"High-Power" Rifle Decision

[ChevyGuy91]

This is my same line of thinking in wanting a larger caliber rifle. Not because I need it, but because I want to explore options and have the ability to expand upon my experiences with firearms. My options seem largely entry level, RPR not withstanding, and others have made great suggestions like the Savage 110. At this point I’m leaning heavily towards bolt action, if only to slow the consumption of ammo and toy with different rounds/bullet weights. The ability to shoot accurately out to 800 yards is highly appealing and at some point I’d like to pop my 1000 yard cherry. As such, a rifle to grow into like a Tikka, Savage, or RPR, means I have a platform that I can add to(bipods, ridiculous glass) and not feel like a total dork punching holes in paper at 100 yards. Which is difficult, because I am by and large a total dork.

I appreciate all of the info, options, and opinions. Keep ‘em coming.

If I could do everything over again, I would still be shooting the same 308 bolt rifle I should have bought years ago and upgraded over time instead of buying all the retarded guns over the years with what ever justification I had at the time.

I know everyone likes to say there is no where in NE to shoot mid-long range, but that is just not true anymore. There is the Minute Man PRL that shoots are 3 or 4 different locations from 600-1200+, Ridgeline for real precision and long range rifle training, shit there is a 500 yard rifle range run by the town of Dartmouth MA. If you really want to scratch the itch, go to Sig, they will let you lob rounds into a target at 1000 yards for $200 if all you want is bragging rights.

Buy a good bolt rifle, it's the smartest play.

 

[greencobra]

I appreciate all of the info, options, and opinions. Keep ‘em coming.

never settle, continue to save and buy exactly what you want. want a .308, buy a .308. i rarely ask people for opinions when i buy guns and never bought junk buying what i really wanted.

 

[308rifleman]

I'm going to have to agree with the Frenchman. Savage rifles get looked over pretty often. But they are great rifles for not much invested. The barrels are famous for being great shooters. And the accutrigger is really good out of the box. You mentioned that money is tight, so you could go the route of a savage axis. You'd get the accutrigger, good barrel, and a good shooting rifle in a floppy plastic stock for very little money. My 6.5 creedmoor started that way. I simply swapped out the cheap plastic stock for a boyds stock. And it's just right. If you are feeling the need, the stock can be sent to CDI and inletted for their bottom metal, so that it would accept AICS mags. I'm very satisfied with this setup. And I didn't go the CDI route, but I'm also less than $400 invested into this whole rifle package.

I am working on building an AR-10 right now as well. And even living in AZ, the parts are much more expensive than I'd like. I've also had a PTR-91. And though it's a really fun rifle, they didn't mention you will pour through .308 ammo pretty quickly. Also the fluted chamber will crinkle the brass pretty well. It "is" reloadable a few more times. (if you can find it.) The running joke in the german army was the G3 threw brass so far on design so that you can fight in two directions at the same time.

I chose stainless Savage AXIS because I wanted a rugged rifle for short $$$. I bought two of them; .308 and .223. Leupold 3X-9X mounted on each. When my older daughter fully masters her Savage Mk II .22 rifle, I will let her fire the .223. She is getting well-acquainted with bolt-action.

 

[powerman]

Going with your first comment about money being tight as a priority. I would check and consider a Savage 110 Tactical. Much less money than the choices you listed, high precision and easy to carry around. There is a comparable Mossberg but I have found Mossberg rifles to give inconsistent accuracy - some good, some awful.

Any savage 110 with Accutriger with scope package. picked one up at Kittery a few years ago for $500 with basic synthetic stock
Backup to M1A and scout squad riffles, lots of 7.62 /308 around

 

[powerman]

I chose stainless Savage AXIS because I wanted a rugged rifle for short $$$. I bought two of them; .308 and .223. Leupold 3X-9X mounted on each. When my older daughter fully masters her Savage Mk II .22 rifle, I will let her fire the .223. She is getting well-acquainted with bolt-action.

that's what I did, bought one in .223 at same time. accutrigger in 223 and wood stock was like 399. the wifes gun

 

[Mountain]

On a budget, you say? You'll need to keep in mind how expensive it might be to feed whatever you choose. I think that Savage 110 tactical that was already mentioned is a great choice. Semi? If you want accuracy, you'll want an AR-308. Spend $ on a good barrel and bolt combo and MOA accuracy is fairly easy with reloads and/or match factory ammo. I EFA10'd my AR-308 build in 6.5 CM about a week before Healy dropped all that nonsense, coming in under the wire by days. Up to you regarding how to have an AR-308 now.

