Help me choose a new gun

[pjorg]

My Class A LTC came in the mail last week, and so the time has come to make my first purchase.

I don't have extensive time on any given gun, but I've put 50–100 rounds through each of the following:

• Glock 27
• Beretta 92FS
• Sig P245
• S&W M&P9

I liked the Glock, but want to stay away from anything in .40 caliber. The Beretta was great, if slightly large (I'd prefer something that I could carry concealed if I ever get my restrictions lifted).

I was out at Smith & Wesson in Springfield this past weekend and took the opportunity to shoot the M&P9 since it had been recommended to me in a previous post (http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...than-3-weeks?p=1542202&viewfull=1#post1542202), and is very affordable. I liked the trigger pull, but the handfeel wasn't quite right (or at least, unfamiliar). I shot OK with it, but not my best.

This leaves the Sig, which I really loved. I would kind of prefer to have a new gun for my first buy since I'm not really at a point yet where I can properly evaluate the quality of a used one, and since you can't get a P245 new anymore that's out. The P220 looks like it could work for me, though.

The only other thing that enters my mind is the cost of ammunition. Since I'm still new, I figure that if there's a substantial savings to be had by going with the 9mm over .45 cal, then I'd rather do that so I can spend more time at the range actually shooting.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on all this.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

Glocks are glocks - some love 'em, some hate 'em - they are good polymer guns IMO - but also IMO not worth the MA premium. S&WM&Ps are fine also, provided the trigger is fixed, though the need for a separate take down tool does bother me personally, but not a lot. Sigs are great, but pricey - lots of models, features, calibers etc. Find one that fits you well as they can vary between models. Beretta's are good value guns, but as noted, they are fairly large and bulky.

Choosing a firearm for a specific purpose is loaded with caveats and trade-offs, you need to figure out what you are willing to comprimise. Good luck.

ETA: I personally prefer 1911 style, SAO firearms. Nowadays they come in so many sizes, calibers and capacities - there is a 1911 set-up for almost every specific need. Parts and smiths are all over the place - and enough of a cult following you can get enough info on the webs, through books and classes to fix/tune them yourself. But thats just me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

S&WM&Ps are fine also, provided the trigger is fixed, though the need for a separate take down tool does bother me personally, but not a lot.

Choosing a firearm for a specific purpose is loaded with caveats and trade-offs, you need to figure out what you are willing to comprimise. Good luck.

ETA: I personally prefer 1911 style, SAO firearms. Nowadays they come in so many sizes, calibers and capacities - there is a 1911 set-up for almost every specific need. But thats just me.

First things first, if you live in Boston, they will never lift your restrictions . . . not unless you carry LOTS of cash every day as part of your job or are politically connected at the highest levels.

As for the M&P, you need to try it with 2 or all 3 grips to figure out what fits/shoots best. Not sure you can do that at S&W SC, but you'd have to ask. I have NEVER used the "takedown tool". I use my fingernail, screwdriver or tip of a cartridge/case/cleaning rod to push the lever down. No big deal. I just don't feel a need to disassemble the grip to do this.

Agreed on the 1911. Awesome platform, available in 9mm as well as .45 and I even like it as a CCW gun.

 

[wolf223]

92FS or M&P9

i own both and they are good guns, totally different animals throgh....... as you said, cost of ammo is a big factor.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

from one Boston resident to another, pjorg, I can say with almost complete certainty - you will never get the restrictions lifted. Though some have done so, as LenS stated, under a very specific set of circumstances that few can prove. Small business owner, handle cash large sums of cash, work as a criminal lawyer, MD, previous victim of violent crime, certified firearms instructor, nonres permits in every other state in the union etc etc. (I know of folks who exhibit a few of the previous cases did have their restrictions lifted in Boston)

Just go for full size pistols, more fun that way anyhow.

 

[TheRoland]

I use my fingernail, screwdriver or tip of a cartridge/case/cleaning rod to push the lever down. No big deal. I just don't feel a need to disassemble the grip to do this.

Not to derail, but is there any reason not to just pull the trigger (apart from the rules violation)?

I own an M&P and a Sig, and shoot the M&P better. As you improve, there's a big enough difference between the double action and single action trigger pulls to cause problems. This can be fixed with practice but, IMHO, the practice is better spent elsewhere. Take the technological advantage where you can.

