. The spring can shoot out. (LOL..no offense) It happens to all of us sometime.
The S&W is really very easy to service. Much easier than putting a Ruger MKII back together.
What happened to you was the hammer block wasn't seated correctly on the pin that protrudes from the hammer return spring block. That caused the hammer block to tie up the sliding latch for the cylinder, but also put pressure on the return spring. When you opened it up the second time, the hammer block and the trigger return spring popped out. Really no big deal. Though most people who take them apart regularly have a small screwdriver like tool to re-set the trigger return spring, you can do it without the special tool if you are patient and use a small screwdriver or awl or jewlers screwdriver.
If you go to S&W, pick up Kuhnhausen's book. It the basic reference everyone uses, and probably the best. The manual is about $20. Since the guts of almost all S&W revolvers are the same, give or take one or two variations, the book will let you do almost anything to a Smith & Wesson by yourself. There are very few special tools you need, other than the trigger return spring tool, which is about $9 at Brownells.
Trying to take one apart without a picture for reference is tough. I don't have the URL, but try looking at "Steves" manuals and see a picture of the guts of the gun with the sideplate off. Once you have something to compare your gun too.... it makes it a lot easier.
I don't know where you're located, but almost any decent gunsmith would have the springs on hand, everybody loses them.
Good luck. If I can help, PM me.
Bill
The S&W is really very easy to service. Much easier than putting a Ruger MKII back together.
What happened to you was the hammer block wasn't seated correctly on the pin that protrudes from the hammer return spring block. That caused the hammer block to tie up the sliding latch for the cylinder, but also put pressure on the return spring. When you opened it up the second time, the hammer block and the trigger return spring popped out. Really no big deal. Though most people who take them apart regularly have a small screwdriver like tool to re-set the trigger return spring, you can do it without the special tool if you are patient and use a small screwdriver or awl or jewlers screwdriver.
If you go to S&W, pick up Kuhnhausen's book. It the basic reference everyone uses, and probably the best. The manual is about $20. Since the guts of almost all S&W revolvers are the same, give or take one or two variations, the book will let you do almost anything to a Smith & Wesson by yourself. There are very few special tools you need, other than the trigger return spring tool, which is about $9 at Brownells.
Trying to take one apart without a picture for reference is tough. I don't have the URL, but try looking at "Steves" manuals and see a picture of the guts of the gun with the sideplate off. Once you have something to compare your gun too.... it makes it a lot easier.
I don't know where you're located, but almost any decent gunsmith would have the springs on hand, everybody loses them.
Good luck. If I can help, PM me.
Bill
Well I just called S&W and they said they can't help me other the usual drop it off and we will call you, which would be fine but this is my carry gun...
Thanks for the info Bill, I will make a few more phone calls and see if I can find any help today.
Thanks for the info Bill, I will make a few more phone calls and see if I can find any help today.
Mikey, most of the gunshops I visit keep the shop manuals for S&W, Colt and a few others in stock. All by Kuhnhausen. You should be able to find it anywhere, or have Amazn shipit overnight.
Again, call a few places that do repairs and just ask if they have the trigger return spring in stock.
Now with a newer gun, with the internal lock, there are one or two extra pieces that can get slightly jammed, but again, no big deal if you have a picture to compare it to.
Again, call a few places that do repairs and just ask if they have the trigger return spring in stock.
Now with a newer gun, with the internal lock, there are one or two extra pieces that can get slightly jammed, but again, no big deal if you have a picture to compare it to.
Mikey, the picture you show is a 637. Your model 60 is listed in E-gunparts.com as the sear spring. It's a part common on the J frames of all model numbers
Your gun is newer than anything I told you about. You don't have the same parts after 1999. You don't have the hammer block or the pin on the trigger return. I have an schematic for your gun and it lists the spring as ""sear spring"
Looking at the photo you posted, you can almost see its function.
When you cock the gun single action, the hammer slips off the sear, and that spring pushes the sear out of the way so the hammer can drop when you pull the trigger.
When you shoot double action, the trigger pushes up the sear until the release point, and the spring then pushes the sear away from the hammer.
Should be even easier to replace than the trigger return spring... once you find one.
Numrich gun parts lists it as a sear spring, part #297270. Check them on line at:
www.e-gunparts.com
Or call 866-686-7424. The part lists for $1.35
You could probably have the part in hand Friday or Saturday if you wanted overnight delivery.
Your gun is newer than anything I told you about. You don't have the same parts after 1999. You don't have the hammer block or the pin on the trigger return. I have an schematic for your gun and it lists the spring as ""sear spring"
Looking at the photo you posted, you can almost see its function.
