HK USP 45

[Fastcivic1]

Am intrested in HK USP 45, full size. I wanna know what u guys think as far as ownership. I handled one before a long time ago, but I never had a chance to fire it. I never owned an HK either so am curious to know. I know they have a great reputation just like Sigs and Glocks. Please no bashing on other brands by fanboys(no pun intended). I just wanna know your experience with this particular pistol, the positives and negatives. I do own a Glock and Sig, and love em both, and I think the HK would look great in my collection. As far as the trigger squeeze/ break, magazine release being in an odd spot, felt recoil and all the good stuff.

 

[drgrant]

I've owned 3 different guns based on the USP .45 platform... and almost every USP variant ever made except for the 9mms and the Expert. ) this is basically the deal...

Pros:
Accurate
Easy to clean/maintain
Highly corrosion/abuse resistant slide finish.
Eats any ammunition except lead (and if you cast your own, you can probably get it to do that, too)
Can fire stupidly hot .45 ACP ammo without damage.
Very Reliable


Cons:
Often overpriced in MA (although for a standard, bone stock USP 45F you should be able to get one of those for under $800)
DA trigger sucks without work. (usually gritty and crunchy) Even when fixed, it's still somewhat worse than a Beretta with a D mainspring in it. )
ALL the magazines (even just the 10 rounders) are stupidly expensive at usually $50 a pop.
If you don't have the hands of a gorilla, you won't be able to hang onto it, in between its large grip size and its high bore axis.
The gun is WIDE, so concealing it isn't easy.
You can forget about finding parts locally. You can also forget about anyone doing work on them locally, other than installing sights. No gunsmith will touch them.

A Glock 21 (any revision) or an M&P .45 is a far, far better value. They are both way easier to control and have way more options in regards to the trigger weight/feel. Mags are also cheaper for both, and with the Glock you can get Preban 13 round mags, whereas with the USP finding preban 12s is difficult. (and there is some controversy over whether they existed at all, but those of us who have studied the issue know they do indeed exist. )

I finally sold the last of my USP .45's a few months ago. It took me awhile but I finally realized that I was fighting a losing battle. They just suck for people with small hands.

-Mike

 

[Fastcivic1]

Drgrant, first off your da man, and second, so is it worth it? Having owned 3, there's something that really attracts you to them

 

[Another_David]

Drgrant is spot on. Coolness factor is high; practicality factor is low. You might just have to buy one and get it out of your system--that's what I did. Then sold it a couple years later. It happens.

 

[drgrant]

Drgrant, first off your da man, and second, so is it worth it? Having owned 3, there's something that really attracts you to them

I bought them because I was an HK addict, of sorts... and they always just worked. Once I started playing with other guns though, I discovered that there were a lot of .45s that just worked.

Another thing to keep in mind is when I got most of my USPs, the XD .45, the M&P .45, and the G21SF and Gen4s, didn't even exist yet. So at the time there were not a lot of choices for those wanting a double stack, polymer framed .45. In that regard the USP series is sort of past its prime.

My advice would be to look into the alternatives if you can. If you have your heart set on an HK, and you have medium-large sized hands, you'll probably be pretty pleased... but you will be paying more and not really getting more than the alternatives.

If you really want an HK there is also the HK45. Going to be more expensive (and probably way harder to find in MA) than the USP series but ergonomically a hell of a lot nicer.

-Mike

 

[Fastcivic1]

Drgrant is spot on. Coolness factor is high; practicality factor is low. You might just have to buy one and get it out of your system--that's what I did. Then sold it a couple years later. It happens.

I agree, coolness factor is high, I bought the tetra gun cleaning kit and a DVD come with it. It had tips on how to clean your firearm. The gun he was using to demonstrate was a Usp, and I was like, man that's a nice gun

 

[Fastcivic1]

Drgrant, maybe your right. It could be passed its prime, but I do keep hearing alot of talk regarding XD, and good things too. It's been a gun I always over looked. Is the HK USP .40 any better in size, because I have medium size hands. I also handled but never shot a Glock 21, but didn't like it due to its big frame. Felt the grip was too big for me. I handled the gen4 version, which I liked better, but I wanna own something else, as I mentioned earlier, I own a Glock already. Something in .45 besides 1911(sorry 1911 guys, nothing agiant them but the 1911 I like are either too expensive or not Ma compliant)

 

[BIG1PUN]

Good info to know

I've owned 3 different guns based on the USP .45 platform... and almost every USP variant ever made except for the 9mms and the Expert. ) this is basically the deal...