Starting with barreled receivers, I've built both a M1 in 308 as well as a M1A. The M1A was more challenging to build, and both are more challenging than a Lego gun aka AR. Building a highly accurate M1 or M1A isn't a beginner project and takes time, research, and some coaching to do it right. Buying a highly accurate 308 M1 or M1A usually requires a special order process and some fairly serious cash.

Savage 110 Tactical ~$500
CMP 308 Special $1250 (they only have IHC version available)
Accurate AR-308 build ~$900 bare minimum, if you can even do it
M1A accurized ~$2000+

The Savage will be significantly more accurate than all the others. If you don't reload, consider how quickly you might be pulling the trigger on a $emi.

 

[McReef]

This is correct.
While I completely understand that a .308 and or any thing larger than a .22 is largely wasted at 100-200 yards on paper, there’s a reason I own a motorcycle and that sports cars exist. The purpose of said vehicles is not to drive at 180 mph all the time, but to have that power in reserve should you
“Need” it. They’re impractical and a hell of a lot of fun.
This is my same line of thinking in wanting a larger caliber rifle. Not because I need it, but because I want to explore options and have the ability to expand upon my experiences with firearms. My options seem largely entry level, RPR not withstanding, and others have made great suggestions like the Savage 110. At this point I’m leaning heavily towards bolt action, if only to slow the consumption of ammo and toy with different rounds/bullet weights. The ability to shoot accurately out to 800 yards is highly appealing and at some point I’d like to pop my 1000 yard cherry. As such, a rifle to grow into like a Tikka, Savage, or RPR, means I have a platform that I can add to(bipods, ridiculous glass) and not feel like a total dork punching holes in paper at 100 yards. Which is difficult, because I am by and large a total dork.

I appreciate all of the info, options, and opinions. Keep ‘em coming.

I am hesitant to post this, as I know folks can get their dander up when it comes to this brand vs that brand stuff, and they have a bit of a following on here, but I guess I’ll just throw it out there, and take my flames as they come...

I have heard, unfounded or not, that Savage can be a bit hit or miss in the quality department. I can’t speak to the accuracy of this. You know how it is in this game with loyalties and biases. I will say that my research steered me away from that route.

 

[Tinkermatic]

never settle, continue to save and buy exactly what you want. want a .308, buy a .308. i rarely ask people for opinions when i buy guns and never bought junk buying what i really wanted.

This is sound advice and something I already try to do. Unfortunately, I’m still relatively new to all of this as I’ve only had my LTC for a year, so relying on the opinions and experiences of the rest of you all is a valuable tool, for the most part, sometimes.

For instance. Spending $750 on a C308 isn’t a drop in the bucket for me and at that price, I’d expect an emoticon of quality. I had my suspicions and they were confirmed by multiple people in this thread. While I want a Springfield M1A, if I can scratch that itch with a quality, reliable, reasonably priced rifle in the meantime, that’s something I’m ok with. I appreciate quality and do my research, I’m also inpatient and unversed in anything bolt action other than a .22. That’s a bad combination.
It’s a matter of knowing what values are true values, and which ones are to be passed up. It’s all opinion, but sometimes even NES comes to agreement. My biggest fear is buying a gun I’d regret.

It’s looking more and more like a Savage or Tikka will get me in the door at a reasonable price, have good build quality, and leave room for moving out to longer ranges quite easily. The RPR comes with more adjustability, at a price, but may allow for more room to grow. Used ones are reasonable and available.

I guess I’ve narrowed it down to 3 options?

