Help with an CAR 15 build

[JRT]

I want to build out a CAR 15 type AR. What are your thoughts on the correct stock, I see lots of pics of both out on the internet, I'm interested in your thoughts. Give me a comment on your hand guard preference if you feel inclined.

I'm feeling fixed stock with the round hand guard. Classy twenty round mags of course!

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Wouldn't both be correct depending on which time period you're trying to clone?

 

[BillO]

Looks like an NFA SBR project.

 

[TrashcanDan]

Manditory N.E.S. response- Build both.

I was never a fan of those triangular handgaurds. Hated em in basic.
Collapsible if I had the option.

 

[Picton]

Your AR aesthetic matches mine.

I’d go collapsible. To me, the fixed stock only looks right with full-length triangle handguards. If you’re going for the GAU5/XM177 vibe, you gotta go collapsible. With Colt Commando guards.

 

[eboos]

I'm want to build out a CAR 15

 

[BarnBuilder]

I have a Pre Ban Eagle Arms XM177 built exactly as seen below.

 

[JRT]

Wouldn't both be correct depending on which time period you're trying to clone?

This seems to be fact, I'm probably more inclined to the aesthetic than staying true to the clone. This probably infuriates the clone people.

 

[JRT]

Looks like an NFA SBR project.

SBR for sure, I have some lowers already approved.

 

[Picton]

This seems to be fact, I'm probably more inclined tp the aesthetic than staying true to the clone. This probably infuriates the clone people.

They can suck it.

As long as it has a 20-rounder and an A1 carry handle, that’s the important part.

 

[JRT]

I have a Pre Ban Eagle Arms XM177 built exactly as seen below.



View attachment 507334

The long flash hider is in a lot of the pics I see, I think I will use an SBRed lower for the build since in all likelihood I will run it suppressed.

 

[BillO]

That's what I would do if suppressors were allowed in Massachusetts. Love the CAR-15; great choice.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Get out of my head!

I'm considering the same build, just sent my prints in yesterday for the lower. I prefer the later (second pic) version with the collapsible stock and round/ridged hg.

 

[Dench]

Looks like the Colt Commando CAR-15 line had no hard and fast standard since they were farting around with trying to figure out how to do it.

M16 rifle series - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

www.imfdb.org

OP posted one of the pics from here already, but the 607, 609, 610, etc all have differences. I'd say pick one, see if you can find the parts for that one, and if so go from there. If not pick another one.

Colt was selling the retro line for full blown rape prices and Colt being Colt they made like 8 of them and sold out instantly since their main business goal is going out of business.

XM177E2 Colt's Manufacturing LLC

The upper for that can be bought here Colt XM177E2 / GAU-5A/A / CAR-15 / model 629, 630 Commando / US Air Force (1967-1970)


The Colt classic rifle itself can still be found on gunbroker Colt XM177E2 AR-15 Retro Reissue Carbine 5.56 NATO AR15 16” 20+1... - Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com : 906813504

 

[JRT]

Get out of my head!

I'm considering the same build, just sent my prints in yesterday for the lower. I prefer the later (second pic) version with the collapsible stock and round/ridged hg.

I’m not sure why but the A1 stock really put the hook in me. I think the right answer is probably the collapsible, it was supposed to be short overall. Like @C. Stockwell pointed out upthread they are probably both correct. They moved to the collapsible to make it even smaller which is probably the design intent.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

They moved to the collapsible to make it even smaller which is probably the design intent.

This was exactly my line of thought.

Also, I think what age you were when you discovered the CAR-15 matters. I was born at the tail end of Vietnam so I grew up with the CAR-15 is all of the post-war action movies of the early 80s. I've got enough modern AR variants - I love re-creating the classics. Plus the CAR-15 with the A2, etc, is just so bad-ass.

 

[JRT]

Looks like the Colt Commando CAR-15 line had no hard and fast standard since they were farting around with trying to figure out how to do it.

M16 rifle series - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

www.imfdb.org

OP posted one of the pics from here already, but the 607, 609, 610, etc all have differences. I'd say pick one, see if you can find the parts for that one, and if so go from there. If not pick another one.

Colt was selling the retro line for full blown rape prices and Colt being Colt they made like 8 of them and sold out instantly since their main business goal is going out of business.

XM177E2 Colt's Manufacturing LLC

The upper for that can be bought here Colt XM177E2 / GAU-5A/A / CAR-15 / model 629, 630 Commando / US Air Force (1967-1970)


The Colt classic rifle itself can still be found on gunbroker Colt XM177E2 AR-15 Retro Reissue Carbine 5.56 NATO AR15 16” 20+1... - Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com : 906813504

Thanks for the upper link, I think I will buy the upper and build out the lower since I have lowers already approved for SBR and lots of parts. I also hate putting uppers together.

$2,750 is outrageous for a complete rifle with nothing really special in the build except the look. I have a Colt lower if I really want authentic I could use that.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I’m not sure why but the A1 stock really put the hook in me. I think the right answer is probably the collapsible, it was supposed to be short overall. Like @C. Stockwell pointed out upthread they are probably both correct. They moved to the collapsible to make it even smaller which is probably the design intent.

From a logistics, big picture point of view, a collapsible stock allows for making the carbine as small as possible when stowed (in a vehicle, in a rack), but then offers the ability to set the correct LOP for the user, including users wearing body armor.

If I remember right, the collapsible stock version was right for the intervention in Panama era, so late 80s, early 90s. Larry Vickers has a few videos on the CAR-15.

 

[Dench]

Thanks for the upper link, I think I will buy the upper and build out the lower since I have lowers already approved for SBR and lots of parts. I also hate putting uppers together.