Pros:
Accurate
Easy to clean/maintain
Highly corrosion/abuse resistant slide finish.
Eats any ammunition except lead (and if you cast your own, you can probably get it to do that, too)
Can fire stupidly hot .45 ACP ammo without damage.
Very Reliable


Cons:
Often overpriced in MA (although for a standard, bone stock USP 45F you should be able to get one of those for under $800)
DA trigger sucks without work. (usually gritty and crunchy) Even when fixed, it's still somewhat worse than a Beretta with a D mainspring in it. )
ALL the magazines (even just the 10 rounders) are stupidly expensive at usually $50 a pop.
If you don't have the hands of a gorilla, you won't be able to hang onto it, in between its large grip size and its high bore axis.
The gun is WIDE, so concealing it isn't easy.
You can forget about finding parts locally. You can also forget about anyone doing work on them locally, other than installing sights. No gunsmith will touch them.

A Glock 21 (any revision) or an M&P .45 is a far, far better value. They are both way easier to control and have way more options in regards to the trigger weight/feel. Mags are also cheaper for both, and with the Glock you can get Preban 13 round mags, whereas with the USP finding preban 12s is difficult. (and there is some controversy over whether they existed at all, but those of us who have studied the issue know they do indeed exist. )

I finally sold the last of my USP .45's a few months ago. It took me awhile but I finally realized that I was fighting a losing battle. They just suck for people with small hands.

-Mike

 

[DMan7]

I would stay away from a compact and .40 cal. Go 9mm for less felt recoil. I had a .40 compact and over time i decided it had a lot of bite for my liking. Too much. Then I shot a sig 226 9mm and it was like butter.

You should go up to Manchester Firing Line and rent one to know for sure.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I love my full size and never should have gotten rid of it. I think that is one that will haunt me for many years or till I get another or maybe jus leave this sucky state.

 

[Fastcivic1]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Yea I was thinking of doing that, going to Manchester range and rent it out. The problem I have with them is their, 'jacked up' prices for a lack of better term. Seeing from what you guys are saying, it's a 'hate it or love it' type of gun, one of which I must try before I buy [/FONT]

 

[drgrant]

Drgrant, maybe your right. It could be passed its prime, but I do keep hearing alot of talk regarding XD, and good things too. It's been a gun I always over looked. Is the HK USP .40 any better in size, because I have medium size hands.

I think the .40 full might be slightly smaller in the grip frame. I had one of those too and actually, that was the only one I sorta kinda regret getting rid of, because I shot pretty well with it. It will have less recoil than the .45 does, that's for sure. The HK recoil spring system in the .40 full kinda takes the edge off that annoying as hell "fast recoil spike" typically common in .40 S+W. The only real reason I got rid of that was because I made a decision to get rid of all my .40's, because none of them were getting used on a regular basis.

One other advantage with the .40 full is if you look around hard enough, the 10 round cripplemags for these guns are pretty affordable. Occasionaly you can find preban normal caps for these too, which I believe were 13 rounds, but you'll pay big money for them overall.

I also handled but never shot a Glock 21, but didn't like it due to its big frame. Felt the grip was too big for me. I handled the gen4 version, which I liked better, but I wanna own something else, as I mentioned earlier, I own a Glock already.

The G21SF and the Gen4 G21 feel a lot better. Not to mention if you want you can get a grip reduction on a regular G21- you could find a beater that works good and then have Lou @ Business End do a reduction for you on it to get rid of the hump.

The M&P .45 is also worthy of consideration, if you get one without a mag safety and get an apex kit in it. That's about the only M&P I'd consider buying in MA right now, given the magazine issue. (the native capacity of the M&P .45 is 10 rounds, so there are no neutered mags required).

I don't know how much shooting experience you have, and how often you get to go shooting, or whether or not you compete at all... but if you are going down that path, in 5 years or so from now you will wish you didn't have 5 different kinds of triggers in the safe. Right now the only abomination in my safe is a Ruger LCP, but for what I use that gun for, it doesn't matter much. I'm shooting a lot better, usually only having to go back and forth between Glocks and 1911s.

Some of it depends on your "purchasing rationale." When I started shooting I was more the "collector" type and I wanted to buy stuff that I thought was cool. The novelty of that has kinda worn off and now I tend to be more interested in gaining proficiency. Guns that don't lend themselves to me shooting better tend to get secondary consideration. I also have this thing where I don't like having guns in my safe that I don't shoot. I'd probably make an exception for a family heirloom or something, but anything else that tends to sit in my safe without getting used at least 1-3 times a year tends to get sold, as I just view that stuff as tying up money that could be put into something that I would shoot on a more regular basis.