 

[widnerkj]

I am hesitant to post this, as I know folks can get their dander up when it comes to this brand vs that brand stuff, and they have a bit of a following on here, but I guess I’ll just throw it out there, and take my flames as they come...

I have heard, unfounded or not, that Savage can be a bit hit or miss in the quality department. I can’t speak to the accuracy of this. You know how it is in this game with loyalties and biases. I will say that my research steered me away from that route.

I have not experienced this. Other's mileage may very. I've also only had and or shot about 5 savage bolt guns. I will say my chief gripe with the savage bolt guns are the heavy bolt lift. It's a fact of life with them. It's not going to be like dad's weatherby or old model 70, those two feel like rolling a a ball bering across oil coated glass, slick. There is one guy on the savage forums that has a bolt service that everyone raves about. And on the older ones there was a modification with a ball bering in the primer pocket of a .38 case. But I've just accepted the heavy bolt lift. I think I remember hearing about those railed out "tacticool" models having weird issues. But that's all I can remember. Once seriously nice thing, is barrel swaps on that savage action wont require cutting threads on a lathe. You buy a replacement, and headspace gauge. Barrel nut torques off kinda like an AR.

 

[mac1911]

Not to shabby for under $1000
SAVAGE 10 FCP PRE OWNED | Kittery Trading Post

 

[92G]

My personal order for short action 308:
Howa 1500 - hands down winner, best design, replaceable extractor, simply awesome.
Ruger American - solid design, less accurate than other options but aftermarket support now booming.
Tikka T3 - great action but I find ejection system weak, mags are imported some are unobtainium.
Savage short action - shoot almost as well as a howa but action not as slick.
Rem 700 - garbage.

Save $$ for a chassis like an XLR as will likely want that down the road

Not to shabby for under $1000
SAVAGE 10 FCP PRE OWNED | Kittery Trading Post

In typical KTP fashion is horribly overpriced. Mags for the 10 FCP are pricy. The savage short action is a good starting point for a build but Savage OEM doo dads or upgrades are junk. Cabela’s sells a specific savage model the 12 FV on sale they role out for like $350. I also have one in the classifieds.

 

[Queen Bee]

Tikka or Howa would be my first choice.

AR10 would be my choice for a semi auto ona. Budget. I agree that the AR10 is not an AR15 and build your own.

 

[42!]

I happen to walk in on that conversation at LGS.
Legal status aside, the owner was telling the customer he is not going to sell any semi auto with detach mags that shares any trigger or bolt parts. He went on to say if and when the AG decides to bust LGS balls no matter what the law says it cost the shop money when the AG comes poking around.

So if I manufacture an AR-10 lower with on pin offset just enough so an AR-15 trigger group won't work he'll sell the rifle? I just might be able to arrange that. But I need a commitment.

 

[Coyote33]

I like the Tikka, but this is hard to beat:
$1199
Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM .308 Win Kryptek Highlander Rifle - AA9613

 

[Ultimate Shield]

For a .308 bolt gun my vote would go to the Remington 700 Milspec 5R (Yeah I know Remington sucks blah blah)

I absolutely love my 24" one. Might even be my fav in my collection right now; def my favorite modern one at the least. Comes in a HS Precision stock. The 5R rifling makes it super easy to clean too. I got .5-.75 MOA out of the box using Federal GMM 168gr and consistently am able to get sub .5MOA since I put the Timney trigger in it. Super fun to shoot quarter sized targets with. I really gotta start reloading for it
The 700P is the non-stainless/non-5r rifled version and can be had for a bit less but also touts great accuracy.

 

[drgrant]

Was an initial option, actually looked at CMP. This is a bucket list gun(if they don't run out) for sure, but at this point I'm trying to be practical. I'm trying to scratch multiple itches with 1 firearm and it's proving to be a difficult task.

If I was going to be like "I want something that shoots big bullets but I dont have an actual, serious reason to actually buy something like that" an M1 Garand would be at absolute the top of the list....

Why?