$2,750 is outrageous for a complete rifle with nothing really special in the build except the look. I have a Colt lower if I really want authentic I could use that.

I bought one of the recent Colt military clone runs of a M16A4, my old rifle. Even though mine was a FN its still close enough


Only problems are the colt premium and it saying "carbine" on the lower

Colt is retarded

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I bought one of the recent Colt military clone runs of a M16A4, my old rifle. Even though mine was a FN its still close enough


Only problems are the colt premium and it saying "carbine" on the lower

Colt is retarded

"Carbine-ish"

 

[Picton]

From a logistics, big picture point of view, a collapsible stock allows for making the carbine as small as possible when stowed (in a vehicle, in a rack), but then offers the ability to set the correct LOP for the user, including users wearing body armor.

If I remember right, the collapsible stock version was right for the intervention in Panama era, so late 80s, early 90s. Larry Vickers has a few videos on the CAR-15.

They had it in Vietnam, by LRS/SF types, and I doubt it saw much greater use in Panama. The Rio Hato pics I’ve seen show plenty of fixed stocks, and those guys would have gotten them first. Certainly the Mogadishu Rangers had mostly fixed stocks. Until the M4 (which Division got around 1997), almost nobody in the conventional Army saw telescoping stocks I’d imagine.

Providing for body armor was never a thing until the GWOT. Stowage was everything. Most of us closed the stock when jumping as well, though I don’t recall that being a requirement. We got flak vests when we deployed in 1999 and nobody messed with their M4 stocks. We just wedged them in beside the vests at normal stock extension.

 

[dw617]

The January issue of American Rifleman had a great article on these rifles. Might be worth a peak.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Behind Enemy Lines With The CAR-15 Rifle

During the Vietnam War, Special Forces soldiers of the Studies and Observation Group fought a secret war behind enemy lines with the CAR-15— or XM177E2—the granddaddy of today’s M4 carbine.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[PATRON]

I want to build out a CAR 15 type AR. What are your thoughts on the correct stock, I see lots of pics of both out on the internet, I'm interested in your thoughts. Give me a comment on your hand guard preference if you feel inclined.

I'm feeling fixed stock with the round hand guard. Classy twenty round mags of course!

View attachment 507330
View attachment 507331

The top one is an model 607,and that stock is not fixed.There is a guy who makes them,but are not cheap going for around $400

 

[Dench]

"Carbine-ish"

They probably made a shit load of stripped lowers for some carbine length rifle, then decided to use those as spare lowers for full length rifle builds.

had they actually stamped the lowers with what the rifle was trying to clone the consensus is the collector value would be a lot higher. The FN M16A4 clones are pretty collectable, as they didnt mail it in when they made them.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

They had it in Vietnam, by LRS/SF types, and I doubt it saw much greater use in Panama. The Rio Hato pics I’ve seen show plenty of fixed stocks, and those guys would have gotten them first. Certainly the Mogadishu Rangers had mostly fixed stocks. Until the M4 (which Division got around 1997), almost nobody in the conventional Army saw folding stocks I’d imagine.

Providing for body armor was never a thing until the GWOT. Stowage was everything. Most of us closed the stock when jumping as well, though I don’t recall that being a requirement. We got flak vests when we deployed in 1999 and nobody messed with their M4 stocks. We just wedged them in beside the vests at normal stock extension.

...except Larry Vickers was in Panama.
...and he had a CAR-15 with a collapsible stock.

BCM Gunfighter History - Vol 1: The SCUD Hunter Carbine - Soldier Systems Daily

 

[Picton]

...except Larry Vickers was in Panama.
...and he had a CAR-15 with a collapsible stock.

BCM Gunfighter History - Vol 1: The SCUD Hunter Carbine - Soldier Systems Daily

“Much greater.”

Of course they were there. They weren’t widespread in the conventional army. Delta always had CARs, even in Desert One.

 

[JRT]

The top one is an model 607,and that stock is not fixed.There is a guy who makes them,but are not cheap going for around $400View attachment 507375

I was not aware that stock existed, I wonder how solid it is.

 

[Cur]

@Whiskeywon might know a thing or 3.

 

[Whiskeywon]

I was not aware that stock existed, I wonder how solid it is.

It’s solid but requires you to mill into the lower to make it compatible. I have an original and they’re fantastic. The repro doesn’t require you to mill the lower.

We’re talking about a 607 versus XM177E2 which is just an evolution.

If this is your first retro rifle honesty just go with the XM177E2, E1 or GAU-5 depending which one tickles you the most. Not saying don’t build a 607 but it is 100% the most expensive to make.
E2 11.5” (functionally the best model hence it’s longevity and parts life) Forward assist on most.
E1 10.5”
GAU-5 10.5”
607 10" (you'll have to cut down a 10.5")
GAU and E1 are often the same rifle. Biggest difference being that the E1 can “technically” have a forward assist though 99% didn’t.

If you’re in need as well I have stocks of a good portion of parts for a lot of these. Or access to a great many.

@Whiskeywon might know a thing or 3.

View: https://youtu.be/I38pIAEL0i0

 

[Whiskeywon]

As long as it has a 20-rounder and an A1 carry handle, that’s the important part.

Well kind of. You can’t build out a xm177Ex or a colt 723 and tell me it’s a 607. But as long as youre channeling whatever your goal was? We’re good.

but yes people get hung up on brands for some things and I find that to be unhealthy unless you have unrestricted access or a very permissible budget.

My only quirk about retro carbines is seeing them with with braces.
As far as the plastic stock that was used much later. A good metal reproduction is under $100.