Something in .45 besides 1911(sorry 1911 guys, nothing agiant them but the 1911 I like are either too expensive or not Ma compliant)

You can build any 1911 you want in MA (based off a bare frame) and there are a lot of good off the shelf choices, namely the S&W E series and the new Ruger SR1911 that just came out. Even if I lived in free america I would still be looking at those- they represent an incredible value for the money. Then if you have $2000-3000 burning a hole in your pocket for a high end custom, there are always SVIs, which have been MA-transferable for a long time.

Most of the "mid range" crap like Les Beer, MimBer, etc, is all overrated, with the possible exception of some of the 1911s that Springfield Armory makes. The only 1911s that I would want that we "can't get" in MA are Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, and on the cheaper end, the ones Dan Wesson makes. Everything else doesn't interest me... I'd rather just have a 1911 built out or take the S&W or the Ruger and build something off of that to meet my needs.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Yea I was thinking of doing that, going to Manchester range and rent it out. The problem I have with them is their, 'jacked up' prices for a lack of better term. Seeing from what you guys are saying, it's a 'hate it or love it' type of gun, one of which I must try before I buy

Go green (become a paid NES member, it's a whopping $21) and come to one of our shoots. There are usually a ton of HK (whatevers) that show up. Sometimes there is even a thread where folks discuss what guns they are bringing ahead of time. If you bring factory ammo in the appropriate caliber and ask politely, and act with safety, one of our members would probably be more than happy to let you test fire a gun at the shoot. I don't think there is another big shoot planned till spring or so, but if you are not in a rush this is probably the most cost effective way to try out a few guns in not much time. If you work it right you can shoot at some steel pistol targets or whatnot that get put downrange.

-Mike

 

[FREDDY401]

I can't really speak about the .45 but my cousin had a USP 9mm. One of my favorite handguns. Mag release is in a good spot and easy to use. I personally seen him put at least 2000 rounds thru it (and bought it used to begin with) with no feeding malfunctions, but he did break the trigger to the point where it was inoperable. He had to get it sent back to the HK factory to get fixed. If you looking to spend a little less, try looking at an FN FNP-45. It holds 14 rounds, it's reliable, recoil is a little more than a 9mm, and goes for about 600 down here in CT. The slide release is a little small but still works pretty good.

 

[BIG1PUN]

How did the trigger break was it your friend that did it or just happen

I can't really speak about the .45 but my cousin had a USP 9mm. One of my favorite handguns. Mag release is in a good spot and easy to use. I personally seen him put at least 2000 rounds thru it (and bought it used to begin with) with no feeding malfunctions, but he did break the trigger to the point where it was inoperable enough to sent back to HK to get fixed. If you looking to spend a little less, try looking at an FN FNP-45. It holds 14 rounds, it's reliable, recoil is a little more than a 9mm, and goes for about 600 down here in CT. The slide release is a little small but still works pretty good.

 

[drgrant]

How did the trigger break was it your friend that did it or just happen

If I was a betting man.... I'd bet that it was either the trigger bar or the sear spring, or for third place a busted firing pin. Although, depending on how the sear spring breaks you might end up with a gun that only works in a certain mode- for example, when one of mine went on a USP .40 Compact, basically the gun turned itself into a DAO. It would still fire but the hammer would come to rest against the hammer stop after every shot.

In relative terms these failures are rare, but they do happen. I think at one point or another HK had some bad part runs, too, but those are hard to nail down.

-Mike

 

[BIG1PUN]

I was thinking of getting a new hk usp 40c this week or next week you think Hk fixed the problems on there new firearms

If I was a betting man.... I'd bet that it was either the trigger bar or the sear spring, or for third place a busted firing pin. Although, depending on how the sear spring breaks you might end up with a gun that only works in a certain mode- for example, when one of mine went on a USP .40 Compact, basically the gun turned itself into a DAO. It would still fire but the hammer would come to rest against the hammer stop after every shot.

In relative terms these failures are rare, but they do happen. I think at one point or another HK had some bad part runs, too, but those are hard to nail down.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I was thinking of getting a new hk usp 40c this week or next week you think Hk fixed the problems on there new firearms

I think the odds of getting a defective USP are between slim and none. If anything on the whole HKs are pretty reliable. I did not mean to portray the failures I mentioned as being endemic.

That said, the DA trigger will still suck on it, but that's just a design issue more than anything else. If you are adept at firearm dis-assembly and GENTLE polishing of contact surfaces, it can be improved dramatically... and whatever you do, don't touch the sear mating surfaces on the hammer. A Wolff 12 pound mainspring also helps a little. Don't bother with the 10 pound, it's too light and will result in failures to fire.