-Ammo isn't impossibly expensive (yet)
-It's fun to shoot just with the irons on it, so you don't have to commit to glass, which means that you don't have to worry about being a skinflint retard on glass (and then getting punished for it on the back end for flinting).
-It's soft shooting offhand compared to most bolt action 308 and 30-06 rifles.
-It's timeless. Most milsurps do basically nothing for me but there is something about an M1...
-If for some bizarre reason you don't like it, you'll get most or all of your money back.

Find one in decent shape, with one of the upgraded triggers (eg like an NM trigger) and you'll be glad you
didn't mess with the rest of that crap, especially if this is just for recreational purposes. It will get "it" out of
your system in one dose.

The rest of that stuff on your list you would shoot it a few times and then it's just going to collect dust in your
safe. If you own an M1 Garand you will basically look for excuses to at least bring it out a few times a
year.

-Mike

 

[BigGreen2000]

Speaking of M1's: what is most critical to accuracy besides barrel, trigger, and sights? Do NM op rods, gas cylinders, bolts, etc make a difference?

 

[Whiskeywon]

Speaking of M1's: what is most critical to accuracy besides barrel, trigger, and sights? Do NM op rods, gas cylinders, bolts, etc make a difference?

I’d say the bolt is probably one of the most important in ensuring mechanical accuracy by providing perfect lockup and allowing for maximum repeatability and engagement surface.

 

[widnerkj]

Also, there are a few other .308's not mentioned worth looking for if you can find them somewhere on the used gun rack.
1.) Styer Scout rifle
2.) Ruger gunsite
3.) Old winchester model 88, or model 100. (I had a model 100, and dad still has a model 88) Super cool things if you can find them. 88 is a levergun, 100 is semi auto.
4.) Browning A bolt.

 

[SKumar]

Also, anything in 308, don't bother with a barrel under 18".

 

[92G]

Also, anything in 308, don't bother with a barrel under 18".

meh
compared to a 6.5 or 6mm, the .30 cal is relatively speaking barrel length-insensitive. while an 18 or 20" barrel is probably ideal, a 16" will get the job done just fine in 308. in comparison again anything in .24 or .27 caliber lose a ton of velocity at 16" barrel length. the major reason to avoid a 16" barrel in 308 is muzzle blast, otherwise the distance to trans-sonic (which is all that really matters) is maybe 50-100 yards difference at most.

it's a pretty simple phenomenon, cartridges with smaller bullet mass and/or higher pressures will benefit from longer barrel length. compared to other cartridges the .308 is (relatively) higher mass and lower pressure.

 

[powerman]

On a budget, you say? You'll need to keep in mind how expensive it might be to feed whatever you choose. I think that Savage 110 tactical that was already mentioned is a great choice. Semi? If you want accuracy, you'll want an AR-308. Spend $ on a good barrel and bolt combo and MOA accuracy is fairly easy with reloads and/or match factory ammo. I EFA10'd my AR-308 build in 6.5 CM about a week before Healy dropped all that nonsense, coming in under the wire by days. Up to you regarding how to have an AR-308 now.

Starting with barreled receivers, I've built both a M1 in 308 as well as a M1A. The M1A was more challenging to build, and both are more challenging than a Lego gun aka AR. Building a highly accurate M1 or M1A isn't a beginner project and takes time, research, and some coaching to do it right. Buying a highly accurate 308 M1 or M1A usually requires a special order process and some fairly serious cash.

Savage 110 Tactical ~$500
CMP 308 Special $1250 (they only have IHC version available)
Accurate AR-308 build ~$900 bare minimum, if you can even do it
M1A accurized ~$2000+

The Savage will be significantly more accurate than all the others. If you don't reload, consider how quickly you might be pulling the trigger on a $emi.

Also, there are a few other .308's not mentioned worth looking for if you can find them somewhere on the used gun rack.
1.) Styer Scout rifle
2.) Ruger gunsite
3.) Old winchester model 88, or model 100. (I had a model 100, and dad still has a model 88) Super cool things if you can find them. 88 is a levergun, 100 is semi auto.
4.) Browning A bolt.

from first "If you don't reload, consider how quickly you might be pulling the trigger on a $emi."
YES reloading 308 you need to do and one of the easyest to do, powder adds up to $ since it uses so much. but burn rate with semi and 20rd mags goes so faster.