Cost of ammo is a big factor. I shoot several times more 9mm than .45, even though I'm a 1911 nut. In Sig's price range, there are some pretty decent 1911s, but it'll cost more to feed them (9mm Sig vs. .45 1911). I'd take a 1911 over a P220, though.

I have no opinion on the Glock. If you like it, great. If you don't, don't.

The beretta is a nice gun, but the double/single action is the same problem as the Sig, and the safety is a big pain if you ever get into action shooting, like IDPA or IPSC.

 

[pjorg]

Thanks all for the insight thusfar.

First things first, if you live in Boston, they will never lift your restrictions . . .

from one Boston resident to another, pjorg, I can say with almost complete certainty - you will never get the restrictions lifted.

I live in Boston right now, but that is unlikely to be the case for all eternity. Nonetheless, I appreciate the idea that as long as I do concealed carry is just not going to happen. Maybe it shouldn't be a factor in my very first purchase.

 

[pjorg]

Cost of ammo is a big factor. I shoot several times more 9mm than .45, even though I'm a 1911 nut. In Sig's price range, there are some pretty decent 1911s, but it'll cost more to feed them (9mm Sig vs. .45 1911). I'd take a 1911 over a P220, though.

I have no opinion on the Glock. If you like it, great. If you don't, don't.

Thanks Roland. It sounds like 9mm would be the way to go to start out.

As far as the Glock, I liked it, but I'm not in love with it. There are plenty of other great guns available in Mass that I don't feel compelled to overpay for one due to the artificial scarcity.

 

[Dream to Dream]

Not to derail, but is there any reason not to just pull the trigger (apart from the rules violation)?

Depends whether or not your model has the magazine disconnect safety.

Since the trigger can't be engaged without a mag, you need to insert a magazine to pull the trigger and then remove it in order to pull off the slide. This means dropping the mag, clearing the chamber, and either using a spare empty mag or emptying a full mag to do the takedown, either of which is a PITA.

Or you could clear the chamber and then insert a loaded magazine, but that's... kinda scary.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MUCH easier to just push the lever down with a pen/pencil/screwdriver or empty shell casing!!

 

[Jose]

S&WM&Ps are fine also, provided the trigger is fixed, though the need for a separate take down tool does bother me personally, but not a lot.

There is no need to use a take down tool. There is no need to flip down the sear disconnect lever AT ALL.

Lock the slide back. Turn down the takedown lever. Release the slide and RIDE IT DOWN to battery. Hold the slide and pull the trigger. Push slide off the frame.

 

[imstuner]

Did you look into the Sig 239?

For the price SWmp40c with a tigger job.

I have a Sig 239 and like it better then my glock 27 and mp40c.

I think you should try all 3 guns and then make a choice.

 

[drumenigma]

I liked the Glock, but want to stay away from anything in .40 caliber. The Beretta was great, if slightly large (I'd prefer something that I could carry concealed if I ever get my restrictions lifted).

If you want to buy something that you can conceal in the future if you do get the restrictions lifted perhaps you can look at something like the M+P9c instead of a full size. That way you can get the practice on it now and when/if you do get them lifted you'll be gtg when you do carry.

 

[TheRoland]

If you want to buy something that you can conceal in the future if you do get the restrictions lifted perhaps you can look at something like the M+P9c instead of a full size. That way you can get the practice on it now and when/if you do get them lifted you'll be gtg when you do carry.

Practice on the full-size version of a gun often translates pretty well to the compact version, too. You just have to adjust how much sight-picture you get for longer shots.

 

[pjorg]

I think you should try all 3 guns and then make a choice.

Where does one go to rent guns in Mass?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Where does one go to rent guns in Mass?

AFS in No. Attleboro
Bob's in Salisbury
MFL in Manchester NH

or a NES Shoot . . . just bring ammo and no rental fee required.

 

[pjorg]

AFS in No. Attleboro
Bob's in Salisbury
MFL in Manchester NH

Thanks!

or a NES Shoot . . . just bring ammo and no rental fee required.

This sounds good. I was hoping to have made a purchase before September 25, but maybe waiting is best...

Who among you that are going is feeling generous? What type/how much ammo should I bring? This will be my first shoot, so not sure what the routine is.

 

[drumenigma]

Practice on the full-size version of a gun often translates pretty well to the compact version, too. You just have to adjust how much sight-picture you get for longer shots.

True but if he's looking to only buy the one gun in the long term and not buy a full size and compact he might be better off buying the compact unless he feels he can conceal the fullsize easily enough which I would say get the full size.