-Mike

 

[Fastcivic1]

Drgrant, am relatively new shooter, I guess u can say that. Got my lisence back in July 10, and my first gun 2 month later. I used to go to the range every other week, twice a month. So you say am still in the "collection phase". Competitive shooting has always caught my eye, and would like to get more involved if possible, like IDPA, etc. And these gatherings sound good to attend, I will try to become green as soon as I can

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

If are dead set on owning an HK pistol product and you want it in 45 (MA surchage notwithstanding) take a good look at the HK45. Ergos are much improved over the USP.

Great summary Dr. Grant.

 

[Fastcivic1]

Just out of curiosity, are Wilson Combat 1911 Ma complaint?

 

[drgrant]

Just out of curiosity, are Wilson Combat 1911 Ma complaint?

No, and they probably never will be, unless the regs die some day. Then again, neither is the USP .45.

-Mike

 

[NHKevin]

I have a fullsize USP .45 and I love it. Hell, my girlfriend's first time ever shooting anything was with it:

[video=youtube_share;_Po5sIgGiRc]http://youtu.be/_Po5sIgGiRc[/video]

 

[Fastcivic1]

Manchester range am guessing? Nice shooting.

 

[Tim L]

I shot another members USP 45 a couple years ago at an informal NES gathering and liked it a lot.

 

[NHKevin]

Manchester range am guessing? Nice shooting.

Yes. Also - it wasn't her first time as I said above. Her first time was a few months prior - we rented a Glock 19 so I could show her the basics. The above was her second time. I spent a bunch of time at home showing her the fundamentals, but the important part is that once she got over the brief anxiety of shooting a gun, she had fun with it.

At any rate, being a new-ish green member I haven't been to any member shoots. If I had, I would certainly let you try out my USP as others mentioned above. It is a pistol that I am very happy with. If I was in the market now, I would look hard at an HK45. Since I have two custom holsters for my USP, it wouldn't be worth trading in my USP for an HK45. Someone else mentioned how they don't like the DA trigger pull. Since I personally only fire the first round DA and the rest SA, I don't have any issue with it. That and I'm not a good enough shot for it to make that much of a difference for me.

 

[Fanucman]

I have a USP45 full size. It is an excellent piece of engineering. I have put all kinds of ammo through it and do not recall it ever jamming. It cleans pretty easily and barely shows any wear despite having a few thousand rounds through it. 12rd mags for it are pricey though.

On the negative side, the grip is on the large side and my fingers are on the short side, so it gets difficult to control when my hands are tired (after shooting a while). I wish I had the time to work on my grip so I could control it better. I find other pistols more pleasant to shoot, but I cannot bring myself to get rid of it.

Some pistols are made for target shooting, some are made for hunting, some are made for concealed carry, some are made to be low cost, some are just made to look pretty. A USP ain't pretty, compact, or cheap. It is supremely reliable, reasonably accurate and extremely durable. Maybe it is just me, but I think when you hold a USP, you get the feeling that it was made for one purpose: to give you absolute confidence that it will blow a .45 hole in whatever (or whomever) you decide needs a new hole.

 

[Fastcivic1]

I have a USP45 full size. It is an excellent piece of engineering. I have put all kinds of ammo through it and do not recall it ever jamming. It cleans pretty easily and barely shows any wear despite having a few thousand rounds through it. 12rd mags for it are pricey though.

On the negative side, the grip is on the large side and my fingers are on the short side, so it gets difficult to control when my hands are tired (after shooting a while). I wish I had the time to work on my grip so I could control it better. I find other pistols more pleasant to shoot, but I cannot bring myself to get rid of it.

Some pistols are made for target shooting, some are made for hunting, some are made for concealed carry, some are made to be low cost, some are just made to look pretty. A USP ain't pretty, compact, or cheap. It is supremely reliable, reasonably accurate and extremely durable. Maybe it is just me, but I think when you hold a USP, you get the feeling that it was made for one purpose: to give you absolute confidence that it will blow a .45 hole in whatever (or whomever) you decide needs a new hole.

Good breakdown, the main purpose for this gun, is for range purposes. Just to take it to the range and have fun with it. Its a pistol that I always wanted to acquire. Like fanucman said, it's not pretty or sleek looking, but a great piece of engineering. For carry purposes, I would walk right pass it, but for the range, it's perfect

 

[Fastcivic1]

@NHKevin, do you go to bobs shooting in Salisbury?

 

[NHKevin]

@NHKevin, do you go to bobs shooting in Salisbury?

I'm not familiar with it but I don't yet have a Mass LTC.