Second quote with other good candidates /concepts, ie "Scout Rife", ruger gun site concept/configuration maybe where we are heading.

 

[mac1911]

Just looking for a home

Also, there are a few other .308's not mentioned worth looking for if you can find them somewhere on the used gun rack.
1.) Styer Scout rifle
2.) Ruger gunsite
3.) Old winchester model 88, or model 100. (I had a model 100, and dad still has a model 88) Super cool things if you can find them. 88 is a levergun, 100 is semi auto.
4.) Browning A bolt.

 

[mac1911]

My personal order for short action 308:
Howa 1500 - hands down winner, best design, replaceable extractor, simply awesome.
Ruger American - solid design, less accurate than other options but aftermarket support now booming.
Tikka T3 - great action but I find ejection system weak, mags are imported some are unobtainium.
Savage short action - shoot almost as well as a howa but action not as slick.
Rem 700 - garbage.

Save $$ for a chassis like an XLR as will likely want that down the road



In typical KTP fashion is horribly overpriced. Mags for the 10 FCP are pricy. The savage short action is a good starting point for a build but Savage OEM doo dads or upgrades are junk. Cabela’s sells a specific savage model the 12 FV on sale they role out for like $350. I also have one in the classifieds.

IDK for $875 seems ok
Whats a new 10 series with accu trigger go for? $500 im not saying Monarch scopes are nice but they seem to fetch $600 or so.
Bipod $50-100 depending on make.
Looks like a harris?
Just a quick scan of KTP and thought that was not terrible to jump imto the game.
Now if the same rifle and scope can be had for much less ...I will take 2

 

[DW357]

Speaking of M1's: what is most critical to accuracy besides barrel, trigger, and sights? Do NM op rods, gas cylinders, bolts, etc make a difference?

Stock fitment. @mac1911

 

[widnerkj]

OP, contact Mac1911 about that winchester model 88. I want that. But you two are in MA. And I might find one at the crossroads of the west gunshow this season. Otherwise.... seriously intrested Mac.... that 88 is a perfect stalk hunting rifle.

 

[eboos]

It’s hard to argue that an AR-10 variant is a copy or duplicate of an AR-15, when the AR-10 existed first. The AR-10 derivatives do not violate the letter, nor the intent of the AWB list. The AR-15 derivatives aren’t copies or duplicates either, but AR-10 variants are even more clearly not copies or duplicates. You will be hard pressed to get an FFL to transfer you one, but you could build an 80%er if you’re willing to take the risk of wrongful prosecution.

The AR-10 as available today was introduced by Eagle Arms in the mid 90's and is not based on the original AR-10 design. Instead it is an upscaled AR-15. Having a legacy moniker does not make it exempt.

 

[Mountain]

Speaking of M1's: what is most critical to accuracy besides barrel, trigger, and sights? Do NM op rods, gas cylinders, bolts, etc make a difference?

No need for NM op rod, and op rod pistons almost never wear out. Just make sure not bent and that 'tabs' that engage receiver are not overly worn. Gas cylinder should be in spec. So long as bolt headspaces properly to chamber, virtually no accuracy to gain there. As above mentioned, stock fitment is very important. Also cylinder lock should 'time' so that the gas cylinder assembly is tight. Use a solid gas cylinder screw plug. Lastly, a good barrel should be chambered to fit decent ammo, not loosely for lowest bidder milsurp ammo.

If you are not going to compete in as-issued competition, do a search for M1 National Match modifications.

 

[H-minus]

the major reason to avoid a 16" barrel in 308 is muzzle blast

No argument there. My 16" AR 10 clears my sinuses better than a doubleshot of Flonase.

 

[mac1911]

Speaking of M1's: what is most critical to accuracy besides barrel, trigger, and sights? Do NM op rods, gas cylinders, bolts, etc make a difference?

With out getting to crazy and cash outlay
A very good fitting stock, make sure any parts that are supposed to be tight are. A good crisp trigger and good ammo go a long way.