 

[jasons]

want to stay away from anything in .40 caliber.

Don't listen to the NES thought police, .40 is a fine caliber. That said, if you like the G27 but prefer 9mm find a G26. Or a G19, which is a bit bigger but easier (and cheaper) to find in MA.

If you liked the Sig but want 9mm take a look at the P229. If I were you I'd probably get a P229 in 9mm but that's just because I happen to prefer Sigs.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This sounds good. I was hoping to have made a purchase before September 25, but maybe waiting is best...

Who among you that are going is feeling generous? What type/how much ammo should I bring? This will be my first shoot, so not sure what the routine is.

Waiting a few weeks to make sure that what you buy is what you'll be happy with can be a wise move. My first gun (rifle) was bought because my Wife finally said "OK, if you want one" after talking with a Texan in a sporting goods store. That gun was a mistake and a few months later it was replaced and sold. I've similarly made a few other mistakes along the way, in each case they cost me money.

I'm RO'g a good part of the 9/25 shoot. As long as I'm on the same range, I can bring a few guns in 9mm (G17 and M&P 9 w/trigger job), 40 (G22 and G23) and/or 45 (1911 and M&P 45 w/trigger job) if you want to try them out. Just bring standard factory ammo (jacketed/clad only). And ping me via Email a few days prior to the shoot (can do this off my username on any post) with what you wish me to bring.

 

[glostamon]

I dont belive you mentioned a price range..but a few 9mm suggestions I'd consider

High end - USP9c
Middle of the road - Sig 229
inexpensive - Ruger SR9c

 

[pjorg]

I dont belive you mentioned a price range...

No, I sure didn't. Probably would go as high as $800 for the right gun.

 

[pjorg]

I'm RO'g a good part of the 9/25 shoot. As long as I'm on the same range, I can bring a few guns in 9mm (G17 and M&P 9 w/trigger job), 40 (G22 and G23) and/or 45 (1911 and M&P 45 w/trigger job) if you want to try them out. Just bring standard factory ammo (jacketed/clad only). And ping me via Email a few days prior to the shoot (can do this off my username on any post) with what you wish me to bring.

Thanks LenS, that's very kind. I'll touch base with you in a few weeks.

 

[crazymjb]

+ Another for the sig. I absolutely love em. If you get a P229 in .40 cal you can pick up a 9mm conversion barrel for less than 200 bucks, and .22 conversions are also available.

Mike

 

[imstuner]

Where does one go to rent guns in Mass?

I'll let you shoot my glock 27, 36, MP 9 full size with target trigger from Greg Derr, Sig 1911 gsr, Para GI expert 1911, Ruger sr9c, and sig 239 if you go to Braintree pistol club. You bring your own ammo you shoot.

 

[XTAV750]

When I bought my first gun after I got my LTC-A I got the one I always wanted - a 1911. I shot that until I felt ready to CCW, then I bought a smaller gun for that purpose. I would say, get the gun you're going to enjoy the most at the range, and if you ever move out of Boston and get the restriction lifted, get a CCW then. Just my .02.

Where does one go to rent guns in Mass?

If you can get up to Manchester Firing Line, I would highly recommend them. They're great people and have a fantastic facility. http://www.gunsnh.com/


Good luck and congrats on the LTC!

 

[ramp1516]

In my opinion, I recommend Glock 19 for the following reasons:

1) meets criteria of 9MM ( very managable recoil)
2) Almost as concealable as G27 but better sight radus
3) High capacity mags - 15+
4) Simplicity of design / operation
5) strong history of field use globally
6) Many aftermarket custom parts available
5) Extremely reliable ( I have had one for 15+ years & not a single jam with all kind of ammo, including reloads)

 

[pjorg]

I'll let you shoot my glock 27, 36, MP 9 full size with target trigger from Greg Derr, Sig 1911 gsr, Para GI expert 1911, Ruger sr9c, and sig 239 if you go to Braintree pistol club. You bring your own ammo you shoot.

Thanks imstunner! I'll PM you.

 

[Skald]

If you shoot the M&P series, make sure you base you decision based on ones with the trigger jobs and/or the Apeks kits. There is a huge difference.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Its a tough choice, I got my LTC 2 months ago and just bought my third pistol today!!
92fs is a really fun gun to shoot, I also bought a sig mosquito, very fun and very cheap to shoot, today I picked up a M&P 40C put 100 rounds through it, very happy