When you cock the gun single action, the hammer slips off the sear, and that spring pushes the sear out of the way so the hammer can drop when you pull the trigger.
When you shoot double action, the trigger pushes up the sear until the release point, and the spring then pushes the sear away from the hammer.
Should be even easier to replace than the trigger return spring... once you find one.
Numrich gun parts lists it as a sear spring, part #297270. Check them on line at:
www.e-gunparts.com
Or call 866-686-7424. The part lists for $1.35
You could probably have the part in hand Friday or Saturday if you wanted overnight delivery.
Last edited:
I ended up dropping it off at S&W, I called a bunch of shops and gunsmiths but nobody could help me out right away. So I figured if it was going to take some time I might as well have S&W do it and maybe it will be free.
Thanks for all the help guys and I will definitely learn a little more about the insides of the revolver before going crazy again.
Thanks for all the help guys and I will definitely learn a little more about the insides of the revolver before going crazy again.
While I agree that detail stripping S&W DA revolvers is not that hard once you've read "the book," there is almost no reason for a non-trained revolver owner to do it unless their revolver is malfunctioning.
Once a year, do the following:
Put a fraction of a drop of light gun oil on the left side of the hammer, right where it descends into the frame, about midway between the front and the back. Put the revolver upright in the safe and leave it for a couple of days.
Now turn the revolver upside down and put an equally small drop of oil on the left side of the trigger, right where it ascends into the frame. Put the revolver in the safe for a day or two resting upside down.
Finally, remove the stocks, cock the hammer, and you'll see the after end of the rebound slide under the hammer. Put a tiny bit of oil on both the left and right sides of the rebound slide and store the revolver muzzle down for a day or two.
Odds are your revolver will remain functional longer than you live.
Once a year, do the following:
Put a fraction of a drop of light gun oil on the left side of the hammer, right where it descends into the frame, about midway between the front and the back. Put the revolver upright in the safe and leave it for a couple of days.
Now turn the revolver upside down and put an equally small drop of oil on the left side of the trigger, right where it ascends into the frame. Put the revolver in the safe for a day or two resting upside down.
Finally, remove the stocks, cock the hammer, and you'll see the after end of the rebound slide under the hammer. Put a tiny bit of oil on both the left and right sides of the rebound slide and store the revolver muzzle down for a day or two.
Odds are your revolver will remain functional longer than you live.
RKG, I agree with how you treat a nice pistol.
I'm the kind that like to take things apart. I bought a few "not so nice" Smith & Wesson's, Jerry K's book and a few parts catalogs, and decided to get inside a few old cheap guns.
It got me addicted to Smith's, and you never know when you can develop another S&W Aficionado who appreciate the minutia of their form and function.
I'm the kind that like to take things apart. I bought a few "not so nice" Smith & Wesson's, Jerry K's book and a few parts catalogs, and decided to get inside a few old cheap guns.
It got me addicted to Smith's, and you never know when you can develop another S&W Aficionado who appreciate the minutia of their form and function.
I love S&W, for both brining firearms to the community and for all they have done for GOAL, but I will give Bill Ruger (regardless of his greater than ten rounds is evil philosophy) his due regarding simplicity. A Super Red Hawk breaks down into less than a dozen pieces, whereas a S&W is over two dozen. And then it takes longer to figure out what the hell you took apart just to put it back together. With the Rugers I have had, the take down manuals where close to the the design blueprints.
For what is worth, take a break from the gun and get back to it in the morning.
For what is worth, take a break from the gun and get back to it in the morning.
Bear in mind that the S&W DA revolver design was basically completed in 1896, 112 years ago. (There have been some changes since, such as the hammer block (useless) and the right hand threads on the ejector rod (useful), but they are minor.)
The design is exquisite, especially for its time. But the fact of the matter is that no one would emulate that design today, simply because exquisite is not always the best way to go. Amongst other things, until comparatively recently, all S&W DA revolvers were hand fit during original manufacture, and there existed no detailed dimensional design drawings.
On the other hand, no one -- not Colt, not Ruger, not anyone else -- has ever come up with a DA revolver that is as smooth in action, as consistent in function, and as reliable as the S&W DA revolver.
The design is exquisite, especially for its time. But the fact of the matter is that no one would emulate that design today, simply because exquisite is not always the best way to go. Amongst other things, until comparatively recently, all S&W DA revolvers were hand fit during original manufacture, and there existed no detailed dimensional design drawings.
On the other hand, no one -- not Colt, not Ruger, not anyone else -- has ever come up with a DA revolver that is as smooth in action, as consistent in function, and as reliable as the S&W DA revolver.
