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High Power - Getting Started

Damn, those NATO chambers use awfully long throats, now I understand.

For those who don't know this, the less "jump" for the bullet in the throat, the better the accuracy. I've actually seated bullets about .010" into the rifling in Bench guns.
 
That's a really good read, thanks. I disagree with his thesis that there's no difference between .015" and .035" clearance. Try it in an extremely accurate bolt gun, and you'll see the difference.
 
TonyD said:
He's not talking about a bolt gun. He's talking about bullet jump for magazine length rounds.
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Yup, I realized that. He stated that there was no significant difference in accuracy between .015" and .035" clearance. I disagree with that, based on my personal experiences. It definitely shows up in a 13 1/2 pound bolt gun in .22 and 6mm calibers, be it 223, 219 Wasp, 22 PPC, 6 PPC or 6x47. Since AR's can be made to shoot almost as good, it HAS to affect them as well.
 
Take that 13 1/2 lb. bolt gun (which is lighter than my AR) and shoot two 10 round strings off-hand at 200 yards and tell me if there's any difference.

He's not talking about .015 or .035 off the lands. He's talking about magazine length rounds that have a COAL of 2.260". The actual "jump" is a hell of lot longer than .035.

As he states, the only time it has a measurable difference is loading the 80 grain rounds to about .010 off the lands in the 600 prone.
 
I've jumped to my own conclusion that once bullet-jump exceeds a few thousandths I'm not sure it matters. Jumping .015" isn't going to help much more than jumping .035".
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Oh, he was actually talking about jumping in the throat. I can't believe that .020" extra clearance in the mag would amount to anything. Besides, I thought everybody single fed their ammo into the chamber during prone slow fire at 600 and 1000.

I'll agree that it won't make any difference in offhand, sitting, or kneeling scores. It can definitely affect a good prone shooter at longer distances (600 & 1000), and will definitely show up in a Bench Gun (that's the 13 1/2 pound reference, Heavy Varmint Class).
 
Nickle said:
I've jumped to my own conclusion that once bullet-jump exceeds a few thousandths I'm not sure it matters. Jumping .015" isn't going to help much more than jumping .035".
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Click to expand...

This would probably be better in the reloading forum but I'll try to make a few things even clearer (more confusing).

The measurements the author states as being the "chamber length" is incorrect. He's actually referring to the COAL as it pertains to the ogive profile of the 80 gr. SMK. Furthermore, COAL is an estimation. No one I know of measure to the tip of the bullet. That is the most inconsistent dimension and the tip of the bullet never touches the lands, anyway.

I have the Wylde chamber and I guarantee you it's not 2.445". If it was, I could shoot a 3 inch round out of it. The actual size of my chamber is 2.981 less my comparator length of 1.003. So, from the closed bolt face to the lands is actually 1.978" The average length of the 80 SMK is about 1/2" from ogive to tip. It gives me a COAL of 2.485 for my 80 SMK's when I set it back .005 - .006 off the lands.

My 75 gr HPBT's are magazine length and have over .100" of leade. .015" variation would have absolutely no affect on accuracy. However, consistency would.
 
Yeah, I caught the chamber length reference myself, and I did know he was talking OAL or COAL.

I think you and I are on the same sheet of music, so to say.

And, just so you know, I actually do measure the real OAL. I use it to duplicate a load that I already figured the correct seating depth on, and I also use it to make sure the ammo goes through the mag. I don't use my bolt gun much anymore, so I haven't worried about much, other than fitting the mag's.

My M14 and RomAK 3 are the only guns I intend to use for long range, and both of them run out of mag length before the bullets touch the rifling. I could use my AR for long range, but why would I, considering I have the other guns.
 
I only check the COAL to make sure it's less than 2.260". Because of tip deformations mine are usually in the neighborhood of 2.255. My seating depth to ogive will only vary by .0005 but the COAL will vary as much as .003 - .004.
 
TonyD said:
I only check the COAL to make sure it's less than 2.260". Because of tip deformations mine are usually in the neighborhood of 2.255. My seating depth to ogive will only vary by .0005 but the COAL will vary as much as .003 - .004.
Click to expand...

I cheat, and use a Wilson hand seater for match ammo. It contacts the bullet way out on the ogive, and compensates for differences in the bullets.

I've never used the Stony Point setup, and doubt I will, since I'm stuck in the old way, steel wool and trial and error. I'm sure you're old enough to remember that method.
 
Well, I found out some good news today. Friend of mine is going to help me break into 200 yd Off hand shooting at Old Colony. Also gonna teach me the basics of reloading and give me a heads up instead of just going out on my own. And the nice thing, got some rilfes for it already so my initial investment to start shooting will be a lot lower. And, as a bonus, he has an FFL and has a High Standard Trophy that he's gonna hold for me.
 
Nickle said:
TonyD said:
I only check the COAL to make sure it's less than 2.260". Because of tip deformations mine are usually in the neighborhood of 2.255. My seating depth to ogive will only vary by .0005 but the COAL will vary as much as .003 - .004.
Click to expand...

I cheat, and use a Wilson hand seater for match ammo. It contacts the bullet way out on the ogive, and compensates for differences in the bullets.

I've never used the Stony Point setup, and doubt I will, since I'm stuck in the old way, steel wool and trial and error. I'm sure you're old enough to remember that method.
Click to expand...

My LEE Dead Length seater does the same thing. I think all bullet seaters use the Ogive. However, you have to have a means to measure from the Ogive in order to set up the correct depth and to periodically check to make sure your rounds are seating the same.
 
This is my first year of highpower/service rifle.
Started with:
M1A standard with minor mods
Field jacket and sweatshirt (shot with just a t-shirt a couple times)
Stretchy leather MRT sling
Army work glove with liner
cheap straight lens spotting scope
zippo lighter for sight black
five gallon pail for stool
Handloads using 155 Palmas
Shot mid-70s

Finishing with:
M1A with most NM mods to indlude bedding (Angus Arms http://www.angusarms.com ) except for match barrel. That will be my x-mas gift to myself, the match barrel.
Creedmor shooting jacket ($100 model)
Biothane sling
Creedmor shooting glove (fingerless)
cheap straight lens spotting scope
zippo lighter
Creedmore stool
Handloads using 168smks.
Shot mid to upper-80s

What would I change??
Stiffer jacket for offhand
Glove with a hard back of some sort. 600s make my fingers numb
angled lens scope and maybe a decent stand
heavy match barrel

I'm having a blast anyhoot.
 
Robert - The first thing I'd do (and did) is get a better shooting jacket. That will make the biggest difference in your off-hand scores. Any glove that's comfortable will work.

Follow that with a match barrel and decent scope stand.

Good shooting!
 
New Heavy Jacket. The off-hand scores will come up. Like Tony said, get new barrel if you still want to shoot that M1A. I would consider buying a Match AR15 Service Rifle. That will also help your off-hand and rapid fire scores.
 
A stiffer jacket is probably next on my list to purchase. I'll probably also get a different glove for off-hand. As well as more ammo for practice, good thing I won some on Saturday. :D

CD
 
Considering you taught Brent & seeing his scores I should probably trade you the ammo for some lessons!
 
If Hampden can get Shawn McKenna to do a clinic, I would suggest you try and make it. There are a lot of things Shawn can show you that will improve your scores. He is a very good shooter.

If you want to drive down here, I'd be glad to show you what works for me.
 
Forgot about the mat.
Started with an exercise mat but my elbow would slide around after every shot in rapid prones.
New one from Creedmor with extra padding works great.
Only problem is, I need to find a way to make the bottom non-skid too.
When I go from standing to prone in the rapids, Army training takes over and I sort of "dive for cover." [shock]
This causes the mat to skid across the ground like a sled.
I either have to make it non-skid, or slow down
:D
BUT
It is a heap-ton better than an exercise mat
 
Just use a couple of tent stakes on the straps in the back. :D

Actually from what I've read and been trying to practice; your feet should never really move. You should drop to your knees and let your body roll forward right back into the same position you were in during prep.

Derek should be able to explain it better or correctly. :)

CD
 
Derek,

I'll keep an eye out for Shawn heading out this way. I may also take you up on that offer, although with everything that's been going on this year it may have to wait until the spring. Unless the Shootoberfest is a weekend that works out for me, then we talk a bit there. Never had any formal training with High Power, just started shooting it and buying stuff last year & reading a bunch of stuff.

CD
 
When ever you get free time. If it's next spring maybe we can plan on a practice day at Reading with Brent and some others.
 

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